Delightfully offensive

[Bizzaro Stormy]

So over the last few years I've seen more and more people get their knickers in a twist over offensive/non-PC content in games. Personally I think offensiveness is in the eye of the beholder and can be rather entertaining if done right. So please pick a gaming moment that would give any enlightened/self-righteousness person the vapors and tell us about it. Seriously, pick your favorite ist or ism and how it was exploited in all of its pixelated glory on screen!

 

[Vault101]

The Saints row series I'm sure has plenty of "offensive" things I'm sure....other than that I nothing comes to mind

Personally I think offensiveness is in the eye of the beholder

it...really isn't... you can't really tell other people if they should find something offensive or not

...can I bring out my stick metaphor? cause I think its relevant

if you accidentally hit me in the face with a stick, you'd probably apologize, most people would because they understand immedetly I could be in pain,and while it was unintentional they understand it was a slight upon me... and I'd probably be like "thats cool, mabye be careful with your stick next time".again people immediately understand the pain part...its tangible

but how people react to something that isn't as "tangible" as pain:


[quote/]"Ow that hurt!"
"no it didn't"
"uhhh...yes it does"
"no it doesn't , it only hurts if I meant to hit you, I didn't mean to"
"yeah but...you can see the bruise starting to show"
"maybe it hurts because you expected it to hurt and you clealry have a problem with sticks..why do you hate sticks?"
"I don't hate sticks! its just yours hit me in the face"
"IT DIDN'T BECAUSE IT WAS UNINTENTIONAL"
"I know that!"
"then why are you are you freaking out over it?? what the fuck is your problem?"
"because my face hurts!!"
"I don't believe you! youre just overly sensitive!"
"...mabye in future carry your stick closer to your body, so you wont hit people"
"you DARE suggest I change my behaviour? I DON'T HIT PEOPLE WITH SITCKS!
"you just did"
"No I didn't! stick hitters are tattooed thugs who run around after midnight! do I look like a goddamn stick hitter?"
"no but you did hit me in the face with a stick"
"NO I DIDN'T!!!"[/quote]

my face hurts/I found that offensive <- people dissmiss the very idea that somone could be legitimatly offended by what they say or things in general, because we've been told that those bad people...the racists the sexists the homophbobes are other people characters with cartoonish veiw points (like the KKK or ultra conservative christians) and that nothing WE say (normal people) could in anyway cause offense

 

[Frission]

The Saints row series I'm sure has plenty of "offensive" things I'm sure....other than that I nothing comes to mind

Personally I think offensiveness is in the eye of the beholder

it...really isn't... you can't really tell other people if they should find something offensive or not

...can I bring out my stick metaphor? cause I think its relevant

if you accidentally hit me in the face with a stick, you'd probably apologize, most people would because they understand immedetly I could be in pain,and while it was unintentional they understand it was a slight upon me... and I'd probably be like "thats cool, mabye be careful with your stick next time".again people immediately understand the pain part...its tangible

but how people react to something that isn't as "tangible" as pain:

my face hurts/I found that offensive <- people dissmiss the very idea that somone could be legitimatly offended by what they say or things in general, because we've been told that those bad people...the racists the sexists the homophbobes are other people characters with cartoonish veiw points (like the KKK or ultra conservative christians) and that nothing WE say (normal people) could in anyway cause offense

I think it's a concept that goes both ways. You can't tell someone they can't be offended, but you also can't say that a person should be offended. Offense also becomes more complicated when you try to pass through the barriers of class, religion and nationality as well. For example, I'm offended by private pools. Why someone may ask, how could you possibly be offended by private pools? Because I think it's a crass waste of water and an almost vulgar display of wealth. That view is probably not common though, and while there are topics that are commonly found as offensive you also have to make allowances that there are different types of people.

That and there's a question of whether offense should even matter. We live in a free and open society, not a closed society like a theocracy. Sometimes offense has to be counter-balanced by liberty of thought.

OT: The most recent game I've played like that was the Paradox Strategy game series: EU4 and CK2. It's not obvious at first sight, but a lot of the little blurbs and prompts for the events shown in the game are very very cynical and a lot of terrible things can be committed in the game, if you think about it, such as incest, infanticide and genocide. The black humor that can come from the games is pretty hilarious though.

EDIT: As MarsAtlas also mentioned, homosexuality is offensive to homophobes, but I don't think that it means that we should give weight to the cries of being offended in that case.

