Day one DLC?

[isometry]

I don't think they are immoral, but I do think they are stupid as businessmen, because they are sacrificing the future of their brand to try and make a quick buck now. Without brand loyalty they will sink like a stone, loyalty is the only reason people are even having a debate about DLC instead of just ignoring the entire game.

 

[linwolf]

The problem is not "I have to pay extra for a character", I don't have problem if they are good character. The problem is that day one DLC passes a massage and that massage is "We could have included that in the game but we decided to make a few extra bucks instead so suck it up, you worthless worm, we know you buy it anyway"

They did put it into the game. In the Collector's Edition. Which they told you they were going to do months ago.

So my options are pay more for it or pay more for it?

Yes, because it's elective content aka not necessary to beat the game, and expecting to get additional non-crucial content for free makes you sound like an entitled child. Speaking as a game artist in training, if I heard that people wanted me to put dozens of hours of effort into making a cool add-on, then have them expect to get it for free, I'd have a very strong urge to barbecue them over a volcano. You didn't pay for this add on, so you won't get it. Stop whining about it.

Yes, how dare a person who are about to spend money on a product, state what that product should contain before they are willing to pay for it.

 

[blackdwarf]

i think the my main problem is with first day DLC (and i guess for most people) is when i pay my 60 euros (or whatever your price/currency is) that i pay that money for all the work that is done for this game so far. when i see i have to pay 10 euros more to get all the content that was finished before release, i really feel cheated.

i saw expansions as work after the release for which i gave money. i hoped to see the same with DLC, but we are mostly paying for work that is done before release, work we paid for with the purchase of the game. so now we have to pay double.

that is how i see it.

 

[Aris Khandr]

Alright I will say this once more with my caps lock on this time around... I DON'T HAVE A FUCKING PROBLEM WITH DLC! I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM OF THEY CUTTING CONTENT IN THE GAME AND SELLING TO ME LATER ON(GREAT DEAL OF GOOD DLC WAS BORN THAT WAY)! MY PROBLEM IS THEY COULD HAVE INCLUDED THAT IN THE FUCKING GAME AND DECIDED THAT THEY WOULDN'T DO IT IN FAVOR OF SOME EXTRA BUCKS.

I'm not child, I don't expect to simply be given everything for free. I will probably ending up paying the extra for it and however is released later if I feel it's worth it. Doesn't make me feel any less cheated thought.

There is nothing in the Collector's Edition of the game that is not done in time for release. That's kind of the point of having a Collector's Edition. Who would buy it if you had to wait 4-8 weeks longer to get the game, just so they could work on the bonuses? No one. We want the game. So, with that in mind, what do you expect them to offer in a CE? Because you said yourself that you feel cheated if they offer things that "could have been in the game".

You (I presume) saw that there was a CE. You saw what was being offered in it. You chose not to order that version. Why are you feeling cheated now that the CE comes with exactly what they told you it would come with, and you're not getting it?

 

[SajuukKhar]

The Prothean was part of the original game? Yes

Was he planned to be DLC? Not until halfway into the development cycle apparently.

Was he going to be a main part of the story? Original Leaks say yes, new leaks dont have him even be a part of the main plot.

Is it wrong that they changed the plot midway through development? uncertain, this is an opinion based question and your opinion is just as valid as the next persons, as long as it isnt based around assumptions and generalizations.

Could Bioware just have kept the DLC to Collectors Edition Buyers? Yes

Would it have caused outrage? people have been angry because an NPC wore a low neckline dress, Im pretty sure it would have.

Is this DLC something I need to fulfill my gaming experience? Not really

Are people entitled to their opinion on not buying the Game because of the DLC? Yeah they are.

Should Bioware have made the DLC for free? I dont think so, from the looks of it the multiplayer was the freebie this time around.

Will people keep making threads about ME3? Yep, all the way through march im expecting.

Actually the Prothean mentioned in the leaked script is a VI, which is still in the game.

