Dead or Alive 6 Creator Director Shimbori Asks "Why does DoA get so much flak vs. other games?"

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

I don't see the dev saying "we didn't market this game with sex appeal" as much as "other games like SC also did that but they didn't get the same rap".

I actually don?t recall much of Soul Calibur?s advertising at all. I do know they got some ?Really guys?? thrown at them over Ivy - and very specifically Ivy - by their fans who charged her design progression from start to the then current SCIV. Even allowing for graphics improvements the escalation was Dragon Ball Z levels of absurd. Seriously if the size of her breasts was indicative of her power then Ivy should be going toe to toe with Superman.

As to why DOA gets it but SC and the rest don?t? Well, honestly there?s a few factors but the big one probably is that DOA is a better game mechanically and visually, plus was better advertised.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I don't see the dev saying "we didn't market this game with sex appeal" as much as "other games like SC also did that but they didn't get the same rap".

I actually don?t recall much of Soul Calibur?s advertising at all. I do know they got some ?Really guys?? thrown at them over Ivy - and very specifically Ivy - by their fans who charged her design progression from start to the then current SCIV. Even allowing for graphics improvements the escalation was Dragon Ball Z levels of absurd. Seriously if the size of her breasts was indicative of her power then Ivy should be going toe to toe with Superman.

As to why DOA gets it but SC and the rest don?t? Well, honestly there?s a few factors but the big one probably is that DOA is a better game mechanically and visually, plus was better advertised.

Actually, there is a game called omega labyrinth where the more experience points you get the bigger the char's breasts become. It's a roguelike though so they always revert to the original size once you're out of the dungeon. Sounds like Ivy would fit right in XD.


SC is more respected competitively speaking from my understanding, granted I primarily know of the ongoings of the 2D fgc and not the 3D one as much. Maybe it was different back in the day or between more casual fans or something. 3D fighters like tekken are like that where they're very popular due to the relatively simplistic inputs required but their tourney scenes are on the smaller scale, at least in the US.

 

[Something Amyss]

Obviously there's going to be a back and forth if we keep continuing.

That wasn't a back and forth. You quoted make to ask a question with no relation to mine. This conversation ended when you asked the very question I had just addressed, and had been addressed previously: the game is singled out because of the way it presents itself. This isn't discourse, this is you waiting for your turn to talk and repeating the same talking points.

If you want conversation, modify your behaviour.

To save another repeat:

Soul Calibur

Dead or Alive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b0ftfKFEJg

 

[BrawlMan]

Obviously there's going to be a back and forth if we keep continuing.

That wasn't a back and forth. You quoted make to ask a question with no relation to mine. This conversation ended when you asked the very question I had just addressed, and had been addressed previously: the game is singled out because of the way it presents itself. This isn't discourse, this is you waiting for your turn to talk and repeating the same talking points.

If you want conversation, modify your behaviour.

To save another repeat:

Soul Calibur

Dead or Alive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b0ftfKFEJg

I don't have an attitude, so I don't know where you are coming from. I am not trying start a fight or cause beef, I'm just pointing out DOA gets singled out, even when KT is trying to fix things.

And second, that DOA picture is taken out of context for comparison. You could have used a better cast picture.

http://www.4usky.com/data/out/25/164205633-dead-or-alive-wallpapers.jpg

I've said what I needed, moving on to something else.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

And second, that DOA picture is taken out of context for comparison. You could have used a better cast picture.

http://www.4usky.com/data/out/25/164205633-dead-or-alive-wallpapers.jpg

Looks like you too.

 

[BrawlMan]

And second, that DOA picture is taken out of context for comparison. You could have used a better cast picture.

http://www.4usky.com/data/out/25/164205633-dead-or-alive-wallpapers.jpg

Looks like you too.

Ha! Hilarious!

 

[Something Amyss]

I don't have an attitude, so I don't know where you are coming from.

And yet, you still started out ignoring comments and repeating what you'd already said.

You're the one who brought up a conversation...in the same response where you ignored 90% of what I said. That's not a conversation, and I'm deleting any further replies on the subject unread.

To be clear, I don't mind conversing, but you didn't. And since you ignored what I said, I did the same.

 

[BrawlMan]

I don't have an attitude, so I don't know where you are coming from.

And yet, you still started out ignoring comments and repeating what you'd already said.

You're the one who brought up a conversation...in the same response where you ignored 90% of what I said. That's not a conversation, and I'm deleting any further replies on the subject unread.

To be clear, I don't mind conversing, but you didn't. And since you ignored what I said, I did the same.

