Deus Ex Will Be a "Cyberpunk Movie"

[Callate]

Honestly, they may have the right idea. I'm sorry, but half the reason some of the video game movies that have failed have failed so hard is because some meddler, usually one attached to the purse strings, said, "Oh, a [so and so] movie has to have [x]." So a character who gets hand-waved in the game gets scripted in, despite the fact that he looks cute in sixteen-bit graphics but wildly implausible in even a stylized version of reality. Or an otherwise realistic narrative suddenly has to deal with the presence of a game-style power-up. Or a trope that's long since become a cliche in movies gets trotted out again because it was relatively fresh in its native medium.

Did the first-person segment make "Doom" worth watching? Did anyone enjoy the second "Mortal Kombat" movie because they crowbarred in "animalities" (a word which sounds ridiculous enough coming off the lips of the announcer in the game, never mind by professional actors?)

Deus Ex has something a lot of other movies based on games haven't been blessed with: a reasonably coherent plot, setting, characters and history, one that fuses with the real world without jarring obvious surgical scars. That, I hope they keep. I don't need to see my fan-favorite powers in use. I don't need to see the main character scarfing down granola bars while crouched behind a desk to keep his energy up. I don't demand to see every mission or even every significant character transition to the main screen; I'd rather that if the film's creators are competent, they get to display that competence without a huge number of onerous restrictions on where they take it. They chose to make a DX movie; presumably, because they had specific ideas about what they wanted to do with that license.

When all is said and done, it may still suck. But I'd rather it suck because the people who made it weren't as competent as their backers thought than because they were told to make a turkey fly by grafting on helicopter parts.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

That's exactly what every other major video game movie did and that's exactly why they all suck. They didn't stick to the source material. They all tried to make something original, ignoring what fans expect. Look at Resident Evil, Hitman and Max Payne for example. They are all just shitty movies with the name of the game slapped on them. And these guys want to do the same? We shouldn't be excited for this news at all, because it's exactly what's wrong with movies that are based on video games.

So no. Your aim shouldn't be to make a good cyberpunk movie. Your aim should be to make a good Deus Ex movie. Making a good cyberpunk movie doesn't mean it's a good Deus Ex movie. However, making a good Deus Ex movie by definition means that it's also a good cyberpunk movie.

So if I am to understand your feelings about how this movie was being made, would it be fair to say that....you didn't ask for this [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYA6Y67NXMc]?


OP:Lets hope it goes well and its as cool as the cinematic trailer for Human Revolution.

 

[maninahat]

Did everybody just blaze on past the point of the quotes?

The point they're making is that they don't want to be restricted into telling the game's plot in a movie form. They're approaching the film from a angle that allows them to make a plot that can fit within a film that takes elements from Dues Ex to construct a film that is essentially Deus Ex. Nowhere have they said that they are going to abandon the roots of the game; they're merely trying to make a film that cribs from Deus Ex without just filming the plot of the game and hoping for the best.

Thank you. Yes.

The way I see it, there are three ways to fuck up a game movie:
1. Just follow the plot of a game, ignoring the fact that most games have terrible, derivative plots.
2. Completely ignore the tone of the game, thus making a movie that betrays the game's atmosphere and unique style.
3. Employ cheapo directors, special effects, and choreography, resulting in a film that can't even come close to matching the ambition, action and visuals of the game.

Deus Ex:HR, at its heart, is a pure cyberpunk story with a somewhat silly plot about corporate/government conspiracy, some neat themes about transhumanism/ambition/hubris, a satire of US political debates (from gun control to health insurance), and some cool gizmos that look good in a fight. The way I see it is that the directors and writers want to avoid the silly conspiracy plot (see point 1.), whilst keeping to the general theme and tone intact (see 2.). Lets hope they don't fuck up the hardest part: 3.

 

[deathbydeath]

But they also acknowledged that the cyberpunk genre is a difficult beast in its own right, not only because of infamous failures like Johnny Mnemonic but also because of films like Blade Runner and The Matrix, which Derrickson described as "iconic and insurmountable" even though they aren't really cyberpunk films. They're looking at more "grounded" films like District 9, Looper and Inception as "molds" for Deus Ex, because of their more realistic approach to the genre.

I know I'm posting again, but I don't give a fuck.


You are doing it wrong. Christ, these guys couldn't have missed the point harder if they were aiming in the other goddamn direction. MAKE A DEUS EX FILM, NOT LOOPER, DISTRICT 9, OR INCEPTION!!!

Those fucktards should be sent back to a high school video production class.

At no point does he ever say he's going to just copy those movies. In fact, that's a pretty big conclusion to jump to based on what he said. When he says "mold," I'm pretty sure he just means "I really liked what those movies did. Maybe we can find a bit of inspiration in them."