 

[tippy2k2]

I'm a huge fan of dark comedies and I also am of the mind that, in the right hands, nothing is sacred.

For gaming, you've got the obvious candidate of Saints Row. Whether I am spraying shit all over the place (like...literally, that's not a metaphor), beating people to death with giant dildo bats, or whatever wacky adventure I am currently experiencing, it's great.

I am also greatly enjoying Far Cry 4. What makes this game so much better than 3 (and I greatly enjoyed 3) are these characters. Whether it's the obvious rip on the American Gun Nut that is Hurk ("You need to keep a low profile, like a republican living in San Francisco."), the absolute insanity that is the dictator Pagan Min ("Who keeps lighting candles all over the place? GREG! Take a note; Candles are now illegal and considered treason. Anyone caught lighting candles will be executed"), or the dominatrix-inspired Yuma, there's fun for everyone in Kyrat!

 

[Bizzaro Stormy]

My thought with this thread was for people to lighten up. There are cultural norms in any society that are considered offensive, unsettling, disturbing, etc. and these days it seems to have expanded to include anything that could possibly upset any given group or sub group.

We say, "That's racist, sexist, fill in the blank phobic, elitist, ect." without even considering that recognizing the differences between people and having a good laugh at our own expense is worthwhile and can bring us closer together.

I've seen far too many articles and forum threads saying something or other is not right and saying it in a damning way. I really want to see some folks saying "that's not right" while laughing about it. Lets laugh at ourselves. Let's be offensive and love it!

One of the key elements in entertainment, particularly any form of escapist fantasy such as video games, is to ignore these cultural norms and let people explore what could be.

The Saints row series I'm sure has plenty of "offensive" things I'm sure....other than that I nothing comes to mind

With that in mind the Saints Row games offer many fine examples of twisted fun. I enjoyed the desperate attempts of the developers to not look racist in Saints Row 2. They had one gang the Ronin that was clearly meant to be Japanese, and another the Sons of Samedi that is clearly meant to be a black Jamaican gang. Yet both groups are almost ludicrously racially diverse in their membership. I remember playing it and just shaking my head and smiling at their efforts.

So everyone, don't be shy. Bring up those things you've seen and played that others would look down on and tell us how they made you feel good.

 

[The Wykydtron]

I've not been keeping up with recent gaming news because it's fucking depressing and has too many isms for me to even care about (TL;DR anything that involves a man and a woman can be interpreted as sexist if you have an agenda to push, and can nitpick/twist the facts hard enough so why bother even arguing with these people) so i dunno any of the standard controversies milling around so i'll go for anything devised by 4chan.

Anyone who doesn't browse the internet for long enough to know 4chan's reputation and checks it out in a "I wonder what this 4chan thing is" type way would find it awfully offensive 99% of the time I assume. I find it hilarious.

The best example that comes to mind is Ebola-chan. Truly a terrible virus laying waste to parts of Africa being turned into a female anime character wearing a nurse-esque uniform with Ebola shaped pigtails hair is something that could only come from 4chan. She's actually pretty well drawn and designed as a themed character. Not even mad.

 

[Vault101]

My thought with this thread was for people to lighten up. There are cultural norms in any society that are considered offensive, unsettling, disturbing, etc. and these days it seems to have expanded to include anything that could possibly upset any given group or sub group.

the "lighten up" mentality is more often than not a deflection tactic and absolves us of thinking about our (or others) behaviour

[quote/] without even considering that recognizing the differences between people and having a good laugh at our own expense is worthwhile and can bring us closer together.[/quote]
there goes my gag reflex...

I'm sorry but that kind of schmaltzy justification is just disingenuous 99% of the time

[quote/]One of the key elements in entertainment, particularly any form of escapist fantasy such as video games, is to ignore these cultural norms and let people explore what could be.[/quote]
except its funny when that escapist fantasy leaves out and or mocks/deamonizes certain groups in our society...oh wait sorry it isn't funny

but you also can't say that a person should be offended.

I'm not saying anyone [I/]should[/I] be offended...I'm saying they should think about it instead of falling back on stupid chestnuts


[quote/]That and there's a question of whether offense should even matter
.[/quote]
when it affects groups of vulnerable people [I/]of coarse[/I] it should fucking matter

 

[Frission]

/snip

Look, I know this might be condescending or annoying to say, but, calm down. Read most of the post and stop trying to put words in someone's mouth. No one likes that, including you, seeing what you just said.

