Deus Ex: Human Revolution's Social Boss Fights Swap Bullets for Words

[RadiusXd]

I got both Deus Ex games in a bundle, though I plan to go for the first one to get up to speed. It's just a little odd, really. The way you have to stand still and keep your crosshairs on the enemy at all times just to be able to hit him is counter intuitive when the enemy finds out where you are and starts firing on you. I end up dieing in 4 hits even on the easiest difficulty.

It's weird, but fascinating in a way. Like going back in time and trying to discover what really made the game click with everyone else.

how is the concept of taking time to aim counter intuitive?

i tried playing Deus Ex recently... it touts "choice" but in the end your character is a pussy and the game is horrible with direction.

give me a pistol?
Game: HA! it only kills people after 5 shots and its COMPLETELY inaccurate even if the game says you're a master at it!
Me: How about a rifle?
Game: Zooming in is completely ineffectual! Your crosshair may SAY you're aiming at the head, but you're actually aiming slightly below it and he's gonna run off and alert a dozen guys to EXACTLY the location you're at and kill you in 2 shots. Also, we're only gonna give you 5 shots that will land in fuck-all places and never give you more ammo for it.
Me: Okay... can i go melee?
Game: The moment you go within 2 miles of anyone, they can pinpoint exactly where you are and kill you in two shots... pussy.
Me: Fine! I'll just sneak around them!
Game: Didn't I just tell you you can be seen within a two mile radius? In the shadows? and while crouching? And this is just the first level that's supposed to get you used to things?
Me: Fuck you game.

Human Revolution can only be an improvement from there.

What game were you playing? The NPCs have terrible line of sight. Oh, and about weapon accuracy? You have to level you skills in order to be accurate. Yeah, it's an RPG not a full blooded shooter.

i upgraded my pistols skill all the way and it still wouldn't hit shit, and when it did enemies were completely ignoring the damage as though nothing happened.

i upraged my rifles to NEAR full and i couldn't hit someone right in front of me.

look, i KNOW i'm not bad at shooters, i can play unreal tournament online and win most deathmatches, but this game is just ridiculous. i played the tutorial and everything SEEMED all straightforward, but once i got into the game my weapons and skills were no more useful than bunny farts.

you know that you can upgrade the actual WEAPON right? as in, separately from the skills.
you literally find boxes that have specific one use effects on a weapon of your choice.
some like accuracy and recoil will stack.

I don't think that's what you meant when you said "i upraged my rifles to NEAR full" when you can't have on the first level. FYI master pistol with a fully upgraded handgun is 100% accuracy, thus removing ANY need for sniper rifles late game.
in addition, while it is viable going master for weapons is not that much more useful over advanced so i generally diversify, sink some points in computers. You will NOT have enough points to anywhere near max everything out by games end.

 

[DTWolfwood]

everyone has tiny heads on their shoulders! wtf!

o man the character models need work >.<

need to remember to preorder the damn game and save me a few dollars!

 

[Jumplion]

I got both Deus Ex games in a bundle, though I plan to go for the first one to get up to speed. It's just a little odd, really. The way you have to stand still and keep your crosshairs on the enemy at all times just to be able to hit him is counter intuitive when the enemy finds out where you are and starts firing on you. I end up dieing in 4 hits even on the easiest difficulty.

It's weird, but fascinating in a way. Like going back in time and trying to discover what really made the game click with everyone else.

how is the concept of taking time to aim counter intuitive?

Because when the enemy sees you, you generally have to run to avoid their fire or get hit unnecessarily to properly hit the person in front of you. I don't expect to be as accurate running as I am crouching and steadily aiming, but if I can't hit the person 3 feet away with a pistol while trying to avoid damage, then it's not exactly helping. A pistol ain't a sniper rifle, folks, just point and shoot.

 

[Mr.Squishy]

i tried playing Deus Ex recently... it touts "choice" but in the end your character is a pussy and the game is horrible with direction.

give me a pistol?
Game: HA! it only kills people after 5 shots and its COMPLETELY inaccurate even if the game says you're a master at it!
Me: How about a rifle?
Game: Zooming in is completely ineffectual! Your crosshair may SAY you're aiming at the head, but you're actually aiming slightly below it and he's gonna run off and alert a dozen guys to EXACTLY the location you're at and kill you in 2 shots. Also, we're only gonna give you 5 shots that will land in fuck-all places and never give you more ammo for it.
Me: Okay... can i go melee?
Game: The moment you go within 2 miles of anyone, they can pinpoint exactly where you are and kill you in two shots... pussy.
Me: Fine! I'll just sneak around them!
Game: Didn't I just tell you you can be seen within a two mile radius? In the shadows? and while crouching? And this is just the first level that's supposed to get you used to things?
Me: Fuck you game.

