Dear Users Complaining About Moderators

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truckspond

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Oct 26, 2013
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Marter said:
truckspond said:
Caliostro said:
Right, this seems... civil enough, so let's try something: If you have any questions for me post them as a reply to me (so I get a notification). I'm going to sleep now and I'll reply to what I can tomorrow. If anyone's interested that is.

Think of this as a small AMA I guess.
Have you ever considered adding exceptions to the "low content" rule for situations where such a short response can be easily justified by the topic at hand?
Low content rule is basically not a thing anymore and yes, we'd love for the CoC to be changed to address that.

So, yeah, there are currently "exceptions" to it -- basically because it's much less a thing than it's been in the past.

Even one-word responses can be okay if the thread is, like, "what's your favorite game" and you respond with "Game X."
But on the other end of the scale getting rid of the rule will result in a barrage of "FIRST!!11!" posts which you cannot do anything about. The rule can be weakened to just specifically disallow posts like that while allowing posts where such a short response is justifiable.
 

Qwurty2.0

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I don't really see anything wrong with the mods on this site. I've been on numerous forums, and let me say, the mods on the forum are extremely lenient and fair. I've seen forums where the mod basically can't be challenged and people back them no matter what (i.e. suck up to them).

Every now and then the mods do something that probably could have been handled better, but that's to be expected with forums of this size and diversity. The most you could accuse the mods is how consistently inconsistent they can be: due to the size of the forums they seem to miss some posts but might catch others, which looks like they are being selective with who they punish.

I don't mind criticism of the mods, but I facepalm at people who act like they are being suppressed or something. :/
 

Fappy

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Jan 4, 2010
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Make me a mod and I'll show these users what real abuse looks like >:D

Have an opinion I don't agree with? Instant suspension and three spankings for you!

Is your name 'Daystar Clarion'? Instant ban and a lifetime of fart-torture (he may actually enjoy that)!

No, but seriously, most the people who complain about mod abuse just don't have a clue what tact is and don't realize when they are being a pretty obvious jerk.
 

The Rogue Wolf

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Samael Barghest said:
I agree. You do abuse your power. I read an article about a spider and said I thought it was cool. Then I got a warning for it. No one could say why I got a warning, just some ass abusing his/her power.
I found that post. It was one word: "Cool". Even in a thread dominated by short, feces-related puns, that's low-content.
 
Aug 1, 2010
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As much as I completely agree that pointless whining about moderators is silly, these times when the biggest users on the site sing their praises aren't really all that helpful.

It feels like a major executive in a company cheering for the board of directors of said company. I'm not saying you or anyone else is bad, just that it's an odd position.

Also, since you brought it up, I feel the need to complain about your complaint about complaints. Yeah, it's in the contract. What's your point? That doesn't mean everything in there is perfect and wonderful and correct.

Overall, yeah, the modding here is pretty excellent and serves to make it a better place, but criticism is often healthy.
 

Marter

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truckspond said:
But on the other end of the scale getting rid of the rule will result in a barrage of "FIRST!!11!" posts which you cannot do anything about. The rule can be weakened to just specifically disallow posts like that while allowing posts where such a short response is justifiable.
Yes, you're right. It doesn't need to be removed but it does need to be re-written for the way it currently functions.
 

Marter

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TizzytheTormentor said:
Honestly, if someone asks what is your favourite game and you reply with something like "Persona 4" and nothing else, what does that add to the discussion? Why not explain why you like it, give actual insight to your answer, so I never saw a problem with posts like that getting warned.
I agree with you. But this isn't the world site in which we live anymore.
 

lacktheknack

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Jan 19, 2009
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Sir Thomas Sean Connery said:
As much as I completely agree that pointless whining about moderators is silly, these times when the biggest users on the site sing their praises aren't really all that helpful.

It feels like a major executive in a company cheering for the board of directors of said company. I'm not saying you or anyone else is bad, just that it's an odd position.
Not really. It shouldn't be surprising that the people who have been here the longest are the ones who work well with the mods and ruleset.
 

Redlin5_v1legacy

Better Red than Dead
Aug 5, 2009
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lacktheknack said:
TLDR

;)

We really shouldn't have to have this kind of thread explaining how moderation works. I thought it was pretty clear when I first joined and now they make you sign "I AGREE" to the rules when they get changed. There is no excuse for coming into the Escapist Forums expecting to be able to do the things you do on other sites.

Bookmarked for future reference.

Thanks lack. I see you sticking up for the mods and the staff all the time. If I were you, I would just link this thread to the people who make you cringe in the future instead of getting drawn into the same tired conversation with them.
 

Sassafrass

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Eh, I'm just amused at how some people take being wrathed on an internet forum seriously.
Guys, if you get banned, ya know it's not the end of the world, right?

Anyway, my opinions on the moderation here can be summed up with a simple "Meh." I've seen shit that shouldn't be punished and I've seen shit that hasn't been punished but should've been. It's no skin off my nose though as, at the end of the day, it's an internet forum and everyone makes mistakes, even more so if the rules they have to keep are seemingly in constant flux. I have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more important things to get worked up about and crusade about.