Here was the a less cut part of my post:

'That and there's a question of whether offense should even matter. We live in a free and open society, not a closed society like a theocracy. Sometimes offense has to be counter-balanced by liberty of thought.'

Sometimes. In this case I was thinking that if for example you got offended by a cartoon, that doesn't excuse you going violent. You might be thinking about groups getting harassed, but there's also the possibility of something like MarsAtlas said: 'homosexuality is offensive to homophobes, but I don't think that it means that we should give weight to the cries of being offended in that case.' It's a problem in degrees.

I mean imagine if I flipped out and said that the importance you put on offense means that you support the Christian groups which want to ban all depictions of homosexuality because it's offensive to them. It's not what you meant, but it's still defamatory and it wastes everyone's time.

Jeez.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

Personally I think offensiveness is in the eye of the beholder

it...really isn't... you can't really tell other people if they should find something offensive or not

Does this apply to people who are offended by tran rights, homosexuals, interracial couples, women being able to vote, black people being able to sit where they want on the bus etc?

...can I bring out my stick metaphor? cause I think its relevant

Please don't. That metaphor is better described as a blatant strawman that is held up by the fact that it is pretty much universally agreed that being hit in the face with a stick hurts and is otherwise rude (there my be some who disagree, but not enough to be note worthy). Yet, whether or not depictions in media and certain uses of words are offensive and rude is not even close to unanimous agreement.

Look around, how many topics are there discussing depictions in media/social opinions vs the number discussing whether or not hitting people in the face with a stick is offensive behaviour?
The reason there is so much discussion about the former, and none about the latter, is because there is so much disagreement about what is and isn't offensive.

my face hurts/I found that offensive <- people dissmiss the very idea that somone could be legitimatly offended by what they say or things in general, because we've been told that those bad people...the racists the sexists the homophbobes are other people characters with cartoonish veiw points (like the KKK or ultra conservative christians) and that nothing WE say (normal people) could in anyway cause offense

Please explain why the homophobes and racists aren't legitimately offended. Are you not dismissing their offence?

 

[wulf3n]

it...really isn't... you can't really tell other people if they should find something offensive or not

That's exactly what the OP is saying. What people find offensive is what they find offensive, there's no definitive checklist of this is what everyone finds offensive, ergo it's in the eye of the beholder.

...can I bring out my stick metaphor? cause I think its relevant

if you accidentally hit me in the face with a stick, you'd probably apologize, most people would because they understand immedetly I could be in pain,and while it was unintentional they understand it was a slight upon me... and I'd probably be like "thats cool, mabye be careful with your stick next time".again people immediately understand the pain part...its tangible

but how people react to something that isn't as "tangible" as pain:


[quote/]"Ow that hurt!"
"no it didn't"
"uhhh...yes it does"
"no it doesn't , it only hurts if I meant to hit you, I didn't mean to"
"yeah but...you can see the bruise starting to show"
"maybe it hurts because you expected it to hurt and you clealry have a problem with sticks..why do you hate sticks?"
"I don't hate sticks! its just yours hit me in the face"
"IT DIDN'T BECAUSE IT WAS UNINTENTIONAL"
"I know that!"
"then why are you are you freaking out over it?? what the fuck is your problem?"
"because my face hurts!!"
"I don't believe you! youre just overly sensitive!"
"...mabye in future carry your stick closer to your body, so you wont hit people"
"you DARE suggest I change my behaviour? I DON'T HIT PEOPLE WITH SITCKS!
"you just did"
"No I didn't! stick hitters are tattooed thugs who run around after midnight! do I look like a goddamn stick hitter?"
"no but you did hit me in the face with a stick"
"NO I DIDN'T!!!"

my face hurts/I found that offensive <- people dissmiss the very idea that somone could be legitimatly offended by what they say or things in general, because we've been told that those bad people...the racists the sexists the homophbobes are other people characters with cartoonish veiw points (like the KKK or ultra conservative christians) and that nothing WE say (normal people) could in anyway cause offense[/quote]

That doesn't really work as while practically everyone (unless you've got Congenital analgesia or leprosy) would feel pain from getting hit in the face with a stick, someone getting offended by something said or done or is dependant on what that individual finds offensive.