Human Revolution can only be an improvement from there.

This right here is my experience with the game to a tee. I still struggle to see why it's regarded as such a classic.

 

[Kahunaburger]

i upgraded my pistols skill all the way and it still wouldn't hit shit, and when it did enemies were completely ignoring the damage as though nothing happened.

i upraged my rifles to NEAR full and i couldn't hit someone right in front of me.

look, i KNOW i'm not bad at shooters, i can play unreal tournament online and win most deathmatches, but this game is just ridiculous. i played the tutorial and everything SEEMED all straightforward, but once i got into the game my weapons and skills were no more useful than bunny farts.

The trick in Deus Ex is to never fight fair. If you go in guns blazing with anything short of a rocket launcher, it generally doesn't end well. Think of it as less of a shooter with stealth and RPG elements and more of a stealth/RPG game with shooter elements and you'll be fine.

It's looking better and better, the only problem I have so far is the cliched nature of the 'evil corporation that controls people with augmentation and drugs' plot. I mean, I get that it's playing off the cyberpunk works of Gibson like Neuromancer and such, but it's just such a basic, dumbed down notion of how augmentation would affect the future that it might be the game's biggest weak point (from what I've seen so far, but who knows, it could surprise me). What I really want to see is how augmentation would completely alter a society and the massive changes that would occur, including all the shifts in philosophy, the prejudice, government regulations, and exploitation of the technology that would occur. In short, I want a story about transhumanism changing the human condition, not the standard 'capitalists/businessmen R evil' nonsense. I'm hoping the final product will at least touch on those subjects.

Of course, since it's Deus Ex, they're probably going to have some international cabals trying to rule the world as well.

Spoiler

It's less "evil corporation that controls people with augmentation and drugs" and more "Illuminati pulling strings of corporations, governments, terrorist groups, and others behind the scenes." No doubt the Purity First people think that it's about evil corporations, but they aren't exactly reliable either.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Because when the enemy sees you, you generally have to run to avoid their fire or get hit unnecessarily to properly hit the person in front of you. I don't expect to be as accurate running as I am crouching and steadily aiming, but if I can't hit the person 3 feet away with a pistol while trying to avoid damage, then it's not exactly helping. A pistol ain't a sniper rifle, folks, just point and shoot.

Not in real life, no. It's actually a lot harder to hit anything with a pistol than people think. Plus, remember this is Deus Ex you're playing. If you're in a gunfight, something has probably gone horribly wrong.

This right here is my experience with the game to a tee. I still struggle to see why it's regarded as such a classic.

Because it's really good? A game not holding your hand =/= a bad game.

 

[Uber Evil]

It's looking better and better, the only problem I have so far is the cliched nature of the 'evil corporation that controls people with augmentation and drugs' plot. I mean, I get that it's playing off the cyberpunk works of Gibson like Neuromancer and such, but it's just such a basic, dumbed down notion of how augmentation would affect the future that it might be the game's biggest weak point (from what I've seen so far, but who knows, it could surprise me). What I really want to see is how augmentation would completely alter a society and the massive changes that would occur, including all the shifts in philosophy, the prejudice, government regulations, and exploitation of the technology that would occur. In short, I want a story about transhumanism changing the human condition, not the standard 'capitalists/businessmen R evil' nonsense. I'm hoping the final product will at least touch on those subjects.

Of course, since it's Deus Ex, they're probably going to have some international cabals trying to rule the world as well.

From what I got out of the leak, it didn't really have any of that evil augmentation vibe going on. The conspiracy is more involving who the fuck attacked the augmentation company and

Spoiler

killed your girlfriend.

At least that is what I got from the amount of it I played.
EDIT: Ok, I got ninja'ed by someone who has played more than me.

 

[Jumplion]

Because when the enemy sees you, you generally have to run to avoid their fire or get hit unnecessarily to properly hit the person in front of you. I don't expect to be as accurate running as I am crouching and steadily aiming, but if I can't hit the person 3 feet away with a pistol while trying to avoid damage, then it's not exactly helping. A pistol ain't a sniper rifle, folks, just point and shoot.

