Death to the Mana Bar!

[Kadoodle]

I, as a dedicated RPG fan have often been dumbfounded by magic systems in games. Why in a world that calls itself High Fantasy do I have the magical capabilities of a real life magician? When SO much of modern fantasy is based on the work of Tolkien why do I "run out of spells"? Gandalf didnt have this problem! Even HARRY POTTER didnt have this GLARING HORRID limitation! I speak of course of the mana bar that seemingly age old mechanic that has you unable to summon up so much as a puff of smoke at just the wrong instant to lead to your demise at the hands of that smelly warrior! While recent games have gone the route of using cooldowns instead I have to ask why limit it at all? For game balance? The ENTIRE point of magic is to be unbalanced. I want to summon skeleton armies from my fallen foes and conjure firestorms to destroy cities in an instant! I dont want to retreat helplessly while waiting for my magical talents to recharge! So.... who feels they have the wit to finally defeat this horrid blemish on modern gaming? Who among you can help put this flawed concept to final rest? WHO AMONG YOU CAN...oh screw it! Anybody got any ideas?

Oh, when I read the title of the thread I thought you had something against Yahtzee.

 

[JMeganSnow]

Becaues otherwise the most powerful spell would be spammed, ruining any challenge taking away skill or thought, you might as well just have one long QTE.

That takes timing, though, which defeats the "no skill" aspect.

How does it take timing? You have a big on screen prompt. Not to mention that it would be very boring.

For a fraction of a second. Otherwise it's not a "quick-time" event, it's just a PROMPT.

QTE's are still easy.

For people with decent reflexes, yes. However, that still takes SOME skill. Honestly you've beaten the dead horse of my original not-that-funny joke until it resembles mashed potatoes. Horse-flavored mashed potatoes.

 

[t3h br0th3r]

I, as a dedicated RPG fan have often been dumbfounded by magic systems in games. Why in a world that calls itself High Fantasy do I have the magical capabilities of a real life magician? When SO much of modern fantasy is based on the work of Tolkien why do I "run out of spells"? Gandalf didnt have this problem! Even HARRY POTTER didnt have this GLARING HORRID limitation! I speak of course of the mana bar that seemingly age old mechanic that has you unable to summon up so much as a puff of smoke at just the wrong instant to lead to your demise at the hands of that smelly warrior! While recent games have gone the route of using cooldowns instead I have to ask why limit it at all? For game balance? The ENTIRE point of magic is to be unbalanced. I want to summon skeleton armies from my fallen foes and conjure firestorms to destroy cities in an instant! I dont want to retreat helplessly while waiting for my magical talents to recharge! So.... who feels they have the wit to finally defeat this horrid blemish on modern gaming? Who among you can help put this flawed concept to final rest? WHO AMONG YOU CAN...oh screw it! Anybody got any ideas?

And the ranger smiles, notches a bow, and prepares to pwn you again.

the reason you don't have unlimited spells is because what you do have are powerful. Harry Potter had unlimited manna because...hes Harry Potter. i mean seriously, nearly any combat oriented character could take Harry and his crew.

Gandalf never ran out of magic because he knew how to conserve manna. Although he did run low a few times, like the fight with douche-wizard.

The reason you have limited spells is for the same reason I, the mighty and powerful Ranger, (your arch foe and single weakness) don't have a Tommy Gun, Pet Elder Dragon, and Artillery Support.

It would be super OP and all the other classes, like the warriors and rouges, would have nothing to counter with.

 

[Nate Corran]

I thought this was going to be about Yahtzees bar in Australia, I am actually kind of disappointed as it would have made an interesting topic.

I was kind of hoping for that, too. I'd kill to have one of those here in the States.

Agreed.

OT: I'm chill with mana bars. Its another tool to make the actions you makes in-games have consequence

 

[trooper6]

RPG's like Morrowind, Oblivion, Gothic, Diablo, Titan Quest? There are just as many RPG's (or shoot and loot games at least) where you're all by your lonesome as ones where you have a party. Most PEN AND PAPER games are based around a party dynamic because, well, they're supposed to be a social activity. But I've seen gaming groups that were only 2 people, a GM and a single player. It feels a bit weird, though, because the GM spends half the time talking to himself like some sort of crazy person.