I saw your other posts beforehand, for the record. And my conversation was not specifically targeted towards you, but in general to people who had a problem with DOA's fan service. Look,I am sorry, if I came off ignoring commments. If you don't want to talk about it any more, fine by me, you do not have a gun to your head. I've said what I wanted on DOA in this topic and the other one where some fans were whining about slighly less fan service.

 

[Asita]

...Yes...I wonder why DoA has that reputation but Soul Calibur doesn't...truly it is a mystery that has nothing to do with how they've branded themselves.

 

[Saint of M]

Team Ninja did it to themselves. I have played 1 and 3, and while fun, the cheesecake was always a big peice of their marketing.

Outside of Ninja Guiden's Raiden, did you honestly remember most of the guys? Probably not. Well, the drunken kung fu guy maybe, and that might largely be one of his outfits makes him look like a Asian Fabio.

The first game spent a chunk of the graphics on how bouncy the ladies were.

Some of the alternative outfits in 3 were...exotic to say the least.

THen ether 4 or 5 started with some of the DLC costumes that are there as much for what the creators must assume is a hormonally driven strait male audience.

The Beach Volley Ball games did not shake their reputation in the diabetes inducing level of cheesecake. The opening cinematic showed off skin and Shojoaie bait. The second game doing the butt pool battles and the pool...dances....and both games had unlockable swimsuits that were more pleasing to the eye than the last.

Yes other games use T&A in their character design, some more bluntly then other. ANd yes, when it comes to fighting games, a good chunk of the female roaster lands generally on Hot to out of your League when it comes to attractive.

 

[Something Amyss]

...Yes...I wonder why DoA has that reputation but Soul Calibur doesn't...truly it is a mystery that has nothing to do with how they've branded themselves.

Ha! Beat you to it!

(No, but seriously, it amazes me that this is somehow a difficult concept)

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Soul Calibur

Dead or Alive

One of those is from the main series.

The other is from the spin-off.

One of those engendered a spin-off purely around fanservice.

The other didn't.

 

[CritialGaming]

And yet last week saw yet another Senran Kagura game release on Ps4, a game about beating the clothing off big titted anime girls and nobody has said a fucking word about it.

The point of the flak that DoA gets, is that the game seems to be doing everything it possibly can to call attention to the fanservice aspects of the game. See the other thread about the EVO incident.

I feel like that are blatantly using the outrage culture to their advantage and purposefully causing this press to center around them to bring attention to the upcoming fighting game. As was mentioned before DoA isn't known for being all that great of a fighting game in general and clearly seems to generate more fame and press from it's Xtreme Beach series and news articles about how great the tits look, rather than how good the game is as a fighter. Despite tournament presence.

So I think it we can safely cap the thread by saying that DoA gets more flak because it generates that flak on purpose. Whenever outrage culture freaks out about something, there will always be extra sales that drum up from the free media attention. See literally any other game outright news ever. Mass Effect, GTA, Mortal Kombat, etc. Would any of those games have become the blockbusters they became if there hadn't been so much media press about the "shameful" thing within? Maybe, maybe not, we can never know.

But I can bet there are more than just a couple of people that might not have heard of DoA and will pick it up after all this coverage of how immoral the tits look in it.

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

Ha! Beat you to it!

(No, but seriously, it amazes me that this is somehow a difficult concept)

As I alluded to in the other thread...I think a more interesting question is, how TN and Koei catch almost all the flak while SNK remains the perennial "karma houdini" with regards to the topic, when SNK was actually the company that started this shit in the first place, skimpy costumes, breast jiggle, sexualized advertising, and all.

People kind of looked askance at SNK Heroines, before immediately going back to their default state of bitching about DoA6. This was despite the fact "news" had just "broken" that female proportions, breast bounce, and costumes were being toned down. But, recent trailer footage for the time triggered a whole new wave of "this game fetishizes and objectifies women" based on...how characters get sweaty, dirty, and bruised during fights.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

SNK heroines had a few comments, an article here and there about its, ahh, issues with women, but they never got picked up by the culture warriors, because the culture warriors, like most people, didn't care about it. Heck, I saw more posts about trans Terri than anything. Senran Kagura gets a pass because of the same thing: the only time the culture warriors talk about it is when the dev complains about people and platforms thinking you shouldn't have naked kids because it's limiting his artistic freedom or something.

So if the SJWs just don't talk about it, they've got no ammo. So they don't talk about them either, or they end up trying to pass of a half dozen tweets with a dozen retweets between them as some sort of widespread outrage.