Like what I'm having for breakfast. :p

[sup]I had bacon sandwiches.
[sup][sup]They were delicious.[/sup][/sup][/sup]
 

Eamar

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...And this very thread demonstrates how people should read the rules before complaining. I mean come on, some guy directly calls other users (in this case mods) "asses", "twits" and "bitches" and then claims to be baffled about why he's getting warnings? Seriously?!

*headdesk*

Once again mods, I salute you. I'm not sure I'd be able to put up with this.
 

Colour Scientist

Troll the Respawn, Jeremy!
Jul 15, 2009
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Fappy said:
Make me a mod and I'll show these users what real abuse looks like >:D
Is your name 'Daystar Clarion'? Instant ban and a lifetime of fart-torture
10/10

I am 100% behind this plan.
Fappy 4 Mod 2014
 

Caliostro

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Jan 23, 2008
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truckspond said:
Have you ever considered adding exceptions to the "low content" rule for situations where such a short response can be easily justified by the topic at hand?
We do. Low content is about preventing people from spamming inane crap to up their post count, which in turn would result in topics bloated full of nothing for the sake of inflating a meaningless statistic. "+1!", "I agree", "FIRST!", etc. It was never about character count. If it was the staff probably could have simply installed something like the Steam forums have where it prevents you from posting if your topic has less than a certain number of characters.
 

Redlin5_v1legacy

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Sassafrass said:
[sup]I had bacon sandwiches.
[sup][sup]They were delicious.[/sup][/sup][/sup]
Sassafrass!

I was about to go to sleep.
[sub][sub]BUT NOW I HAVE TO MAKE A BACON SANDWICH YOU CLEVER DEVIL[/sub][/sub]
Eh, I'm just amused at how some people take being wrathed on an internet forum seriously.
Guys, if you get banned, ya know it's not the end of the world, right?
But how else will I be able to express my extreme displeasure of Bob Chipman's opinion of the week? Or better yet, Critical Miss making another _____ joke? That's easily as valuable as access to bacon, right?
[sub]The priorities of people on the internet have always baffled me.[/sub]
 

Sassafrass

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Redlin5 said:
Sassafrass said:
[sup]I had bacon sandwiches.
[sup][sup]They were delicious.[/sup][/sup][/sup]
Sassafrass!

I was about to go to sleep.
[sub][sub]BUT NOW I HAVE TO MAKE A BACON SANDWICH YOU CLEVER DEVIL[/sub][/sub]
Eh, I'm just amused at how some people take being wrathed on an internet forum seriously.
Guys, if you get banned, ya know it's not the end of the world, right?
But how else will I be able to express my extreme displeasure of Bob Chipman's opinion of the week? Or better yet, Critical Miss making another _____ joke? That's easily as valuable as access to bacon, right?
[sub]The priorities of people on the internet have always baffled me.[/sub]
I still have a plateful of bacon for lunch.
Delicious bacon, mmmmmmmmmmm.

And as for complaining, we haz teh Twitterz.
Or the Fac-E-Book. :D
 
Dec 14, 2009
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Fappy said:
Make me a mod and I'll show these users what real abuse looks like >:D

Have an opinion I don't agree with? Instant suspension and three spankings for you!

Is your name 'Daystar Clarion'? Instant ban and a lifetime of fart-torture (he may actually enjoy that)!

No, but seriously, most the people who complain about mod abuse just don't have a clue what tact is and don't realize when they are being a pretty obvious jerk.
Colour Scientist said:
Fappy said:
Make me a mod and I'll show these users what real abuse looks like >:D
Is your name 'Daystar Clarion'? Instant ban and a lifetime of fart-torture
10/10

I am 100% behind this plan.
Fappy 4 Mod 2014
NAAAAAAOW!

Only bad things can happen when you two talk about me, you're never allowed in the same room, I won't permit it. Putting my foot down.
 

The Lunatic

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Jun 3, 2010
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TopazFusion said:
The Lunatic said:
http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/general-discussion-30/man-has-anyone-here-been-on-the-escapist-forums-la-390720/
I don't know if you actually read this, but this is a thread from 4 years ago.

If we were to change the rules tomorrow, this result would still turn up in a google search.
Hell, the rules HAVE changed, several times, over the last 4 years. So this link is ALREADY out of date.
The point was about the reputation of The Escapist. Whilst it won't change overnight, the fact that this is four years ago, and yet there are newer examples, which I have given which also state the same thing clearly shows that this is a rather long-term problem.

The Lunatic said:
https://twitter.com/Escapist_TXT
This is nothing more than a collection of amusing Escapist forum posts that someone has compiled. It has nothing to do with moderation specifically.
Any change to the forum rules would make no difference here either.
I never said it was. You asked me to prove The Escapist Forums have a poor reputation. I never said this is specifically due to moderator. I'd argue that moderation plays a role as, from this thread we have seen, some users feel afraid to post and are worried they may unintentionally misstep. Which affects the type of content that gets posted here. But, that's just my opinion.

