Democrats already retreating from public option before DNC even starts

[Iron]

This is the US we are talking about. Not even our progressives can get anything passed through congress without some serious corporate bribes involved. What does anyone realistically expect to happen? The US has been a full blown corporatocracy for a long time now. Not putting in the bribes means nothing good ever gets done.. We can't even pass a great bill that everyone 100% agrees on without having some meat thrown in there for corporations.

I still don't understand what is a "progressive".
The solution could have been Trump had he not been resisted with every measure available since he was in office. He was sensible, and not hard to influence. I remember people made fun of him for changing his mind after a conversation with Winnie the Pooh. They should have worked with him instead of trying to bring him down.

 

[lil devils x]

Hey, you just have to drop healthcare, the environment, and welfare in general. Then just go tough on crime. It's not hard and it buys you so much.

Until you remember there's a party for that already.

Let's take a look at that .. Hmm The healthcare plan Biden posted MONDAY:

Giving Americans a new choice, a public health insurance option like Medicare. If your insurance company isn’t doing right by you, you should have another, better choice. Whether you’re covered through your employer, buying your insurance on your own, or going without coverage altogether, the Biden Plan will give you the choice to purchase a public health insurance option like Medicare. As in Medicare, the Biden public option will reduce costs for patients by negotiating lower prices from hospitals and other health care providers. It also will better coordinate among all of a patient’s doctors to improve the efficacy and quality of their care, and cover primary care without any co-payments. And it will bring relief to small businesses struggling to afford coverage for their employees.

Plan to Protect and Build on Obamacare | Joe Biden

Joe Biden will protect and build on Obamacare by giving Americans more choice, reducing health care costs, and making the system less complex to navigate.

joebiden.com

Affordable housing:

Joe Biden has a housing policy agenda that is ambitious, technically sound, and politically feasible, and that would — if implemented — be life-changing for millions of low-income and housing-insecure households.

According to original modeling by Columbia University scholars, it could cut child poverty by a third, narrow racial opportunity gaps, and potentially drive progress on the broader middle-class affordability crisis in the largest coastal cities as well.

Joe Biden’s surprisingly visionary housing plan, explained

Cut child poverty by a third, break down racial segregation, and stabilize the economy.

www.vox.com

CLimate Change:

Biden knows there is no greater challenge facing our country and our world. Today, he is outlining a bold plan – a Clean Energy Revolution – to address this grave threat and lead the world in addressing the climate emergency.

Biden believes the Green New Deal is a crucial framework for meeting the climate challenges we face. It powerfully captures two basic truths, which are at the core of his plan: (1) the United States urgently needs to embrace greater ambition on an epic scale to meet the scope of this challenge, and (2) our environment and our economy are completely and totally connected.

Plan for Climate Change and Environmental Justice | Joe Biden

Joe Biden knows climate change is the greatest threat facing our country and our world, and he has a bold plan for a clean energy revolution.

joebiden.com

So lets see .. none of what you stated is true and his stance and plans on his actual site here are not looking bad... and then let's compare his plans to Trumps:
Trump on healthcare:
Trump is trying to get the supreme court to strike down the affordable care act and replace it with .. NOTHING. So it will actually be even worse than it was before the ACA because those charities that used to help people prior to it no longer exist and the people will just die instead.

Trump Administration Asks Supreme Court to Strike Down Affordable Care Act (Published 2020)

If successful, the move would permanently end the health insurance program popularly known as Obamacare and wipe out coverage for as many as 23 million Americans.

www.nytimes.com

Priorities | The White House

President Biden will deliver bold action and immediate relief for American families as the country grapples with converging crises. This will include

www.whitehouse.gov

Trump on Affordable housing:
Trump doesn't believe in affordable housing at all.. In fact, he is actively making it worse!