He's already got a wonderful place to draw from. It's called Deus Ex

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

I am not hopeful, no I am not.

You know how I am seeing (predicting) this movie? Zero Dark Thirty (anti-terrorist shoot-em up) meets The Matrix (circular philosophical metaphysical debates).

 

[PrinceOfShapeir]

Did everybody just blaze on past the point of the quotes?

The point they're making is that they don't want to be restricted into telling the game's plot in a movie form. They're approaching the film from a angle that allows them to make a plot that can fit within a film that takes elements from Dues Ex to construct a film that is essentially Deus Ex. Nowhere have they said that they are going to abandon the roots of the game; they're merely trying to make a film that cribs from Deus Ex without just filming the plot of the game and hoping for the best.

Thank you. Yes.

The way I see it, there are three ways to fuck up a game movie:
1. Just follow the plot of a game, ignoring the fact that most games have terrible, derivative plots.
2. Completely ignore the tone of the game, thus making a movie that betrays the game's atmosphere and unique style.
3. Employ cheapo directors, special effects, and choreography, resulting in a film that can't even come close to matching the ambition, action and visuals of the game.

Deus Ex:HR, at its heart, is a pure cyberpunk story with a somewhat silly plot about corporate/government conspiracy, some neat themes about transhumanism/ambition/hubris, a satire of US political debates (from gun control to health insurance), and some cool gizmos that look good in a fight. The way I see it is that the directors and writers want to avoid the silly conspiracy plot (see point 1.), whilst keeping to the general theme and tone intact (see 2.). Lets hope they don't fuck up the hardest part: 3.

Cyberpunk and Conspiracy go together like peanut butter and chocolate. You can't have Deus Ex without conspiracies, the whole series is focused on massive, labyrinthine conspiracies, and that -can- make for an awesome movie, if they're willing to embrace that Deus Ex is not and should not be straight action, but more of a mystery with bits of action.

 

[1337mokro]

Then why are you calling it Deus Ex.

If you just wanted to make a cyberpunk movie inspired by Deus Ex, do that.

They don't just want to make a cyber punk movie. They are keenly aware of how easy it is to fuck up a video game to movie adaptation, so they're focusing on the things that make the game good, rather than making something that tries to resemble things from the game. As the game is very cyberpunk, that's the natural thing to think about.

Turning a Book into a movie makes sense, bringing a world that previously only existed in someone's imagination to life is something that takes skill and creativity. A videogame is already a visual medium. The world is already fleshed out in ways a movie can never even come close to.

Whilst both mediums are visual and have their own advantages, the sad fact is that a movies still trump games in terms of story telling, often with only a fraction of the resources, time and effort.

Videogames are often fairly empty and skimpy worlds, in which the illusion of realism or depth can easily broken by what some call the "ludo-narrative dissonance" but what I call the "player goofing around". Games are always being held back by technical limitations which limit how you can tell the story, and whilst we've come to accept that this is how it is with games, we're currently missing out on the stories they can't provide. In Deus Ex:HR, the riots are supposed to be a big plot point...but you don't even see the rioting because the engine can't hack it. Jensen is supposed to be shocked and moved by events in the story, but the limitations of the facial animations fail to bring across the subtle emotional cues. He can only flap his mouth, furrow his brow and gesticulate, whilst the voice actor has to pick up the slack.

What would seeing the riots add? Allot of angry people? Sure you can show more but it's kind of the Star Wars argument isn't it?

"In a movie we can show all of this that we couldn't before... and maybe have deeper storytelling!"

Well they did that once, where events were only talked about and never actually shown. Then Lucas made three movies about a single line of dialogue. "Vader was seduced by the dark side of the force" worst trio of mistakes ever made wasn't it?

Sure you can hold up films as having an edge, but why would you do that rather than make a game using that story? Why not press your own medium rather than abandon it for another because it's easier. Finances? Games sell at 5 times the price of a movie for a reason.

You can drum up technical limitations as an excuse for why films might be better, but a good dev team will work around that (leaving aside that his face is basically 90% polymer and Teflon). Again why push the eject button rather than attempting to push the medium?

It's just smacks of an inferiority complex here.

 

[maninahat]

snip

snip

Cyberpunk and Conspiracy go together like peanut butter and chocolate. You can't have Deus Ex without conspiracies, the whole series is focused on massive, labyrinthine conspiracies, and that -can- make for an awesome movie, if they're willing to embrace that Deus Ex is not and should not be straight action, but more of a mystery with bits of action.