So, KT has to directly pander to the outrage merchants. Latest case in point, increasingly sexualized skits at EVO until they wore out the producer's patience, then the culture warriors get to whine about censorship and forced morality or whatever bollocks. Never mind KT got away with hot ladies in cut up outfits slapping each other on the ass.

 

[BrawlMan]

SNK heroines had a few comments, an article here and there about its, ahh, issues with women, but they never got picked up by the culture warriors, because the culture warriors, like most people, didn't care about it. Heck, I saw more posts about trans Terri than anything. Senran Kagura gets a pass because of the same thing: the only time the culture warriors talk about it is when the dev complains about people and platforms thinking you shouldn't have naked kids because it's limiting his artistic freedom or something.

So if the SJWs just don't talk about it, they've got no ammo. So they don't talk about them either, or they end up trying to pass of a half dozen tweets with a dozen retweets between them as some sort of widespread outrage.

So, KT has to directly pander to the outrage merchants. Latest case in point, increasingly sexualized skits at EVO until they wore out the producer's patience, then the culture warriors get to whine about censorship and forced morality or whatever bollocks. Never mind KT got away with hot ladies in cut up outfits slapping each other on the ass.

When senran kagura first appeared, game journalsists were bitchingabout it left and right. But after hearing how "bad" the game was, most consumers picked it up and what they found was a fun, decent, brawler. With an interesting story, if they cared to listen. Senran Kagura's case is even more ironic, because it has crossed over with DOA before. Game journalsists that complain about senran kagura again would just be old hat.

 

[Something Amyss]

Ha! Beat you to it!

(No, but seriously, it amazes me that this is somehow a difficult concept)

As I alluded to in the other thread...I think a more interesting question is, how TN and Koei catch almost all the flak while SNK remains the perennial "karma houdini" with regards to the topic, when SNK was actually the company that started this shit in the first place, skimpy costumes, breast jiggle, sexualized advertising, and all.

People kind of looked askance at SNK Heroines, before immediately going back to their default state of bitching about DoA6. This was despite the fact "news" had just "broken" that female proportions, breast bounce, and costumes were being toned down. But, recent trailer footage for the time triggered a whole new wave of "this game fetishizes and objectifies women" based on...how characters get sweaty, dirty, and bruised during fights.

The people who do it first rarely get the name recognition. This is pretty standard.

 

[Something Amyss]

So if the SJWs just don't talk about it, they've got no ammo. So they don't talk about them either, or they end up trying to pass of a half dozen tweets with a dozen retweets between them as some sort of widespread outrage.

To be honest, we've seen enough outrage warriors go on about a game because of the premise that the game will "trigger the SJWs" or whatever that there really is no need for this to be a thing. Except, of course, they don't really care about these games in the first place, as you already kind of got at.

There tends to be a meme-ification of outrage, and you can usually track back why a particular game causes the outrage to the same few sites or "influencers" on social media/YouTube. They will use the same talking points and make the same arguments, whether or not they're actually true, because they don't really know about the "controversy" otherwise.

There's a separate argument to be made in terms of longevity; I'm possibly the only person who uses Hatred as an example anymore, because after all the "this will trigger the SJWs!" crap, it didn't have any particular merit. The marketing worked, it proved a fool and his money were soon parted, but beyond that? Well, it wasn't a good game. And you can get a major profit boost on a shitty idea by saying so-and-so won't like it, but there's not much else in terms of depth there. It's telling when so many of the top reviews talk more about screwing the left or supporting the dev than quality of gameplay.

I wonder how many Steam libraries it sits in unplayed because people wanted to burn their money to "trigger the SJWs".

On Senran Kagura, the franchise reached a record sales figure of 1.65 million. I don't know why it's not getting more attention.

 

[Erttheking]

And yet last week saw yet another Senran Kagura game release on Ps4, a game about beating the clothing off big titted anime girls and nobody has said a fucking word about it.

That one doesn't complain about why it's seen as nothing but fanservice. It knows it is. Hey, if the game wants to be seen as nothing but fanservice, fine. But don't come and fucking complain to me when you focus on nothing but fanservice and then wonder why everyone just sees you as the tit game and laughs when you want to be taken more seriously.

 

[Fappy]

Remember the days when Street Fighter went as far as showing a Naked Chun Li taking a shower in the Street Fighter 2 Animated Movie? Ass and Titties fully exposed? Good times...

I remember that; but I more clearly remember her wrecking Vega?s shit par excellence afrerwards more. Hehe, she threw a couch at him and kicked him through a wall.

Seriously one of the best martial arts fights in an anime to this day.