Death to the Mana Bar!

[JMeganSnow]

I prefer the mana bar to the D&D system of "You can use X number of spells per day, you run out, oh well, good thing wizards have such high STR and CON right? Oh... you don't? Sorry"

Well you have to admit that in those games like BG2 spells are owerpowered and I find it better that way because you need to chose carefully how to and where to cast spells not just spam like a moron

Or you just need to rest after almost any fight. That works too.

Dungeons and Dragons Online is a MUCH better implementation of the D&D PnP to CRPG thing. It's not perfect (PvP is a JOKE. Clerics pwn everyone. You can't kill them except with a massive spell critical, and they can one-shot everyone with searing light because *nothing* blocks that spell), but it's far better than anything that's come out thus far. However in questing and raids and so forth, everyone has a role and can do their own cool stuff. Also, unlike WoW, you aren't stuck with just one role (or two) predetermined by your class and spec--everyone can manage to do enough of everything to finagle their way though a tough spot. It's a lot of fun.

 

[babinro]

I like the idea of unlimited castings where the trade-off is conjuration time.

Make it take .5 seconds to cast a ray of frost, and 2.0 seconds to cast a fireball. 10 seconds to raise an area of dead.

 

[=HCFS=Discoman]

As a dedicated RPG fan, you should know that the limitations on spellcasting goes back to the RPG source: Dungeons and Dragons. And second, Tolkien's universe what exceptionally high-magic. Gandalf does not bust out massive spells. Here's an article noting that he's probably only 5th level:

http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=7338

If you want a game where you can destroy everything and have no limits (and therefore no challenges), you'll probably have to make it yourself.

garrysmod maybe?
of course, you'd need to code the overpowered magic weapons/spells/whatever.

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

I prefer the Dark Heresy system. Unlimited 'magic' (psychic) powers, but every time you use one there is a small chance you'll tear reality asunder which increases with the more power you put into it.

 

[Gitty101]

Meh - I'd prefer to have a balanced game rather than an all-powerful magic class. Magic in general is way too overpowered.

I was also hoping it would be a topic about Yahtzee's bar XD

 

[Mercsenary]

I, as a dedicated RPG fan have often been dumbfounded by magic systems in games. Why in a world that calls itself High Fantasy do I have the magical capabilities of a real life magician? When SO much of modern fantasy is based on the work of Tolkien why do I "run out of spells"? Gandalf didnt have this problem! Even HARRY POTTER didnt have this GLARING HORRID limitation! I speak of course of the mana bar that seemingly age old mechanic that has you unable to summon up so much as a puff of smoke at just the wrong instant to lead to your demise at the hands of that smelly warrior! While recent games have gone the route of using cooldowns instead I have to ask why limit it at all? For game balance? The ENTIRE point of magic is to be unbalanced. I want to summon skeleton armies from my fallen foes and conjure firestorms to destroy cities in an instant! I dont want to retreat helplessly while waiting for my magical talents to recharge! So.... who feels they have the wit to finally defeat this horrid blemish on modern gaming? Who among you can help put this flawed concept to final rest? WHO AMONG YOU CAN...oh screw it! Anybody got any ideas?

... In other words you want an instant win button. GTFO.

 

[Zarthek]

In games it exists as a method of balancing gameplay (Though In some you can get such a massive mana pool that it doesn't even matter anymore...). Though some of these fantasy universes explains why a magician cannot cast continuously. One such example is the Warcraft games, I've actually read the books that explain the backstory and whenever the mages cast continuously they become fatigued. In a way you could argue that the mana is somewhat equal to the mage's energy, your character stops casting because he/she is tired.

So that's one way to look at it

 

[Vault Citizen]

I, as a dedicated RPG fan have often been dumbfounded by magic systems in games. Why in a world that calls itself High Fantasy do I have the magical capabilities of a real life magician? When SO much of modern fantasy is based on the work of Tolkien why do I "run out of spells"? Gandalf didnt have this problem! Even HARRY POTTER didnt have this GLARING HORRID limitation! I speak of course of the mana bar that seemingly age old mechanic that has you unable to summon up so much as a puff of smoke at just the wrong instant to lead to your demise at the hands of that smelly warrior! While recent games have gone the route of using cooldowns instead I have to ask why limit it at all? For game balance? The ENTIRE point of magic is to be unbalanced. I want to summon skeleton armies from my fallen foes and conjure firestorms to destroy cities in an instant! I dont want to retreat helplessly while waiting for my magical talents to recharge! So.... who feels they have the wit to finally defeat this horrid blemish on modern gaming? Who among you can help put this flawed concept to final rest? WHO AMONG YOU CAN...oh screw it! Anybody got any ideas?

if you want a game with powerful magic and no mana bar play Fable 2.