Not in real life, no. It's actually a lot harder to hit anything with a pistol than people think. Plus, remember this is Deus Ex you're playing. If you're in a gunfight, something has probably gone horribly wrong.

Yes, because a game about super secret organizations vieing for world control and people developing enhanced bionic limbs that enhance strength, speed, and whatnot is totally grounded in reality ;P

Also, hasn't Deus Ex been whacked off to as an "open" game where you can choose how you want to play the game? If Deus Ex is about playing the way you want to, I don't see why I shouldn't be able to go in and quickly clean out the enemies with some simple pistol shots.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Because when the enemy sees you, you generally have to run to avoid their fire or get hit unnecessarily to properly hit the person in front of you. I don't expect to be as accurate running as I am crouching and steadily aiming, but if I can't hit the person 3 feet away with a pistol while trying to avoid damage, then it's not exactly helping. A pistol ain't a sniper rifle, folks, just point and shoot.

Not in real life, no. It's actually a lot harder to hit anything with a pistol than people think. Plus, remember this is Deus Ex you're playing. If you're in a gunfight, something has probably gone horribly wrong.

Yes, because a game about super secret organizations vieing for world control and people developing enhanced bionic limbs that enhance strength, speed, and whatnot is totally grounded in reality ;P

Also, hasn't Deus Ex been whacked off to as an "open" game where you can choose how you want to play the game? If Deus Ex is about playing the way you want to, I don't see why I shouldn't be able to go in and quickly clean out the enemies with some simple pistol shots.

You can. You just have to use the pistol correctly, and support it with the right augmentations.

Also, it's sort of an odd argument that "this game is unrealistic in area X, so it should be unrealistic in area Y as well."

 

[PBMcNair]

So... it is like Alpha Protocol mixed with Wet? That's cool, I guess. I liked both of those games. I hated the original Deus Ex, so anything will be an improvement.

Wait, how is it like Wet ? Wet was one of the most awful games I've ever played.

Weren't all the Wet boss battles done with cut-scenes? I think they were. I don't really remember.

I'm honestly not sure, I stoped playing it about 30 seconds after i realised i was armed with revolvers that seemed to be ejecting shell casings. I don't mind a little suspenstion of disbelief, but thats pushing it.

 

[Jumplion]

You can. You just have to use the pistol correctly, and support it with the right augmentations.

Also, it's sort of an odd argument that "this game is unrealistic in area X, so it should be unrealistic in area Y as well."

Not quite what I meant. It was like, you were saying how the pistol thing was more akin to real life, but when nearly everything is the result of fantasy and bending reality, why would that one aspect be realistic?

 

[Kahunaburger]

You can. You just have to use the pistol correctly, and support it with the right augmentations.

Also, it's sort of an odd argument that "this game is unrealistic in area X, so it should be unrealistic in area Y as well."

Not quite what I meant. It was like, you were saying how the pistol thing was more akin to real life, but when nearly everything is the result of fantasy and bending reality, why would that one aspect be realistic?

Because it clearly delineates a role for pistols - the portable stealth gun or last-ditch sidearm, depending on how you've modified it. And generally speaking, Deus Ex's fantastic elements have to do with conspiracy theories and cyberpunk, so there's no real reason for pistols to behave unusually.

 

[Jumplion]

You can. You just have to use the pistol correctly, and support it with the right augmentations.

Also, it's sort of an odd argument that "this game is unrealistic in area X, so it should be unrealistic in area Y as well."

Not quite what I meant. It was like, you were saying how the pistol thing was more akin to real life, but when nearly everything is the result of fantasy and bending reality, why would that one aspect be realistic?

Because it clearly delineates a role for pistols - the portable stealth gun or last-ditch sidearm, depending on how you've modified it. And generally speaking, Deus Ex's fantastic elements have to do with conspiracy theories and cyberpunk, so there's no real reason for pistols to behave unusually.

It's not about "behaving unusually", it wouldn't be that unusual for a pistol to just be able to aim properly when whipping it out. Maybe not taking the closed in aim system thing altogether, but at least make the time for it to be accurate much shorter. And you start out the game with nothing but a pistol, so if you want to take the more combat oriented approach you're screwed for the first few levels.

 

[Kahunaburger]

You can. You just have to use the pistol correctly, and support it with the right augmentations.

Also, it's sort of an odd argument that "this game is unrealistic in area X, so it should be unrealistic in area Y as well."