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

Well this thread quickly turned to shit (and comparing offense to physical violence, oh for fuck sake Vault).

Anyhow, GTA V was choc-a-block with "oooh you can't say/do that" humour. I haven't even gotten around to finishing the thing and it's bloody hilarious. I'd single something out, but it's been a while since I played it.

At first I was hoping this would be a general thread and not relegated to gaming, I was ever so looking forward to posting this

Spoiler

 

[Zhukov]

Ummm... An offensive moment that will make a SJW bleed tears of blood...

I couldn't find anything offensive, but that dialogue did make my ears leak blood, so I guess you weren't quite lying.

 

[Bizzaro Stormy]

Well this thread quickly turned to shit (and comparing offense to physical violence, oh for fuck sake Vault).

Anyhow, GTA V was choc-a-block with "oooh you can't say/do that" humour. I haven't even gotten around to finishing the thing and it's bloody hilarious. I'd single something out, but it's been a while since I played it.

At first I was hoping this would be a general thread and not relegated to gaming, I was ever so looking forward to posting this

Spoiler

You know what, expanding this from just games to any form of media doesn't sound too terrible. You've convinced me!

Ummm... An offensive moment that will make a SJW bleed tears of blood...

I couldn't find anything offensive, but that dialogue did make my ears leak blood, so I guess you weren't quite lying.

Sadly I need to find something to wipe up Zhukov's blood with. Ah, here's something! (grabs a child's security blanket)

 

[Therumancer]

So over the last few years I've seen more and more people get their knickers in a twist over offensive/non-PC content in games. Personally I think offensiveness is in the eye of the beholder and can be rather entertaining if done right. So please pick a gaming moment that would give any enlightened/self-righteousness person the vapors and tell us about it. Seriously, pick your favorite ist or ism and how it was exploited in all of its pixelated glory on screen!

My basic attitude is that if you try and do anything it's going to be offensive to someone. Liberals in their attempts to be tolerant have lead to universal intolerance so to speak. If you make a video game and want to make it anything at all like the real world, current or historical, the people who the bad guys are based on are likely to be given a platform to scream about how wrong it was and have liberals jumping up and down to help you make an issue out of it. We've seen this in the terms of everything from the game "Mercenaries 2: World In Flames" being set in the real life country of Venezuela, to claims about games based around modern warfare being offensively jingonistic, to arguments that "Far Cry 3" is racist because the white Protagonist winds up becoming the hero of a native resistance in the quest to rescue his friends. On other fronts we've had demands for more women in action games, but when some show up as exaggerated bad guys in an exaggerated action game like "Hit Man" and wind up being defeated in a trailer we're told that's sexist. When "Assassin's Creed 3" came out we were apparently supposed to feel disgusted by that one too for being too pro-American even if it did portray George Washington as a psychopath in some of it's DLC... and it just goes on.

Right now as a general rule your only enemy can be Zombies, Nazis, Aliens, or White American Men, pick anything else and your virtually baiting an attack for people to come after you for being the worst kind of person. Even on that list it seems like it might be being shortened because I guess Germany thinks we need to pretend the Nazis didn't exist (and edit them out of everything or refuse products with their involvement), and people have gotten so uptight about "genocide" that wiping out evil alien races is now a big deal, I'm personally waiting for the day we see serious cases made by left wingers in geek media that we should protest the whole "Alien" franchise for that reason for the message that it's idiotic not to wipe the entire species out (indeed preserving the aliens for study/potential usefulness is how the corporations ultimately wind up screwing everyone over). Of course when I say "Aliens" here I'm not just talking about Xenomorphs. I've heard arguments that aren't quite mainstream yet that "evil aliens" are just people making racist metaphors.... so basically when we hack down orcs (not really aliens but in this catagories) or fly around space exclaiming "the only good Klingon is a dead Klingon" as we demolish ship after ship in our quest to defend earth, we're likely to be called the worst kind of people in the next few years.

That said I can't think of any real cases where I feel an "ist" or "ism" has been used well, because when it comes to fantasy in things like video games I don't really feel those terms apply. In my mind if some Dwarf goes off about wanting to kill every Goblin in the world and you start ranting about racism, pointing out the Dwarf is white and the goblins have a dark skin tone, or whatever, your being bloody mental. I don't consider Van Helsing wanting to eliminate every Vampire on earth to be some kind of racism that we are supposed to be ashamed of, especially not in context (and honestly that only makes sense when you start re-defining Vampires into something that misses the point of what a Vampire is supposed to be anyway, basically "real" Vampires are not simply super humans that sparkle).