Trump boasts of pushing low-income housing out of suburbs

The connection between the president’s denigration of low-income housing and racial segregation was not lost on his critics.

www.politico.com

That is why we have more Homeless even before the pandemic than we did when Obama left office.
As for the environment and climate change, Trump doesn't even believe in it and thinks it is some conspiracy because he is delusional so he gutted the EPA and not only are they no longer doing anything to help the environment, he is actively trying to roll back all the progress we made previously:

Trump on climate change report: 'I don't believe it'

Government scientists warn that unchecked global warming will wreak havoc on the US economy.

www.bbc.com

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/climate/trump-environment-rollbacks.html

SO if we are going to compare plans head to head, let's do so accurately and realistically here instead of just make up nonsense and spread unfounded rumors that are not even remotely true.

 

[Buyetyen]

I still don't understand what is a "progressive".
The solution could have been Trump had he not been resisted with every measure available since he was in office. He was sensible, and not hard to influence. I remember people made fun of him for changing his mind after a conversation with Winnie the Pooh. They should have worked with him instead of trying to bring him down.

You give Trump far too much credit. Where does one get the impression that Trump is a "sensible" person? The Republicans tried to do exactly what you describe and Trump fucked them like everybody else. He fired everyone who tried to restrain or direct him and promoted sycophants who only told him what he wanted to hear.

You cannot ration with an irrational person.

 

[lil devils x]

I still don't understand what is a "progressive".
The solution could have been Trump had he not been resisted with every measure available since he was in office. He was sensible, and not hard to influence. I remember people made fun of him for changing his mind after a conversation with Winnie the Pooh. They should have worked with him instead of trying to bring him down.

The solution could have never been Trump. If you had actually followed what Trump has done throughout his life, you would have never even remotely thought that trump would do anything other than what he is doing. He has always been a con artist, a psychopath and liar not capable for caring for anything or anyone but himself. Why do you think even Sesame Street mocked him in the 90's and they like everyone!?

Trump has ALWAYS been easy to influence and manipulate as long as they appealed to his greed. Trump and sensible should have never been used in the same sentence.. ever. Trump has NEVER been sensible. It is like you didn't even know who he was prior to this. He scammed everyone he knew. That is why all of those people who worked with him and for him had to sue him for his broken contracts. he had a fake scam school. He scammed charity, he scammed everyone. That was what he WAS best at and he knows nothing else. LMAO..

A progressive is:

noun
1.(of a group, person, or idea) favoring or implementing social reform or new, liberal ideas.

Definition of progressive

 

[Iron]

You give Trump far too much credit. Where does one get the impression that Trump is a "sensible" person? The Republicans tried to do exactly what you describe and Trump fucked them like everybody else. He fired everyone who tried to restrain or direct him and promoted sycophants who only told him what he wanted to hear.

You cannot ration with an irrational person.

He fired people because they wouldn't do as they were told, even when what they were told was illegal... Aye, he was definitely not a lawyer. Then again, this is his staff. Congress and Senate don't work for the president, and even if they are not on the same level as him, they could have tried to nudge him in the right direction. I'd be entirely mistaken if Trump believes that the representatives actually _work for him_ but that's another issue.

 

[Iron]

The solution could have never been Trump. If you had actually followed what Trump has done throughout his life, you would have never even remotely thought that trump would do anything other than what he is doing. He has always been a con artist, a psychopath and liar not capable for caring for anything or anyone but himself. Why do you think even Sesame Street mocked him in the 90's and they like everyone!?

Trump has ALWAYS been easy to influence and manipulate as long as they appealed to his greed. Trump and sensible should have never been used in the same sentence.. ever. Trump has NEVER been sensible. It is like you didn't even know who he was prior to this. He scammed everyone he knew. That is why all of those people who worked with him and for him had to sue him for his broken contracts. he had a fake scam school. He scammed charity, he scammed everyone. That was what he WAS best at and he knows nothing else. LMAO..

A progressive is:

Definition of progressive

Half of the US voted for him. Sad.

