Demonization of Moviebob and other Escapist Staff

[Elvis Starburst]

Jesus christ, looking at this, I ask myself... "Where did all of this hate suddenly come from?" It feels like within the past year or two the entire gaming culture has just exploded into something absolutely mindblowingly stupid. Where did all of this go wrong? Where did it come from? When is it gonna end, if at all? Damn... I wish things weren't going the way they are. Makes me feel bad calling myself a "Gamer" and be lumped in with the mess. Maybe we need a sub-term... "Early Gamer" or "Before shit went bad Gamer."

Anyways, mini rant aside... I think what they're doing is fine. They're just reacting to a crazy medium gone rogue in ways they feel they need to. I remember a time when gamers didn't have to deal with this crap. I can imagine these people like Moviebob and our own savior Jim Sterling are rather sick of it, as are the rest of the community. We just want things to be peaceful again. Can't we be peaceful again, guys? GAMERS? Remember what that meant? PLAYING GAMES?! >3>

(Yes, I'm upset about it)

Edit: I'm in no way saying we can't have these sorts of discussions, or having things like more female protagonists and less sexism and such along those lines. What I want to end is this childish behavior that seems to have been adopted rather suddenly on all of these topics, and how they're handled. A freakin SJW list saying that Jim Sterling is ruining gaming? Are you serious? The person who made that clearly never watched a single thing he made.

I wish things were back in simpler times when these sorts of discussions might have been had less, more quietly, or just be handled in a more mature manner. We can still have them, yes, but... Gaming culture these days is nothing short of shameful, and I dread the thought of it going on for much longer

 

[Fiz_The_Toaster]

Spoiler

In any event, this whole thing has just shown just immature the "gaming community" still is, and will probably be for a while. Kinda sad really.

Huh? the actions of a few hundred idiots speak for a "gaming community"? That's pretty damn insulting to hear.

Given how much of the vocal minority just over shadowed everyone else and drove out two people from the industry, and made one critic leave her house because of death threats, I would say it's pretty accurate.

I find all of that insulting when those people condone it.

Is all of the community like that? No, but at a casual glance from someone outside of our little bubble that is pretty damning.

The Gaming Community IS outraged by those death threats, hell I got 3 quotes in less then an hour.

I don't see how you being quoted three times in less than an hour has anything to do with it, but okay.

And I've seen people do some pretty impressive mental gymnastics about how Anita did that herself to get attention, or whatever. Zoe as well, if memory serves. So you'll have to excuse me if I don't take that seriously. You may be outraged, and you should be, but I don't see the community as a whole doing it. See the problem?

Granted, there are gonna be some people in every community being a bunch of assholes, but if the community as a whole doesn't exclude and make it clear that they're not welcome then it really doesn't change anything.

Start a poll, ask people "Do you condone threats of violent on female developers"
I bet outside of a few idiots everyone will say they don't.

Letting them know they're not welcome won't do much either, they're clearly insane.

But here's the issue, a lot of people in that debate are making different points, some of them are stupid, some of them are sexist, and some are actually kindof good points. Demonizing them and linking them to criminal idiots making death threats doesn't do a lot of good, it just makes people quite pissed and breaks down communication.

Hell the reason Moviebob is in the shit because (if memory serves) he called them sexist, which drew a lot of ire and did absolutely no good. Now sure, there are a shit ton of sexists in that group, but it's stupid to just come out and insult them, you have to attack the root of their sexist arguments, show them what they are through reasoning, and make them come to the conclusion themselves.

Which is quite hard to do over Twitter, believe it or not.

That's a bit of a tangent but I'll come back by saying this:
Yes there are some fucked up things in the gaming community, yes it's bad that more people are not verbally condemning the threats, but don't use it as a way to demonize a group of people since you'll just end up being hated by them (instead reason out why their actions are so evil in the first place).

This will be the last thing I will say on the matter because I don't have the time, nor the patience, to deal with this.

I never said I was demonizing anyone, or any group. The reason I put "gaming community" in quotes in the first place was because I was being flippant. The term "community" at that point meant nothing at this point in time seeing as that damn Zoe thread won't go away, and I can see several threads right now about this whole thing. There isn't a clear voice from anyone about this whole mess, and I find that ridiculous. If you think I'm doing that then you're reading far more into my comment than it really should be.