So your first four points are wrong.

Do like the picture though.

 

[boag]

The Prothean was part of the original game? Yes

Was he planned to be DLC? Not until halfway into the development cycle apparently.

Was he going to be a main part of the story? Original Leaks say yes, new leaks dont have him even be a part of the main plot.

Is it wrong that they changed the plot midway through development? uncertain, this is an opinion based question and your opinion is just as valid as the next persons, as long as it isnt based around assumptions and generalizations.

Could Bioware just have kept the DLC to Collectors Edition Buyers? Yes

Would it have caused outrage? people have been angry because an NPC wore a low neckline dress, Im pretty sure it would have.

Is this DLC something I need to fulfill my gaming experience? Not really

Are people entitled to their opinion on not buying the Game because of the DLC? Yeah they are.

Should Bioware have made the DLC for free? I dont think so, from the looks of it the multiplayer was the freebie this time around.

Will people keep making threads about ME3? Yep, all the way through march im expecting.

Actually the Prothean mentioned in the leaked script is a VI, which is still in the game.

So your first four points are wrong.

Do like the picture though.

sweet, new info is always welcomed, I just "assumed" it was the same Prothean, I need to re read the leaked text, can you provide the part where its established that hes a VI?

 

[Diablo2000]

Alright I will say this once more with my caps lock on this time around... I DON'T HAVE A FUCKING PROBLEM WITH DLC! I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM OF THEY CUTTING CONTENT IN THE GAME AND SELLING TO ME LATER ON(GREAT DEAL OF GOOD DLC WAS BORN THAT WAY)! MY PROBLEM IS THEY COULD HAVE INCLUDED THAT IN THE FUCKING GAME AND DECIDED THAT THEY WOULDN'T DO IT IN FAVOR OF SOME EXTRA BUCKS.

I'm not child, I don't expect to simply be given everything for free. I will probably ending up paying the extra for it and however is released later if I feel it's worth it. Doesn't make me feel any less cheated thought.

There is nothing in the Collector's Edition of the game that is not done in time for release. That's kind of the point of having a Collector's Edition. Who would buy it if you had to wait 4-8 weeks longer to get the game, just so they could work on the bonuses? No one. We want the game. So, with that in mind, what do you expect them to offer in a CE? Because you said yourself that you feel cheated if they offer things that "could have been in the game".

You (I presume) saw that there was a CE. You saw what was being offered in it. You chose not to order that version. Why are you feeling cheated now that the CE comes with exactly what they told you it would come with, and you're not getting it?

I did see what was in the CE and I decided to buy the normal because at the time (It was before anyone knew about this DLC, so there's no way to know that they were going to pull this shit off) I though that the CE it had cool stuff (Artbook, new weapons and shit) but nothing OMGTHISSHITISAWESOMEINEEDTHIS! like the Skyrim Dragon statue (Who is looking at me right now) and even now I don't think there's nothing that really justifies me to buy the CE...

Since we enter on the Skyrim topic (You didn't but I did) the special edition of Skyrim is a good exemple of rewarding the buyer without making the people who bought the normal version feels like they are missing something since both version are the same game with the same weapons and same sidequests and both will have to pay the same when Bethesda release the new horse armor

Anyway I don't think Bioware will have a change of hearth based on my opinion.

 

[boag]

Alright I will say this once more with my caps lock on this time around... I DON'T HAVE A FUCKING PROBLEM WITH DLC! I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM OF THEY CUTTING CONTENT IN THE GAME AND SELLING TO ME LATER ON(GREAT DEAL OF GOOD DLC WAS BORN THAT WAY)! MY PROBLEM IS THEY COULD HAVE INCLUDED THAT IN THE FUCKING GAME AND DECIDED THAT THEY WOULDN'T DO IT IN FAVOR OF SOME EXTRA BUCKS.