 

[Buyetyen]

He fired people because they wouldn't do as they were told, even when what they were told was illegal... Aye, he was definitely not a lawyer. Then again, this is his staff. Congress and Senate don't work for the president, and even if they are not on the same level as him, they could have tried to nudge him in the right direction. I'd be entirely mistaken if Trump believes that the representatives actually _work for him_ but that's another issue.

Again, you're making a lot of assumptions. Trump always needs enemies. Where none exist, he will create them. If you think he could be controlled, the last 4 years have shown how naive that is.

Half of the US voted for him. Sad.

More like about a quarter. What does this have to do with the point that Trump is an id who cannot be reasoned with?

 

[Iron]

Again, you're making a lot of assumptions.



More like about a quarter. What does this have to do with the point that Trump is an id who cannot be reasoned with?

The second post was a joke. Don't get mad about it. Not a lot of assumptions, I'd say any highschool kid knows the basics about the separation between the representative branch and the executive.
"BUT IRON, Trump is dumber than a fifth grader! hahaha!" Yeah ok whatever. Orangeman bad etc.

 

[Buyetyen]

Orangeman bad etc.

Yes, he is bad. That's kind of why everything's so fucked right now. Don't complain about everybody else's sarcasm when yours is lifted directly form alt-right trolls.

 

[Iron]

Yes, he is bad. That's kind of why everything's so fucked right now. Don't complain about everybody else's sarcasm when yours is lifted directly form alt-right trolls.

I didn't complain about everybody else's sarcasm in this thread. Are you breaking the rules?

Current Events Rules - Please Read Before Posting (Update: 5/8/2020)

Welcome to the new Current Events subforum! This subforum is dedicated to the discussion of current events. Update: 5/8/2020 TO CREATE A THREAD The point of this subforum is to discuss topical subjects with citable sources. It's not for creating threads just to start up discussions over your...

forums.escapistmagazine.com

You should read those before posting.
"Please do not carry grievances between threads. Keep focused on the topic at hand."

 

[Buyetyen]

You're one of those "letter of the law but not the spirit" types, eh?

 

[Iron]

You're one of those "letter of the law but not the spirit" types, eh?

I hate it when people take my posts out of the context of their discussion to try to ram me with it. It happened to be in this forum before, and it irritates me.

 

[Buyetyen]

I hate it when people take my posts out of the context of their discussion to try to ram me with it. It happened to be in this forum before, and it irritates me.

People unironically using alt-right troll tactics (e.g. "orange man bad") pisses me off way more. Now, do you actually want to defend your assertion that Trump can be reasoned with?

 

[Iron]

People unironically using alt-right troll tactics (e.g. "orange man bad") pisses me off way more. Now, do you actually want to defend your assertion that Trump can be reasoned with?

Defend? I gave an example when he changed his mind after the talk he had with winnie the pooh two years ago. How can I even try to defend it? The person I responded to with a joke from earlier gave a good description of Trump and I wouldn't want to waste my time trying to disprove it. Why would I waste my time trying to die on this hill? I gave an example, where he was reasoned with by a foreign head of state. What else do you need me to do? Agree with me or don't, idc. Like, what the hell? You're angry I'm humanizing him or something?
alt-right troll tactics are funny as shit, and I'll be honest chan culture is more pleasant than this cross-examination.

 

[tstorm823]

I'm saying he overtly supported a system that allowed blatant, formal racism, illiberalism and injustice to continue. This cannot be avoided when we want to assess what his commitment to injustice and liberty truly was. And my answer to that is "well short of his rhetoric".

But why do you say that he did that? What system was he supporting that allowed that to continue? He was patently and decidedly against segregation and Jim Crow. You're making it black and white, like one can only be good or bad in this regard. But it's not hard to imagine abolishing Jim Crow segregation a different way than the heavy handed Johnson method that has long lasting negative impacts to this day. When conservatives complain about big government Democratic policies leading to the destruction of black communities, it all goes directly at the feet of Lyndon Johnson, a man who thought federal force was the solution to every problem, from segregation to Vietnam.