Sure, a conspiracy is important for a good cyberpunk story, but some conspiracies are more palatable than others. The original Deus Ex had Area 51 and Chupakabras. It's toned down for DX:HR, but there is still the goofy Bob Page new world order business to tie the two games together. I think that the corporate warfare and frame ups are good enough for the two hours of focus a movie can provide.

 

[maninahat]

snip

What would seeing the riots add? Allot of angry people? Sure you can show more but it's kind of the Star Wars argument isn't it?

"In a movie we can show all of this that we couldn't before... and maybe have deeper storytelling!"[

Well they did that once, where events were only talked about and never actually shown. Then Lucas made three movies about a single line of dialogue. "Vader was seduced by the dark side of the force" worst trio of mistakes ever made wasn't it?

I think you misunderstand me. I'm not saying that a movie is better than a game because it can indulge in gratuitous visuals, or over-exploit what are supposed to be brief bits of character back story. Both movies and games can serve to tell a story, but sometimes, the ambition of a game's story outstrips what the game can actually show, whereas this is far less of a problem in a film. Whether it is subtle emotional expressions that quietly convey a character's inner turmoil [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppjyB2MpxBU], or a pitched battle between two armies, a film has far less trouble convincingly depicting either.

Limitations can produce much better story telling, especially if a game or movie resorts to a clever way of getting around a technical issue (for example, the music and shark vision for Jaws, or the blinding fog in Silent Hill), but when a game is over-ambitious [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mn6KmahkCA0] and bites off more than it can chew [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTg7sYFH3Hc&feature=player_detailpage#t=48s], it often completely fails to get the desired result.

Sure you can hold up films as having an edge, but why would you do that rather than make a game using that story? Why not press your own medium rather than abandon it for another because it's easier. Finances? Games sell at 5 times the price of a movie for a reason.

You can drum up technical limitations as an excuse for why films might be better, but a good dev team will work around that (leaving aside that his face is basically 90% polymer and Teflon). Again why push the eject button rather than attempting to push the medium?

No one said anything about abandoning game development so that we can make more movies. The two are hardly mutually exclusive to the point where society can only have one artistic medium.

 

[deathbydeath]

Cyberpunk and Conspiracy go together like peanut butter and chocolate. You can't have Deus Ex without conspiracies, the whole series is focused on massive, labyrinthine conspiracies, and that -can- make for an awesome movie, if they're willing to embrace that Deus Ex is not and should not be straight action, but more of a mystery with bits of action.

But the conspiracies just serve as motifs for the larger theme, which is the distribution of power and the role of government. Case in point:

Spoiler: Copypasted from Wikiquote

JC Denton: "Despite all I?ve read about the Triads, I wasn?t prepared to see them operating in the open, on the streets, and wearing uniforms. Doesn?t the Chinese government care?"
Isaac: "The Chinese leave Hong Kong alone. They barricade the roads to control trade to the mainland, but they know how business is done."
JC Denton: "I would think the secret smuggling operations of the Triads would disturb the Chinese government."
Isaac: "Maybe the Luminous Path, but China knows that the Red Arrow are business owners, entrepreneurs, community leaders, and that they protect the city from outside influences."
JC Denton: "You said 'outside influences.' What does China fear?"
Isaac: "China is the last sovereign country in the world. Authoritarian but willing - unlike U.N.-governed countries - to give its people the freedom to do what they want.
JC Denton: "As long as they don?t break the law."
Isaac: "Listen to me. This is real freedom, freedom to own property, make a profit, make your life. The West, so afraid of strong government, now has no government. Only financial power."
JC Denton: "Our governments have limited power by design."
Isaac: "Rhetoric--and you believe it! Don?t you know where those slogans come from?"
JC Denton: "I give up."
Isaac: "Well-paid researchers - how do you say it? - 'think tanks,' funded by big businesses. What is that? A 'think tank'?"
JC Denton: "Hardly as sinister as a dictator, like China?s Premier."
Isaac: "It?s privately-funded propaganda. The Trilateral Commission in the United States for instance."
JC Denton: "The separation of powers acknowledges the petty ambitions of individuals; that?s its strength."
Isaac: "A system organized around the weakest qualities of individuals will produce these same qualities in its leaders."
JC Denton: "Perhaps certain qualities are an inseparable part of human nature.
Isaac: "The mark of the educated man is the suppression of these qualities in favor of better ones. The same is true of civilization."

Forgetting these themes would inherently keep the film from being a "Deus Ex" film, which is why Human Revolution was such a letdown in the themes and story department. Cyberpunk Dystopia and conspiracies were just there in order to take advantage of the game being set in the present-ish day.

 

[deathbydeath]

Yes... they'll probably do that. But, in regards to making it as a film, they may try and look at other films for some ideas. That's how something called "the creative process" works.