The GM spending half of the time talking to himself like some sort of crazy person would be half the fun of a 1 on 1 campaign!

Anyway, The "Mage as uperpowerful with no limitations" works when mages are the only options. But if the game offers options between weak warriors, tragic thieves, and overpowered Wizards, people are going to generally avoid the rogue and warrior...or take them and be irritated.

Magicka, from the way people are describing it, seems like twitch gaming...which I'm not sure would be my cup of tea.

If I were running a table top game with mages who were unbelievably powerful, I'd want all the players to be mages, or none of them. I could see a very interesting campaign set in Dragon Age's Tevinter Imperium. With a non-Mage party, the players could be slaves trying to get freedom, or people from some other part of Thedas trying to topple the evil Imperium. If they are a Mage party, then the challenges have to include a lot of things that can't just be solved by a massive fireball spell. I'm thinking crazy political machinations among magisters.

But a computer game is not yet so good at simulating crazy political machinations or scheming. The social parts of computer games need a lot more development. But I think that all might be fore a different post!

 

[JMeganSnow]

If I were running a table top game with mages who were unbelievably powerful, I'd want all the players to be mages, or none of them. I could see a very interesting campaign set in Dragon Age's Tevinter Imperium. With a non-Mage party, the players could be slaves trying to get freedom, or people from some other part of Thedas trying to topple the evil Imperium. If they are a Mage party, then the challenges have to include a lot of things that can't just be solved by a massive fireball spell. I'm thinking crazy political machinations among magisters.

What I'd do, is have everyone make up 1 mage and 1 non-mage and run both parties simultaneously. That'd make for a sweet game.

 

[Frankster]

No they won't. They'll press f5 and reload the game.

Damn the pc master race and their ungodly quickload/quicksave powers D:

 

[trooper6]

If I were running a table top game with mages who were unbelievably powerful, I'd want all the players to be mages, or none of them. I could see a very interesting campaign set in Dragon Age's Tevinter Imperium. With a non-Mage party, the players could be slaves trying to get freedom, or people from some other part of Thedas trying to topple the evil Imperium. If they are a Mage party, then the challenges have to include a lot of things that can't just be solved by a massive fireball spell. I'm thinking crazy political machinations among magisters.

What I'd do, is have everyone make up 1 mage and 1 non-mage and run both parties simultaneously. That'd make for a sweet game.

That *would* make for a sweet game.

Or you could do like a good friend of mine did. He ran a campaign set in a magical castle complex that housed and protected the 10 noble magical families from "the things outside." Each player made one head of a noble family, one teenage noble, one soldier, and one servant. Reading the recaps, that game seemed completely epic. I had the honor of being able to sit in for one session. It was pretty awesome.

 

[Ace of Spades]

Because without a limitation on the number of spells you can cast, the game would swiftly become too easy and therefore, boring. Turn on an infinite mana cheat on any magic-based game and see how long it's still fun.

 

[zHellas]

I thought this was going to be about Yahtzees bar in Australia, I am actually kind of disappointed as it would have made an interesting topic.

I agree, and this was pretty much my exact thought upon seeing the topic.

OT:

From what I've gathered by skimming your post, what you have a problem with is restrictions on growth and growth itself.

 

[MercurySteam]

So this isn't about 'the' Mana Bar? Didn't expect that.

 

[magnuslion]

I, as a dedicated RPG fan have often been dumbfounded by magic systems in games. Why in a world that calls itself High Fantasy do I have the magical capabilities of a real life magician? When SO much of modern fantasy is based on the work of Tolkien why do I "run out of spells"? Gandalf didnt have this problem! Even HARRY POTTER didnt have this GLARING HORRID limitation! I speak of course of the mana bar that seemingly age old mechanic that has you unable to summon up so much as a puff of smoke at just the wrong instant to lead to your demise at the hands of that smelly warrior! While recent games have gone the route of using cooldowns instead I have to ask why limit it at all? For game balance? The ENTIRE point of magic is to be unbalanced. I want to summon skeleton armies from my fallen foes and conjure firestorms to destroy cities in an instant! I dont want to retreat helplessly while waiting for my magical talents to recharge! So.... who feels they have the wit to finally defeat this horrid blemish on modern gaming? Who among you can help put this flawed concept to final rest? WHO AMONG YOU CAN...oh screw it! Anybody got any ideas?