 

[Serinanth]

That's difficult for me as I don't take offense to much. It has to be something that questions my character. Seeing as they are video games, not real life, I take even less offence to whatever is being portrayed. I've been disgusted and or found reprehensible things I have seen in video games and movies but I cant think of a time I personally felt offended.

Then again it could be the fact that I'm a middle aged white guy, I'm typically portrayed as an awesome badass in video games and movies.

I work in the corporate world and when interacting with day shift (us night owls are wired differently) I must turn my filter up to high, because simple cursewords are somehow offensive (I will never understand that) even aside from that people can find the simplest and downright absurd things offensive. As the years have gone by I have noticed it getting worse and worse as well and I don't know if the people are actually offended or just playing the corporate game.

In those situations I have found the best response to be.

Just because you're offended doesn't make you right.

You know what I did find offensive? When I found out a certain EX content provider on this site that I genuinely enjoyed, even when I disagreed with him had some nasty things to say about gamer's on his twitter feed. Because of that I wont be following his exploits to wherever he goes.

 

[FrozenEscapee]

The best recent example I can think of is South Park: The Stick of Truth. Above-average quantities of offensive content, even by South Park standards, while still being a fun game. I can't think of which ism to highlight for the OP...all of them?

 

[MrFalconfly]

The Saints row series I'm sure has plenty of "offensive" things I'm sure....other than that I nothing comes to mind

Personally I think offensiveness is in the eye of the beholder

it...really isn't... you can't really tell other people if they should find something offensive or not

...can I bring out my stick metaphor? cause I think its relevant

if you accidentally hit me in the face with a stick, you'd probably apologize, most people would because they understand immedetly I could be in pain,and while it was unintentional they understand it was a slight upon me... and I'd probably be like "thats cool, mabye be careful with your stick next time".again people immediately understand the pain part...its tangible

but how people react to something that isn't as "tangible" as pain:


[quote/]"Ow that hurt!"
"no it didn't"
"uhhh...yes it does"
"no it doesn't , it only hurts if I meant to hit you, I didn't mean to"
"yeah but...you can see the bruise starting to show"
"maybe it hurts because you expected it to hurt and you clealry have a problem with sticks..why do you hate sticks?"
"I don't hate sticks! its just yours hit me in the face"
"IT DIDN'T BECAUSE IT WAS UNINTENTIONAL"
"I know that!"
"then why are you are you freaking out over it?? what the fuck is your problem?"
"because my face hurts!!"
"I don't believe you! youre just overly sensitive!"
"...mabye in future carry your stick closer to your body, so you wont hit people"
"you DARE suggest I change my behaviour? I DON'T HIT PEOPLE WITH SITCKS!
"you just did"
"No I didn't! stick hitters are tattooed thugs who run around after midnight! do I look like a goddamn stick hitter?"
"no but you did hit me in the face with a stick"
"NO I DIDN'T!!!"

my face hurts/I found that offensive <- people dissmiss the very idea that somone could be legitimatly offended by what they say or things in general, because we've been told that those bad people...the racists the sexists the homophbobes are other people characters with cartoonish veiw points (like the KKK or ultra conservative christians) and that nothing WE say (normal people) could in anyway cause offense[/quote]

That's not an analogy, that's a strawman.

Physical harm doesn't equate to having your jimmies rustled.

One (the stick) results in actual harm being done to a person (sub-epidermal haemorrhaging, possible gashes, and maybe even broken bones), while the other (the offensive prat) will only ever result in someone thinking that you're an arse.

And given that we (or at least I) live in an egalitarian society, I'd be really bloody offended at the thought that we determine who can say what jokes depending on something as fucking petty as skin-colour.

 

[Therumancer]

I liked Saint's Row 3 and 4, and I've loved what I've played of the Borderlands series, which apparently had some people with their knickers in a twist. With what exactly, I don't understand, but it had some people mad. I haven't played South Park: The Stick of Truth, but I'm fairly certain that I'd enjoy it, because there's always something to enjoy (and usually get offended by) in the world of South Park. While they're not generally games with a huge focus on comedy, the Dragon Age series was deemed offensive by a lot of homophobes, same for an early access game of mine (somebody asked for it to be removed from the game, others asked for an option to turn it off) though that game has a bit more focus on humour.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone seriously complain about Saint's Row, but then again I haven't been paying attention. South Park seemed to get few criticisms (basically what you think of the show is what you'll think of the game) it's only real "stand out" moment was when Australia objected to an anal probing scene and an abortion schtick and so the company replaced those scenes with a picture of a crying koala to get it released, but made it so all the content was actually intact and it was relatively easy to re-enable.