 

[Malk_Content]

I'd go the way of the old Mage pen and paper game. Reality does not like being fucked with, mess about with it too much and you suffer backlash. Something like this in a video game would be interesting, there would be no upper limit to the amount of magic you could cast but the risks with each spell would gradually get higher and higher. Kind of like the boost bar in Motorstorm, you can push over the limit but the more you do so the more likely it is that you will go up in flames.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

I always prefer systems where magic is absurdly powerful but takes it's toll on the user by making them insane, slowly killing them or both.

You want massive, unstoppable powers? You got 'em, but you're still only human and something has got to give.

This is cool but how would you implement it into a game (assuming we mean computer game not tabletop d & d type thing.) In single player, could be fun if it was built into the story. Cant see it workin in multiplayer.

 

[TheMagicLemur]

So what you want is an instant "Kill Everything" button, then. Not sure that'd be a very saleable game.

 

[Hawgh]

Pick up one of the multitude of DnD-based games.
Linear warriors, quadratic wizards and all that.

Then stop whining that games with multiple character options also have multiple viable approaches.

 

[Inkidu]

Actually, I think a fun thing to do would be to have a magic centric game. It's not based around whether or not you're a wizard or a rogue. It's based around whether or not you're a wizard A or B.

The spells aren't relegated to some kind of special ability that can be a one-two punch of ownage, but instead a deep and thoughtful action-y kind of game.

Kind of like dueling. One wizard steps up and throws a huge fireball, and another wizard who uses only defensive magic uses a curved shield that reflects the fireball back. The first wizard jumps out of the way of his returned projectile and fires a smaller air wave at a tree causing a cascade of splinters that the magic-reflecting shield can't block and the second wizard lies dead impaled by tree bits.

Yeah, I could see that working. The various attacks are magic, environmental. That would be awesome. It would need to be tweaked to hell, but awesome.

 

[Liquid Paradox]

I would agree with you, except that your points are flawed in context. Harry Potter has no "Mana bar" because a mana bar would not fit the context of harry potter; in his world, magic users are simply better then non-magic users. I would say the same for gandalf, but... that isn't really true, because gandalf isn't really that powerful.

So, if you have a game where magic is the only offensive/defensive mechanic, then yeah, it should be overpowered.

In Dragon Age: Origens, ther are three classes: The warrior, the rogue, and the mage. the quintessential fantasy threesome. Warriors are tough, and do medium levels of damage, rogues are fast and do a lot of burst damage, and mages are frickin' cannons, blowing the crap out ov everything, but on a limited resource. The reason the mage isn't all powerful is because this world is focused on heroes of different skill sets. Making the mage god-like would alienate players who prefer, say, stealth, or physical strength.

The game world is designed with the player in mind, so a game which allows a player to play as a non-magic class will have a world where the best mage is only as good as the best warrior.

 

[health-bar]

NO!

THE MANA BAR MUST ALWAYS REMAIN!

otherwise i would get lonely all by myself in the top left of the screen.

Spoiler

if you didn't get it look at my username

 

[EPolleys]

Well if unlimited power and no recharge are your thing I'd look at Magicka, that game is mega fun with friends.

IIRC in Magicka, magic is the ONLY thing going. The whole concept of a mana bar only really has relevance in games where you have other options going on at the same time. I take it in Magicka the brute force application doesn't really accomplish much most of the time?

No,but that doesn't change the fact that in Magicka your power is still unlimited, and that is what the op had in mind, unlimited power... I merely pointed him in the game's direction

 

[akibawall95]

Like others I seriously thought this was about the video game bar Yahtzee goes to, but I digress.

I agree that the mana bar has its flaws for example if you could run out and not be able to use any spells and get killed. You should also not be able to use as many spells as you like that would be no fun. As many have stated there are many ways developers have helped to improve it like individual spells recharging and so on.

 

[JMeganSnow]

Well if unlimited power and no recharge are your thing I'd look at Magicka, that game is mega fun with friends.

IIRC in Magicka, magic is the ONLY thing going. The whole concept of a mana bar only really has relevance in games where you have other options going on at the same time. I take it in Magicka the brute force application doesn't really accomplish much most of the time?

No,but that doesn't change the fact that in Magicka your power is still unlimited, and that is what the op had in mind, unlimited power... I merely pointed him in the game's direction

Yeah, and he'll probably enjoy it, too, but it won't necessarily scratch his itch because *having* unlimited power in Magicka is not the point--you already have it. It becomes fun in games where you're not really supposed to have it and it takes some work to get it.

 

[Nohra]

Go play Magicka then. You're only limited by how fast you can tap the spell combinations.

 

[JMeganSnow]

Sorry, it won't happen. If you swing a sword, you get tired eventually, no matter how powerful you are. Thus, if you cast spells, you should be likewise limited. Just as a health bar is the best way to judge how much you can take in damage, so to is mana/magic bars the best way to measure magical energy.

I dunno about "best". It's a solid VISUAL way to represent it, sure. But there are others, and even other ways that don't just use visual cues.