I'm not child, I don't expect to simply be given everything for free. I will probably ending up paying the extra for it and however is released later if I feel it's worth it. Doesn't make me feel any less cheated thought.

There is nothing in the Collector's Edition of the game that is not done in time for release. That's kind of the point of having a Collector's Edition. Who would buy it if you had to wait 4-8 weeks longer to get the game, just so they could work on the bonuses? No one. We want the game. So, with that in mind, what do you expect them to offer in a CE? Because you said yourself that you feel cheated if they offer things that "could have been in the game".

You (I presume) saw that there was a CE. You saw what was being offered in it. You chose not to order that version. Why are you feeling cheated now that the CE comes with exactly what they told you it would come with, and you're not getting it?

I did see what was in the CE and I decided to buy the normal because at the time (It was before anyone knew about this DLC, so there's no way to know that they were going to pull this shit off) I though that the CE it had cool stuff (Artbook, new weapons and shit) but nothing OMGTHISSHITISAWESOMEINEEDTHIS! like the Skyrim Dragon statue (Who is looking at me right now) and even now I don't think there's nothing that really justifies me to buy the CE...

Since we enter on the Skyrim topic (You didn't but I did) the special edition of Skyrim is a good exemple of rewarding the buyer without making the people who bought the normal version feels like they are missing something since both version are the same game with the same weapons and same sidequests and both will have to pay the same when Bethesda release the new horse armor

Anyway I don't think Bioware will have a change of hearth based on my opinion.

in my opinion Bioware is offering something better in their CE package that Bethesda didnt.

and we did know about the CE having an extra mission and character since it was announced

http://www.geek.com/articles/games/mass-effect-3-collectors-edition-content-revealed-2011069/

Jun. 9, 2011

 

[Aris Khandr]

Thank you, boag. I was about to link the exact same image.

 

[MercurySteam]

Why? The character is for the Collector's Edition of the game first. It's offered as DLC for those who didn't buy it if they decided they wanted it. Why hold it back, and thus take away value from the CE just so the people who didn't buy it will complain less?

Oh nonononono. This whole business has shown that gamers are the most self-entitled group of whiney bitches on the internet (it's not very nice, but it seems to ring true). I recall that DICE was keeping the 'Physical Warefare Pack' for the CE of BF3 but people whined and complained about it and eventually they released it as DLC (tbh, it wasn't even that good). Imagine the bullshit that people would spout if Bioware limited the Prothean sqadmate to N7 Editions. They'd never hear the end of it.

The people who pay more for their game deserve more for their money. That's just the way it is.

 

[linwolf]

Why? The character is for the Collector's Edition of the game first. It's offered as DLC for those who didn't buy it if they decided they wanted it. Why hold it back, and thus take away value from the CE just so the people who didn't buy it will complain less?

Oh nonononono. This whole business has shown that gamers are the most self-entitled group of whiney bitches on the internet (it's not very nice, but it seems to ring true). I recall that DICE was keeping the 'Physical Warefare Pack' for the CE of BF3 but people whined and complained about it and eventually they released it as DLC (tbh, it wasn't even that good). Imagine the bullshit that people would spout if Bioware limited the Prothean sqadmate to N7 Editions. They'd never hear the end of it.

The people who pay more for their game deserve more for their money. That's just the way it is.

Well if you are just going to insult people that disagree with you without coming with any counter argument then allow me to return the favor.

This whole business has shown that gamers are doormats. Willingly let companies devalue there product, feed them bullshit excuses and still feels the need to defend the companies whose actions goes against there own interests.
And then even have the time to whine about people not willing to accept getting a worse product at a higher price, and therefore naturally speaks out against it.

 

[ThoughtlessConcept]

The biggest problem is that they should either give it to all who buy new or give it to none. Otherwise you'd just be better off buying the LE, which would have been nice to know before the LE sold out.

 

[Frybird]

The biggest problem is that they should either give it to all who buy new or give it to none. Otherwise you'd just be better off buying the LE, which would have been nice to know before the LE sold out.