The Lunatic said:
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140306/06471226459/escapist-website-content-creator-puts-up-video-about-adblock-moderators-warnsuspend-people-discussing-adblock-comments.shtml
This 'article' is so horribly misleading and deceptive, it's laughable.

Quote from this article:
"Users still seem to get banned if they so much as mention the word Adblock"

Users don't get "banned". They get whatever the next punishment is on their health meter.
And they don't get punished for mentioning the word "Adblock", they only get punished for admitting to or advocating its use.

Furthermore, that article grossly misrepresents what Jim's video said, to the point where I doubt the writer actually watched it.
This is just completely wrong. I have personally been warned for daring to even mention the word. Unless you're now claiming I'm imagining things. You're just wrong here. I contacted the support at the time, whom were very rude and they informed me, under no allowance was I allowed to mention the software.

Also, just because you disagree with somebody does not mean it doesn't exist. People still see this, it got The Escapist a lot of attention. It affects our reputation, regardless of if you agree with it or not. That is what you asked me to show. It is what I have shown. Please stop holding this to a different standard after you have asked me to demonstrate it.

The Lunatic said:
And finally.

Poll you're quoting has a small sample size, and those that do agree is a fairly small margin. I accept that it's difficult to gauge response if people don't answer the polls, but, the fact it was such a small margin of "Victory" means you should really consider what that implies.
Granted, a random poll is hardly compelling proof. But it still illustrates that a majority are happy with the rules and how things are run.
It's just a vocal minority who aren't.
Citation needed.


The "Yes" did not get a majority over 50%. So, to say those that disagree is a vocal minority is just kidding yourself at this stage.

Perhaps there is more people content with the rules. But, you sure wouldn't get that from a random and small poll.

Can the people affected by the rules vote on this poll if they're banned or suspended? Did the "Other" voters actually get factored in at all?

If you're going to use this poll as some sort of truth, please tell me what you're drawing this conclusion from. As I see it not even half of the people on these forums agree with the rules completely.
 

IceForce

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Eamar said:
I'm not sure I can give general advice,
Don't worry, you've been a great help.

I appreciate the civil reply. And I appreciate how you didn't jump down my throat like someone else in this thread did.

Once again, you have my thanks.
 

IceForce

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The Lunatic said:
The "Yes" did not get a majority over 50%. So, to say those that disagree is a vocal minority is just kidding yourself at this stage.

Perhaps there is more people content with the rules. But, you sure wouldn't get that from a random and small poll.
Personally, I'd take any poll held on this site with a big grain of salt.
Because it's basically asking "How many people here who can still post are happy with the rules?"

If everyone who's ever been banned on this site was to vote in such a poll, I'm sure the results would be very different.
 

DanDanikov

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Dec 28, 2008
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I got warnings over the Adblock fiasco (probably admitting its use, if I recall correctly... knowing my luck I get a warning for referring to a time I admitted to using Adblock, which is fucking stupid but hey-ho, watch Escapist forum moderation go) and, as a result, haven't logged in since then and stopped being involved in the forums nearly as much (I occasionally check out what's trending after watching Escape to the Movies, but that's it).

You're absolutely right that, ultimately, it's their community space and their choice how they run things- you're also right that one can't blame the moderators merely for enforcing the rules, however they also have a responsibility to not do so blindly. Nothing says that the rules they enforce are automatically reasonable or fair.

It's also worth considering motivation. Why do they keep forums? It attracts people who like the community and wish to engage in discussion. Such users also generate ad revenue (go figure, they're a money making business). It's not our responsibility as part of the community to help them make money, but what harms the community harms their ad revenue, so there is some mutual interest there to keep things healthy.

What's really silly about this thread (in response to the other) is that you're seizing upon the fact they were complaining about the moderators and conflating that with a complaint about Moderators (the official title for volunteer moderators), rather than members involved in the general moderation process, including the Community Manager and any other paid Escapist staff. The moderator who responds does the exact same thing (a little more justifiable as it's something they may have taken personally).

However it's also evidence of the continued unhealthy state of moderation on the site and how powerless users are (or think they are) to change that, especially now that more of the community is drinking the 'like it or leave' kool aid and gets angry at people not being happy/blindly accepting what is mandated. The problem with that is people do leave (at least, as far as cancelling their publisher's club, not logging in, making posts and using Adblock to deny the site revenue is 'leaving') and it's a massive failure if things end up going that far with reasonable people who were otherwise contributing to the community in a constructive way. For a journalistic organisation I would have expected a better track record on censorship.

You wonder why people care about moderation- people care about being part of the community. It's nice to belong. It's sad when that community rejects you and you have to leave, but it's worse when it's not the community that you have to leave over but the curators arbitrarily deciding that you don't belong there in a fairly successful attempt to censor otherwise reasonable discussion.

You might wonder why I'm posting this if I left... well, I'm one of those people who cared about being part of the community and had a fairly spotless track record until the Adblock fiasco, so I am a bit resentful that it came to that, but I also would like to see things change. I don't hold high hopes for that happening and it definitely hasn't happened, so while I accept that means going back to lurking, doesn't mean I'm happy about it.