Haven't read the Silmarillion I take it? You imply that Gandalf ran around indiscriminately throwing magic about, and that his power was limitless or near to it. But go back and count the number of times he actually does use magic. it is fairly limited. He had a certain amount of power and used it at key points to accomplish his goals. Your argument about the purpose of magic is invalid. You do not even have even basis for making such a claim.

 

[sidecord]

we use the recharge system in our D&D games, its in the Unearthed Arcana, best for us so far

 

[LikeDustInTheWind]

If it was just you against equally super-awesome mages and massive armies that could get pretty epic.

 

[JMeganSnow]

If it was just you against equally super-awesome mages and massive armies that could get pretty epic.

This is pretty much the premise of Exalted.

 

[bbad89]

You people are forgetting Magicka.

 

[JMeganSnow]

If I were running a table top game with mages who were unbelievably powerful, I'd want all the players to be mages, or none of them. I could see a very interesting campaign set in Dragon Age's Tevinter Imperium. With a non-Mage party, the players could be slaves trying to get freedom, or people from some other part of Thedas trying to topple the evil Imperium. If they are a Mage party, then the challenges have to include a lot of things that can't just be solved by a massive fireball spell. I'm thinking crazy political machinations among magisters.

What I'd do, is have everyone make up 1 mage and 1 non-mage and run both parties simultaneously. That'd make for a sweet game.

That *would* make for a sweet game.

Or you could do like a good friend of mine did. He ran a campaign set in a magical castle complex that housed and protected the 10 noble magical families from "the things outside." Each player made one head of a noble family, one teenage noble, one soldier, and one servant. Reading the recaps, that game seemed completely epic. I had the honor of being able to sit in for one session. It was pretty awesome.

Yeah, I could see doing something like that. I almost have in the past because I let my players invent and give input on many of my NPC's. It's more fun for everyone that way.

 

[trooper6]

Yeah, I could see doing something like that. I almost have in the past because I let my players invent and give input on many of my NPC's. It's more fun for everyone that way.

You know, I've never run a 1-on-1 game, but I think it would be a really a good set up for an Espionage game.

 

[pwnsore]

Magicka. That is the game you are looking for. It has no mana, no cooldowns. You can full-heal yourself instantly. If you practice, you can call down an asteroid storm then quickly shield yourself from it almost instantly. Your only limit is your ability to come up with solutions to whatever new the game throws at you. And yet somehow, the game remains extremely difficult. VLAD IS NOT A VAMPIRE!!!

 

[holy_secret]

I, as a dedicated RPG fan have often been dumbfounded by magic systems in games. Why in a world that calls itself High Fantasy do I have the magical capabilities of a real life magician? When SO much of modern fantasy is based on the work of Tolkien why do I "run out of spells"? Gandalf didnt have this problem! Even HARRY POTTER didnt have this GLARING HORRID limitation! I speak of course of the mana bar that seemingly age old mechanic that has you unable to summon up so much as a puff of smoke at just the wrong instant to lead to your demise at the hands of that smelly warrior! While recent games have gone the route of using cooldowns instead I have to ask why limit it at all? For game balance? The ENTIRE point of magic is to be unbalanced. I want to summon skeleton armies from my fallen foes and conjure firestorms to destroy cities in an instant! I dont want to retreat helplessly while waiting for my magical talents to recharge! So.... who feels they have the wit to finally defeat this horrid blemish on modern gaming? Who among you can help put this flawed concept to final rest? WHO AMONG YOU CAN...oh screw it! Anybody got any ideas?

Final Fantasy XIII Has no MP System. Although the Summons can only be cast once per battle, so I guess it kinda goes against what you want.

How 'bout that mate?