As shown in above Picture, it could've been known by anyone over 6 months ago.

 

[FEichinger]

... I really dunno what to say here, but I'll try regardless ...
Pricing on Games is still a major issue. We pay 50 bucks, plus DLC. Compare that to games from the past decades without DLC: 50 bucks, nothing else.
Teh decade before that, you would pay 80 for a game that had no ending and was the same rehashed level over and over again.
Can't disagree entirely.

Yes, sure, the games with DLC offer more content, and as such need to be more expensive ... But paying around a hundred bucks on the full potential of a game (or, as we have those precious figures of around ... 500 bucks for all ME3 content, iirc), is overpriced. Sure, production is expensive
Flawed argument, based on flawed information, you do not have to pay 500 dollars for the full potential just yet, at most you pay 80 for CE which already has all the main game DLC, and 25 bucks for a rifle that will be available only for Multiplayer.
Actually, the promotional additions handed out are calculated in there. As I said, that's the most ridiculous path one could take, and the general price currently is around 100 bucks.

... But this goes straight against the principles of a free market ...
No it doesnt, supply and demand is the heart of the free market, if supply high, price drops, if Demand is high, Prices Rise.
Yes, and in the era of digital distribution we have infinite supply, while the demand doesn't ask for the lowest price. Here lies massive fault.

As consumers we should demand the lowest price possible.
This is correct

And right now we're doing the exact opposite: Pay whatever we can afford.
Thats your opinion on your habits, dont speak for other people or generalize
Uhm, actually I am talking historic sales figures, not "habits" ...

A movie with a similar budget to a current gen AAA game goes to the theatres with 10 to 20 bucks ticket prices
... Don't tell me there are more movie consumers than gamers ... Even if there are, it's definitely not three-fold or more.

a movie that will provide an hour of entertainment for 10-20 dollars, agaisnt a game that will provide 50 or 60 hours of entertainment for 60-80 dollars.
So, according to this, we pay for the entertainment value, while the budget behind said entertainment value is less in relation to the movie's. That means that we pay more for something that costs less in production. Again, consumers should call for lower prices.

I leave the math up to you.

Answers in red. My main point still stands: Pricing overall needs to be reconsidered.

 

[MercurySteam]

Well if you are just going to insult people that disagree with you without coming with any counter argument then allow me to return the favor.

This whole business has shown that gamers are doormats. Willingly let companies devalue there (its 'their' not 'there') product, feed them bullshit excuses and still feels the need to defend the companies whose actions goes against there own interests.
And then even have the time to whine about people not willing to accept getting a worse product at a higher price, and therefore naturally speaks out against it.

I'm not insulting people that disagree with me, I'm calling it what it is.

From what I've seen, there's already $60 worth of content shipped with the game. I won't deny that Bioware would've won points for including Ashes to Ashes will all new copies of the game, but there are people that worked during post game production to create this DLC and they deserve to be paid as much as anybody else who worked on the game. The N7 Edition is pretty packed with content even without the bonus squadmate, so I want to know why EA didn't charge extra on top of the regular collectors edition price, as people claim that this is a pure money-grabbing technique. People like you see this as a way for EA to get more money out of us while people like me see it as just more content if you're willing to pay for it. I'm buying the N7 Edition, so clearly I am.

I respect your right to your own opinion, but that doesn't mean I agree with you.

 

[boag]

... I really dunno what to say here, but I'll try regardless ...
Pricing on Games is still a major issue. We pay 50 bucks, plus DLC. Compare that to games from the past decades without DLC: 50 bucks, nothing else.
Teh decade before that, you would pay 80 for a game that had no ending and was the same rehashed level over and over again.
Can't disagree entirely.