Let me make this perfectly clear. I'm on no one's side, and I'm not cheering for anyone. If anything, I find this whole debacle one massive joke.

And I really don't care what a bunch of strangers think of me and my opinions on this whole thing. If they don't like it then tough. If they're really that worked up over this and what some anonymous person on the internet has to say about it then I don't know anymore.

 

[Spambot 3000]

Frankly, MovieBobs continued employment even before this all happened mystified me. If they're not looking to replace him with someone who isn't utter garbage by now then they probably never will.

 

[Tanis]

I always thought gamers were more, shall we say, liberal?

But as this 'gamegate' thing explodes...
Well, I'm wondering of some Tea Party/Golden Dawn/etc, have just been some kind of sleeper cells just WAITING to explode onto the scene.

It's...very sad and pathetic.

 

[chiggerwood]

Wait, there's a movement to have MovieBob removed because of his beliefs? That's stupid, hell I just want him gone because I think he sucks.

 

[Spushkin]

As much as people "hate" MovieBob, I don't think he'll be going anywhere for as long as he's garnering a lot of views. There appears to be a silent majority of people who watch his stuff here and never even bothered to look him up on twitter (the mind boggles, I know) or get to know his opinions on things.

So you know, it's useless attacking him or defending him.

Everything is useless, really.

I'll just go lie down now and contemplate on that last sentence.

 

[Amaror]

I've always liked MovieBob and to be honest, I'm rather baffled by the outright hatred that he has been attracting simply because he's pointing out how silly this whole thing is. All these people have done is proven him, and so many others out there, right about how the gaming community is a terrible place for anyone who might have a different opinion than the people screaming the loudest.

Ah, so you consider this [https://twitter.com/the_moviebob/status/502692856738619392] and this [https://twitter.com/the_moviebob/status/502038039968112640] "simply pointing out how silly this whole thing is". But of course actually trying to find out why people are angry about a person would be much less fun, than just accusing people of being demons of hatred risen up from hell itself to torment poor innocent folk, wouldn't it.

 

[PBMcNair]

In response to this and the general gamergate situation on the forums the escapist's general manager gave an utterly sarcastic response saying how "noble" an accomplishment it is that their behavior has forced not only the escapist, but every single site under the Defy Media umbrella to revise their forum rules and guidelines

If "forcing" a bunch of websites to review guidelines results in nice, neutral, and actually researched articles like this: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/137293-Exclusive-Zoe-Quinn-Posts-Chat-Logs-Debunking-GamerGate-4Chan-and-Quinn-Respond

then then I fail to see how its a bad thing.

And could you explain exactly how the GM's response was sarcastic ? Seriously, my online sarcastometer has been useless since all this started.

 

[Archer666]

If anything, dude is being childish. He's going all in with the "Us vs Them" mentality, completely demonizing everyone that disagrees with him despite whatever good arguments they may have. He doesn't want to debate anything and ignores any evidence that counter his worldview. This doesn't sit well with people, understandably.

I disagree almost 100% with him on everything, but getting him fired because he's pigheaded and has differing opinions is a bit much for me. I enjoy his contrary opinion, however flawed I think his position may be.

 

[Rastrelly]

I was getting more and more annoyed by those "diversity" being plugged where it is needed and where it isn't just enough to stop caring on how much flack for picking this topic time after time again will get Sterling, Chipman or whoever else. Diversity itself is not panacea or requirement to make a good work of art.

 

[Pieturli]

I have been so determined not to give a shit about this. Boy am I going to regret this...


What is all of this about? I really, really don't understand. Could someone spoon feed me please?

 

[carnex]

Yeah, they do. And the actions of Varg Vikernes and the guys from the band Absurd tarred the black metal community. But you know what that community did? Evicted those guys and heavily distanced themselves from almost everything that they stood for. They made it damn clear that they don't speak for them. Punk Rock did it too, when they evicted the nazis that were beggining to enter that community. Why can't we do the same? Why can't we have a "Nazi Punks, Fuck Off", so to speak?

Well, you're right. Those damn... wait, who they are? Oh yes, they are anonymous using throwaway accounts and internet personalities. So, how exactly do you think people can throw them out other than saying that what they are doing is not right and that we do not support those actions? And people have already done that.