Judging people by the vague direction of their argument is a stupid game. It's not always about moving in the right or wrong direction; sometimes people support or oppose the right things but in the wrong ways.

Just dropping this in since some white people still believe there never was a Southern Strategy:

Exclusive: Lee Atwater’s Infamous 1981 Interview on the Southern Strategy

The forty-two-minute recording, acquired by James Carter IV, confirms Atwater’s incendiary remarks and places them in context.

www.thenation.com

Lee Atwater was a teenager in a garage band during the so-called southern strategy, he was the Steve Bannon of his time when he gave that interview, and the thesis of his argument was that there was no racism left in politics by the 80s. If that's all you have, it's a pretty embarrassing argument that I've already torn to shreds a half-dozen times on this website.

 

[Buyetyen]

Defend? I gave an example when he changed his mind after the talk he had with winnie the pooh two years ago. How can I even try to defend it? The person I responded to with a joke from earlier gave a good description of Trump and I wouldn't want to waste my time trying to disprove it. Why would I waste my time trying to die on this hill? I gave an example, where he was reasoned with by a foreign head of state. What else do you need me to do? Agree with me or don't, idc. Like, what the hell? You're angry I'm humanizing him or something?
alt-right troll tactics are funny as shit, and I'll be honest chan culture is more pleasant than this cross-examination.

Again, jokes have punchlines. You had a setup with no punchline.

As to why you'd want to die on this hill, you're the one who brought it up. And I'm more annoyed with you because you're speaking from a position of privilege and don't realize it.

 

[Iron]

Again, jokes have punchlines. You had a setup with no punchline.

As to why you'd want to die on this hill, you're the one who brought it up. And I'm more annoyed with you because you're speaking from a position of privilege and don't realize it.

There is no privilege here, it's an anonymous internet forum.

 

[Buyetyen]

There is no privilege here, it's an anonymous internet forum.

That's either a lie or you didn't understand the statement. For now I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. When I say you speak from a position of privilege, I do not get the impression from you that you are one of the people who has had to really suffer under the Trump regime. If that's the case, count yourself lucky and learn that not all of us have it so good.

 

[Iron]

That's either a lie or you didn't understand the statement. For now I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. When I say you speak from a position of privilege, I do not get the impression from you that you are one of the people who has had to really suffer under the Trump regime. If that's the case, count yourself lucky and learn that not all of us have it so good.

I'm not American. Being born an American is the luckiest thing in the world to millions of people. Americans have it very good, especially compared to the billions of people living worse off around the world.
You suffered under Trump? What did he do to you?

 

[Buyetyen]

You suffered under Trump? What did he do to you?

Me personally? Well, his economic policies actually reduced my take-home pay necessitating working longer hours in inhospitable conditions. His loosening of police oversight has made my encounters with the cops even more stressful and terrifying. I'm constantly in a state of anxiety that I'm going to lose my healthcare coverage if his cronies succeed in axing the ACA. Which, by the way, has had a knock-on effect for my mental health causing me to have regular panic attacks, sleepless nights and digestion problems. Thanks to his bungling of the coronavirus, I'm still out of work. The stimulus check was a pittance that covered my bills a couple months before it ran out. There are jackbooted thugs in my city right now arresting protestors without cause or charges so I risk that if I try to protest or attend any rallies. And that's me getting off comparatively easy.

And that's not even getting into all the other people he's fucked over. 170k+ dead form the pandemic, the economy cratering, the lack of oversight on the stimulus bill meaning that the lion's share was pocketed by the 1%, the evictions, the families separated at the border and tortured for the crime of legally seeking refugee status, the fucking up legal immigration, the tax scam that only further exacerbated our income inequality, the fact that he's actively destroying the USPS, politicized the justice department, all his cabinet appointment are corrupt AF, he's withheld federal aid from states that didn't go to him in the 2016 election and has explicitly said it's because he wants them to only say nice things about him, allowed the Saudi royal family to torture a journalist to death in the midst of an explicit assault on the free press...

So yeah. America is not a paradise. We're a failed state.