When it comes to Dragon Age, that oftentimes gets exaggerated. It generally comes down to the first game and Inquisition. In the first game there is this character called Zevran who has a really poorly scripted romance, where if your just being friendly to the guy it flags as romance progression. It also doesn't make him being bi all that obvious to begin with if I remember (it's been a while). The bottom line is a lot of people were irked when they were just being friendly with the guy and next thing you know your literally rolling around naked on the ground with the dude. It oftentimes makes some lists as the worst "romance" in RPG history ever for that reason. Basically it surprised a ton
of people, and there is a difference between say disliking gays, and wanting to see your virtual avatar rolling around on the ground with one suddenly. In Inquisition it's more of a political thing. Basically there is a plot centric NPC in your entourage who is gay, which in of itself is no big deal, however as the game progresses you get involved in a sequence of events that basically amounts to a lot of political preachyness and the game telling you to sign off on your agreement with the writer on gay rights or face penalties in game for it. Even people who more or less agree with the basic statement I've talked to thought it was heavy handed and ridiculous. Basically people play video games to get away from politics and either side of the warfare over social issues. Of course some people tend to label anything in these directions as being "homophobic". It mostly comes down to poor implementation, in terms of actual content, despite being present there isn't enough homosexual content in Bioware games to be that big a deal anyway. The only really over the top rants I've heard came from news programs acting like Mass Effect was a Lesbian space orgy. Of course I suppose on forums like this simply not being pro gay tends to lead to people acting like your a hood wearing psychopath ready to engage in casual genocide.

To be honest, over the years I've heard more serious criticisms of games being too violent than over sexual content or racism. That's pretty much a recent thing, and mostly an indication of what the liberal movement has become and it's control of the media. When you look back at the first time interactive movies came around and used digital video and such, you had a lot of people concerned about virtual snuff flicks and the like, even though the games that were being brought up for examination like "Night Trap" and "Voyeur" weren't even close. I suspect that kind of attention and the possibility to eventually make such things if one was so inclined is why that style of game (interactive movie0 died out only to make a return (with newer technology) in the hands of people like David Cage. The quintessential criticism of video games, especially American ones, has generally been that ultra violence is okay, but so much as show a bare breast or a sex scene and it's a big deal, and it's also perhaps the most enduring, and I imagine will still be out there annoying people even after the current style of complaints has long since faded.

As a general rule claims of racism and such are just modern liberalism gone mad, by people who have never really encountered real racism (which is arguments are always made about it being subtle and such). For the sake of making a point I will say that there ARE racist video games out there if you look, but as a general rule they are obscure enough to not be seriously criticized. As a general rule the people doing the criticizing would never bother to actually look towards the places where you could find such a thing, and you can get more attention projecting onto mainstream games anyway. For example while now a good number of years old there was a game floating around called "Ethnic Cleansing" which was a shooter that had you playing your choice of a KKK or Aryan Brotherhood member (if I recall) taking white justice to the ghettoes, and discovering a world wide conspiracy run by the Jews which ends with a showdown with a rocket launcher wielding Ariel Sharon (The Israeli leader). The game was full of instructions on how to get a hold of real world white supremacist groups and pick up more of their propaganda. Objectively speaking though the game was crap, even for the time it was made, and like REAL racism so bloody obscure that pretty much nobody has ever heard about it. You don't just casually find this stuff, you generally have to seek it out, and when you find real racism it's so far out there on the fringe it's obvious it's not influencing much of anything, the guys doing it trying to seem loud and Omni-present while they are actually pretty much in hiding. You generally speaking do not find this kind of content in video games your going to buy from a mainstream storefront.