If they were drawing from cinematography, I'd be perfectly fine, as the films they mentioned are all good, but if they are even slightly competent, they should not have to draw themes and motifs from other films to make a something based on a game with literally too many themes and motifs to fit into your average film.

 

[1337mokro]

snip

What would seeing the riots add? Allot of angry people? Sure you can show more but it's kind of the Star Wars argument isn't it?

"In a movie we can show all of this that we couldn't before... and maybe have deeper storytelling!"[

Well they did that once, where events were only talked about and never actually shown. Then Lucas made three movies about a single line of dialogue. "Vader was seduced by the dark side of the force" worst trio of mistakes ever made wasn't it?

I think you misunderstand me. I'm not saying that a movie is better than a game because it can indulge in gratuitous visuals, or over-exploit what are supposed to be brief bits of character back story. Both movies and games can serve to tell a story, but sometimes, the ambition of a game's story outstrips what the game can actually show, whereas this is far less of a problem in a film. Whether it is subtle emotional expressions that quietly convey a character's inner turmoil [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppjyB2MpxBU], or a pitched battle between two armies, a film has far less trouble convincingly depicting either.

Limitations can produce much better story telling, especially if a game or movie resorts to a clever way of getting around a technical issue (for example, the music and shark vision for Jaws, or the blinding fog in Silent Hill), but when a game is over-ambitious [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mn6KmahkCA0] and bites off more than it can chew [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTg7sYFH3Hc&feature=player_detailpage#t=48s], it often completely fails to get the desired result.

Sure you can hold up films as having an edge, but why would you do that rather than make a game using that story? Why not press your own medium rather than abandon it for another because it's easier. Finances? Games sell at 5 times the price of a movie for a reason.

You can drum up technical limitations as an excuse for why films might be better, but a good dev team will work around that (leaving aside that his face is basically 90% polymer and Teflon). Again why push the eject button rather than attempting to push the medium?

No one said anything about abandoning game development so that we can make more movies. The two are hardly mutually exclusive to the point where society can only have one artistic medium.

Well I guess I did misunderstand you. Though I still think that the way the article was talking about the movie was like it was just a cyber punk movie with the name Deus Ex on it. Kinda like Syndicate was just a generic dystopian shooter that got Syndicate slapped on it (and THANKFULLY bombed horribly).

Of course we can have both movies and videogames side by side skipping through the daisies and kicking books in the stomach and laughing and pointing at them, but that was not my point.

A bad movie or a good movie can influence a game or shift focus from the games. For example Alone in the Dark, an old franchise that eventually got it's own movie and then followed it up with what basically amounts to a movie tie in. The two mediums can exist simultaneously but they will always influence each other.

For a more subtle similarity take a look at the PoP movie and the PoP: Forgotten Sands. Seems weird that the protagonists looks so much alike doesn't it? Now this doesn't have to result in bad influences, but the risks are always there.

Especially when this movie apparently has nothing to do with the games initially.

 

[deathbydeath]

Now, I don't mean to insult Deus Ex. I love Deus Ex. But I'm pretty sure that a talented team can fit all the themes of Deus Ex into a film. It's not an impenetrenable bubble that can't be touched.

Also, do you have any idea how many filmmakers draw from past works? It is in no way a sign of incompetence to say: "we were heavily influenced by X's works. You see, we love his films and [insert title here] was basically the main inspiration." I think you're thinking that I'm saying it's okay to outright copy. Well, I'm not. "draw from" is not the same as "steal from."

Which Deus Ex are you talking about, out of curiosity?

I am well aware about drawing from past works and that it can lead to good things, but they are just plain missing what made Deus Ex good in a narrative sense.

 

[deathbydeath]

I was referring to Deus Ex as a series and the general themes/narrative devices/motifs/etc. that are in all three games.

And again, the conclusion you're jumping to is unfounded. Nowhere in the man's statement does it say: "we are most definitely doing X." At this point, it's all just planning and theories. Additionally, don't you remember that the only reason he was looking at films like Looper, District 9, or Inception is because of their grounded approach to sci-fi? Isn't that exactly what Deus Ex has?

In Deus Ex, you create a god. Please evaluate your realism parameters.

Also, what mainly bugs me is the title: "Deus Ex will be a 'Cyberpunk Movie'". Deus Ex isn't about cyberpunk, it's about the nature of power and government (At least DX1 is, IW is about power and people and HR has no damn clue what it's about). The fact that the head honchos haven't grasped that has dashed my hopes. If you don't know what something is about when you are planning the project, what in the 7-9 hells makes you think you'll know what it's about at the end?