 

[Spambot 3000]

I have been so determined not to give a shit about this. Boy am I going to regret this...


What is all of this about? I really, really don't understand. Could someone spoon feed me please?

For the love of god do yourself a favour and just don't bother you have nothing to gain by learning about this whole shit-flinging competition just run away and never look back, trust me.

 

[dragonswarrior]

Except, your saying the side of the #burgersandfries IRC (A subset of 4chan no less, so even less people) are stupid.... except it seems that zoe may of been showing things out of context and making up some information. Except.... The #IRC spokesman showed professionalism and showed what the movement was really about, and actually showed that Zoe may of shown some chats out of context, or even worse, faked some.... so who is stupid now?

That is why we have neutrality. Neither side has a burden of proof. You don't want to be neutral here, you want to slander a side.

Bias can happen when you are right.... except you don't get to say you are right in this case, and bias can absolutely happen when you are wrong to. There is an actual discussion going on here, and your spreading what basically amounts to slanderous propaganda against a movement that is fighting for journalistic integrity.

I have to say, I am glad Greg Tito, who most likely sides with Zoe, wrote that article, and not you. Greg knows how to write a neutral article when there is no one 'right' side, you would just want to be like Polygon, Kotaku, and Rock/Paper/Shotgun.

Actually I wasn't referring to the harassment thing, which I think Tito did a fantastic job reporting.

I was talking about what sparked this whole fiasco, the ridiculousness over Quinn's ex and his rants and whatnot. The fact that people ever actually gave that the time of day when the facts were clearly against him, and it was no ones business anyway (and the facts were against him!) is ridiculous.

So I have trouble with the whole "We're just fighting for journalistic integrity!" shtick when this whole movement was started on lies and slander. Or is it libel? Print is libel so it's probably libel.

I mean really. If you truly believe in journalistic integrity, you'd either listen to the folks who are saying this movement is ridiculous, or (more likely) you never would have joined the movement to begin with.

 

[Starbird]

Except, your saying the side of the #burgersandfries IRC (A subset of 4chan no less, so even less people) are stupid.... except it seems that zoe may of been showing things out of context and making up some information. Except.... The #IRC spokesman showed professionalism and showed what the movement was really about, and actually showed that Zoe may of shown some chats out of context, or even worse, faked some.... so who is stupid now?

That is why we have neutrality. Neither side has a burden of proof. You don't want to be neutral here, you want to slander a side.

Bias can happen when you are right.... except you don't get to say you are right in this case, and bias can absolutely happen when you are wrong to. There is an actual discussion going on here, and your spreading what basically amounts to slanderous propaganda against a movement that is fighting for journalistic integrity.

I have to say, I am glad Greg Tito, who most likely sides with Zoe, wrote that article, and not you. Greg knows how to write a neutral article when there is no one 'right' side, you would just want to be like Polygon, Kotaku, and Rock/Paper/Shotgun.

Actually I wasn't referring to the harassment thing, which I think Tito did a fantastic job reporting.

I was talking about what sparked this whole fiasco, the ridiculousness over Quinn's ex and his rants and whatnot. The fact that people ever actually gave that the time of day when the facts were clearly against him, and it was no ones business anyway (and the facts were against him!) is ridiculous.

So I have trouble with the whole "We're just fighting for journalistic integrity!" shtick when this whole movement was started on lies and slander. Or is it libel? Print is libel so it's probably libel.

I mean really. If you truly believe in journalistic integrity, you'd either listen to the folks who are saying this movement is ridiculous, or (more likely) you never would have joined the movement to begin with.

This.

I can respect and enjoy a journalist's opinions without having to agree with them 100% of the time. I can also watch a documentary that I don't personally agree with or see someone post something stupid online without wanting to make death threats against them IRL, or attempt to drive them out of their job.

I think this whole event has really brought to like the deeply nasty undercurrent that is still present in online communities.

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

people need to manage their anger, grow up and have proportionate reactions to the things that irk them.

 

[seditary]

Well considering Bob's tirades on twitter forced The Escapist to temporarily remove their twitter feed from the front page and then institute new policies regarding what people posted to be able to appear in that feed I'd say there's plenty of space to have a conversation about conduct and consequences of it.

Of course everyone just turns that into shouting.