Not quite what I meant. It was like, you were saying how the pistol thing was more akin to real life, but when nearly everything is the result of fantasy and bending reality, why would that one aspect be realistic?

Because it clearly delineates a role for pistols - the portable stealth gun or last-ditch sidearm, depending on how you've modified it. And generally speaking, Deus Ex's fantastic elements have to do with conspiracy theories and cyberpunk, so there's no real reason for pistols to behave unusually.

It's not about "behaving unusually", it wouldn't be that unusual for a pistol to just be able to aim properly when whipping it out. Maybe not taking the closed in aim system thing altogether, but at least make the time for it to be accurate much shorter. And you start out the game with nothing but a pistol, so if you want to take the more combat oriented approach you're screwed for the first few levels.

You can aim correctly with the pistol, you just need to use it in the situations it's good in. Those situations generally don't entail run-and-gun, because you need to use it in close range (at least until you upgrade your pistol skill) and control spread. If you're going for that playstyle, you're probably better off with a shotgun or a heavy weapon. Or, oddly enough, the stealth pistol, which is probably the best pistol for run-and-gun.

 

[Jumplion]

You can aim correctly with the pistol, you just need to use it in the situations it's good in. Those situations generally don't entail run-and-gun, because you need to use it in close range (at least until you upgrade your pistol skill) and control spread. If you're going for that playstyle, you're probably better off with a shotgun or a heavy weapon. Or, oddly enough, the stealth pistol, which is probably the best pistol for run-and-gun.

Well, when you're trying to use it in the correct situation (lining up a headshot far away so they don't notice you or whatever) and then they do notice you, you're screwed as you don't have anything else to defend yourself with (at least in the first level, cannot seem to get the hang of it).

 

[Kahunaburger]

You can aim correctly with the pistol, you just need to use it in the situations it's good in. Those situations generally don't entail run-and-gun, because you need to use it in close range (at least until you upgrade your pistol skill) and control spread. If you're going for that playstyle, you're probably better off with a shotgun or a heavy weapon. Or, oddly enough, the stealth pistol, which is probably the best pistol for run-and-gun.

Well, when you're trying to use it in the correct situation (lining up a headshot far away so they don't notice you or whatever) and then they do notice you, you're screwed as you don't have anything else to defend yourself with (at least in the first level, cannot seem to get the hang of it).

You can start out with the GEP gun in the first level, which should more than tide you over until the shotgun. But really the trick in Deus Ex is to use every tool in your arsenal - "pure" playthroughs are a lot harder than playthroughs that sneak, shoot, hack, etc. as the situation demands.

 

[PBMcNair]

You can aim correctly with the pistol, you just need to use it in the situations it's good in. Those situations generally don't entail run-and-gun, because you need to use it in close range (at least until you upgrade your pistol skill) and control spread. If you're going for that playstyle, you're probably better off with a shotgun or a heavy weapon. Or, oddly enough, the stealth pistol, which is probably the best pistol for run-and-gun.

Well, when you're trying to use it in the correct situation (lining up a headshot far away so they don't notice you or whatever) and then they do notice you, you're screwed as you don't have anything else to defend yourself with (at least in the first level, cannot seem to get the hang of it).

The thing thats worked best for me in situations like that is to ignore what you'd do in other games, and stay still. Keep trying for the headshot. Unless there's more than one enemy, in which case i recommend retreating and ambushing them point-blank at a corner or a doorway.

 

[Jumplion]

You can aim correctly with the pistol, you just need to use it in the situations it's good in. Those situations generally don't entail run-and-gun, because you need to use it in close range (at least until you upgrade your pistol skill) and control spread. If you're going for that playstyle, you're probably better off with a shotgun or a heavy weapon. Or, oddly enough, the stealth pistol, which is probably the best pistol for run-and-gun.

Well, when you're trying to use it in the correct situation (lining up a headshot far away so they don't notice you or whatever) and then they do notice you, you're screwed as you don't have anything else to defend yourself with (at least in the first level, cannot seem to get the hang of it).

You can start out with the GEP gun in the first level, which should more than tide you over until the shotgun. But really the trick in Deus Ex is to use every tool in your arsenal - "pure" playthroughs are a lot harder than playthroughs that sneak, shoot, hack, etc. as the situation demands.

Huh, forgotten about that. But whatever, steering this sucker back on target, the new Deus Ex looks pretty nifty, don't you think?