Yes, sure, the games with DLC offer more content, and as such need to be more expensive ... But paying around a hundred bucks on the full potential of a game (or, as we have those precious figures of around ... 500 bucks for all ME3 content, iirc), is overpriced. Sure, production is expensive
Flawed argument, based on flawed information, you do not have to pay 500 dollars for the full potential just yet, at most you pay 80 for CE which already has all the main game DLC, and 25 bucks for a rifle that will be available only for Multiplayer.
Actually, the promotional additions handed out are calculated in there. As I said, that's the most ridiculous path one could take, and the general price currently is around 100 bucks.
Indeed you did, I apologize for overlooking it
... But this goes straight against the principles of a free market ...
No it doesnt, supply and demand is the heart of the free market, if supply high, price drops, if Demand is high, Prices Rise.
Yes, and in the era of digital distribution we have infinite supply, while the demand doesn't ask for the lowest price. Here lies massive fault.
Ah, but you cant go buy it just yet can you? so supply is basically set at 0 right now, while Demand from the Hype is pretty high, this is how they can put the price tag on it and see if people will purchase it, from their previous experience with ME2, success was achieved immediately with their price structure, so this time around they are offering it up again with a small increase. This is still the norm of supply and demand

As consumers we should demand the lowest price possible.
This is correct

And right now we're doing the exact opposite: Pay whatever we can afford.
Thats your opinion on your habits, dont speak for other people or generalize
Uhm, actually I am talking historic sales figures, not "habits" ...
If your assumption was correct, then the price would be lower, but we know for a fact that ME2 sold really well. Perhaps I am missing you point because of the structure of the sentence, could you please reword it?


A movie with a similar budget to a current gen AAA game goes to the theatres with 10 to 20 bucks ticket prices
... Don't tell me there are more movie consumers than gamers ... Even if there are, it's definitely not three-fold or more.

a movie that will provide an hour of entertainment for 10-20 dollars, agaisnt a game that will provide 50 or 60 hours of entertainment for 60-80 dollars.
So, according to this, we pay for the entertainment value, while the budget behind said entertainment value is less in relation to the movie's. That means that we pay more for something that costs less in production. Again, consumers should call for lower prices.

I already agreed with you on consumers asking for lower prices, however I disagree with your assessment, Here is the math behind it. If you pay an average of 15 dollars for a 120 average movie minutes, and you pay an average of 70 dollars dollars for 3300 game minutes, how much are you paying for each minute of entertainment on each?

a movie minute costs you .12 cents a game minute costs you .02

Which one is the cheaper one?

I leave the math up to you.

Answers in red. My main point still stands: Pricing overall needs to be reconsidered.

I disagree, for the core game without any of the bells and whistles 60 dollars is a good price point, if you feel the need to get all the extras, which amount to pure fanwank, another 25 dollars isnt even half the amount of the games price.

 

[Bad Jim]

A movie with a similar budget to a current gen AAA game goes to the theatres with 10 to 20 bucks ticket prices ... Don't tell me there are more movie consumers than gamers ... Even if there are, it's definitely not three-fold or more.

Movie budgets actually go a lot higher than game budgets.

http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/records/allbudgets.php

http://www.listal.com/list/top-10-most-expensive-video

However, there is a key difference. Movies are expected to last a couple of hours. Games are expected to last at least a week, ideally a month or more. So while a rational gamer will only buy a few titles per month, a movie fan is willing to watch a movie every night if the price is right. Conversely, a major blockbuster can be a rent/sale to everyone who was interested while games will not sell even to many fans of the genre because there are many other games competing for their time.

 

[ThoughtlessConcept]

The biggest problem is that they should either give it to all who buy new or give it to none. Otherwise you'd just be better off buying the LE, which would have been nice to know before the LE sold out.

As shown in above Picture, it could've been known by anyone over 6 months ago.

I'm still going to try to blame someone else, I hadn't heard about the dlc until this month and before that I had no intention of buying the LE. It's funny how nobody starts to rant about this stuff until it's too late to actually do anything about it.