 

[Steve Waltz]

The Saints row series I'm sure has plenty of "offensive" things I'm sure....other than that I nothing comes to mind

Personally I think offensiveness is in the eye of the beholder

it...really isn't... you can't really tell other people if they should find something offensive or not

...can I bring out my stick metaphor? cause I think its relevant

if you accidentally hit me in the face with a stick, you'd probably apologize, most people would because they understand immedetly I could be in pain,and while it was unintentional they understand it was a slight upon me... and I'd probably be like "thats cool, mabye be careful with your stick next time".again people immediately understand the pain part...its tangible

but how people react to something that isn't as "tangible" as pain:


[quote/]"Ow that hurt!"
"no it didn't"
"uhhh...yes it does"
"no it doesn't , it only hurts if I meant to hit you, I didn't mean to"
"yeah but...you can see the bruise starting to show"
"maybe it hurts because you expected it to hurt and you clealry have a problem with sticks..why do you hate sticks?"
"I don't hate sticks! its just yours hit me in the face"
"IT DIDN'T BECAUSE IT WAS UNINTENTIONAL"
"I know that!"
"then why are you are you freaking out over it?? what the fuck is your problem?"
"because my face hurts!!"
"I don't believe you! youre just overly sensitive!"
"...mabye in future carry your stick closer to your body, so you wont hit people"
"you DARE suggest I change my behaviour? I DON'T HIT PEOPLE WITH SITCKS!
"you just did"
"No I didn't! stick hitters are tattooed thugs who run around after midnight! do I look like a goddamn stick hitter?"
"no but you did hit me in the face with a stick"
"NO I DIDN'T!!!"

my face hurts/I found that offensive <- people dissmiss the very idea that somone could be legitimatly offended by what they say or things in general, because we've been told that those bad people...the racists the sexists the homophbobes are other people characters with cartoonish veiw points (like the KKK or ultra conservative christians) and that nothing WE say (normal people) could in anyway cause offense[/quote]

The problem with your stick metaphor is that all women can be hit with the sexist stick, but some women aren?t going to be hurt/offended by it. I think that?s the point he was trying to make by saying ?offensiveness is in the eye of the beholder.?



Honestly, I think I love racism in games with conditions. I either play as the oppressors or the oppressed; I don?t like playing as the majority race with the mindset of everyone is equal and thus we must stop the racism. So the racism in Tales of Symphonia and Valkyria Chronicles was kind of a side thing for me, while I absolutely LOVED the racism that was going on in Dragon Age and Skyrim. I mean, I get a high from getting my emotions toyed with, so actually being entangled in this fictional war on racism really gives me strong emotions. I?m walking around a bar in Riftin and suddenly ?Stay down wind Imperial; I can?t stand your stench.? URGH! It hurts, but feels so good at the same time. Or being a human and hating on Elves in Dragon Age: Origins? For some reason it feels good.

With that said, it?s all complete fiction; any racism in real life is absolutely disgusting, and I say this as a conservative. In real life, people of all are the same and I?d fight with my fists to defend that belief.

 

[Fox12]

My poetry teacher said that you should always aim to offend at least one person in the room. If you aren't, then you've probably failed to say anything.

Parody is fine. South Park and saints row are both pretty crass, but they aren't meant to be taken seriously, so I don't mind. A really controversial example would be the 9/11 parody in the Postal movie. It was awful, but it was kind of funny.

Art with a message can be fine as well. Is Silent Hill 2 offensive? Yes, and it should be. It's dealing with serious subject matter, and it wants you to understand the seriousness of that. I know several people who refuse to play it. Offensive art also pushes boundaries, and can be progressive in ideology. You can't play it safe in art, you need to say something in your work. Therefore, art allows us to break taboos and move forward.

What I don't like is controversy for the sake of it. Hatred and Doctor are two good examples of this. Both seem to claim their right to exist as art, but neither has any purpose or meaning. As a result I find them crass and offensive, but not intellectually stimulating. In that context their offensive nature is not a virtue. Another example would be the Grim Tales comic based on Grim Adventures. I stopped reading pretty early on, because it wasn't very good, but there was a moment where Mandy caused 9/11, and it inspired Grim to work harder. The artist said the purpose was too offend people, but the post didn't really say anything relevant, and it was never brought up again in the story. Why is this offensive, and the Uwe Boll film isn't? Because one was parody, and the other was played straight, showing a difference of intent. People say anything can be art, but I don't think that's really true. Otherwise art, as a word, doesnt have any meaning, and should be cut from the dictionary. I think art needs to say something, it needs to have a message, even if its bad art.

To offend should not be the goal, it should be the byproduct of taking a stand on an issue.