Developers Say Memory Is Faster on PS4 Than Xbox One

[Strazdas]

"30FPS in 1920×1080 on PS4, but it?ll run at ?20-something? FPS in 1600×900 on Xbox One" is a much bigger difference that I thought it'd be. I wonder why they brought the resolution down though. What if they were both the same resolution?

Maybe Xbone refused to run properly at 1080p? or the framerate was so unstable they couldnt properly test it? Yeah the resolution change here makes a huge difference and most people will miss that.

That's probably something they would mention. This is a lower resolution that the XBO is having trouble running at even the same frame rate that the ps4 is running the higher one at. This makes me suspect the nature/reliability of the test (and I'm firmly in the ps4 came on power disparity).

True enough they should have mentioned that, but this is kind of "secret leaked" stuff, so it could be they were covering thier ass/unable to acess the machine to extent to test them on equal footing/ect. i mean sure develoeprs probably already got the machines to develop for, but just how much are they regulared is a question to be asked. for all we know they could ahve reported the problem of Xbox for MS and thus woudl be a dead giveaway who did it.

Regarding the topic, the thing is that cloud computing isn't anything special. It's non-local machines (aka servers stored somewhere else) that are doing the computing for you. Microsoft isn't the only company that has that. Anyone with a server and an internet connection can have that. That doesn't make the XBO more powerful, it just means that machines can process things on always online games to augment the amount of processing being contributed towards the gaming. Which is funny, because servers are already doing that for any online console gaming. To say that other machines doing the processing instead will somehow make the XBO more powerful is a laugh. Like saying a lazy man works like five men when you hire five more men to do the work for him.

Erm, no, not exactly. Cloud computing is kinda special, since it does not even require servers to exist. Basically in the cloud you have 100 (example number) xboxes conencted together sharing resources. so for example whne you are at work Xbox owner A uses your xbox power to help calcualtion, and when you are home you get to use Xbox owner A pwoer if hes not using it. and that would be shared between many xboxes. usually it needs a serer to find other xboxes, but you can program it to "find on his own" by tryin possible ranges and then asking xboxes found for a list. this is how P2P download work on prnciple, and it can survive without a master server (tracker) due to sharing of IP lists.
Thing is, no company has ever done a proper cloud yet. at least noone has announced that, who knows maybe we got some uy in his basement that made it. (the guy in this case being some military system that created cloud for local usage of military operations). What is quite popular now is cluster servers, basically if you take a bunch of computers, put them next to eachother and ad make them work together. but thats just a server anyway.
Clodu storage however exist, and it basically stores in all places where file is available and then use the least loaded server to send you the data, so it sort of uses cloud principle of load sharing. but cloud computing and cloud storage is a long road of difference.
That being said, i do not believe microsoft will even attempt to do a real cloud and are only throwing buzzwords. morel ikely they do server computing where they try to offload some of computation to the server (hence their 300 million investment into servers), and likely fail due to horrific americans internet connection.

If the cloud computing is being implemented in single player games, welcome to the world of obligatory always online single player games that finally introduce shitty lag to the story-lines of what would otherwise be immersive titles. Because God only knows that all the main storylines of Bioshock, The last of us, super mario brothers, Fable, or any other popular series needs is the introduction of lag because even the most powerful server in the world can't do shit about an internet connection that has trouble processing and implementing all those bits of data instantly.

very much true, and this is why cloud computing can only work when we all have fiber optics. So go bug your ISP to get you one.

P.S. the sarcasm in that post was quite obvious, not sure why people took it literary. then again, you never know some people would post something like that and be Sirius..../

 

[lacktheknack]

inb4 hydrofire?

inb4 hydrofire.

Anyways: Heh. I wonder if they're going to have a manufacturing rearrangement done quietly, or if they'll just take their lumps (if they can find a non-lumpy part of their body at this point).

I really do love how the PS4 has a 50% FPS advantage in this situation... on a higher resolution.

 

[pandorum]

The joke's on all of you because even though the XBONE's power will actually be quadrupled by the use of the cloud

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/124325-Microsoft-Claims-Cloud-Will-Quadruple-Power-of-Xbox-One

M$ is already well aware that being more powerful is not in and of itself an advantage:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/127561-Microsoft-Disputes-PS4-Power-Advantage

Albert Penello, Microsoft's director of product planning, himself has said

the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe.

So there you have it! Even with the quadrupling power of the cloud, "the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe." Do with that information what you will.

Wow fanboy alert... you do know there is no real proof that the cloud will help as it is based on connection! and why argue with what the developers say when they are the ones who make the dam games.

.... Please tell me you realize he's being sarcastic and are replying with similar irony.

I need to right my sarcasm better.... I just wanted a homage to the nonsense that was the last fanboy war between xbox and ps3.

 

[neppakyo]

So, can we all agree that "the clooooud!" will make no difference in processing power? As its been stated before it depends on your connection, even the fastest non fiber optic connection can't do anything but basic stuff(maybe it will in a decade or so). Mainly the cloud will be used for storage. Also, latency plays a huge role as well. You could have a 60mbps connection, but lousy latency (ie, average of 200ms+ ping).

And with the PS4 basically a PC now, it will be immensely easier to program for than the older Playstations. You'll notice a difference between the two graphically with PS4 exclusives as the devs are not limited to the weaker xbone platform. Hell, even cross platform games will probably run smoother on the PS4, unless some devs are incompetent programmers.

And yes, developers would know a bit more than us forum trolls, as all we can do in conjecture and moan.

 

[SeventhSigil]

The joke's on all of you because even though the XBONE's power will actually be quadrupled by the use of the cloud

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/124325-Microsoft-Claims-Cloud-Will-Quadruple-Power-of-Xbox-One

M$ is already well aware that being more powerful is not in and of itself an advantage:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/127561-Microsoft-Disputes-PS4-Power-Advantage

Albert Penello, Microsoft's director of product planning, himself has said

the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe.

So there you have it! Even with the quadrupling power of the cloud, "the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe." Do with that information what you will.

Wow fanboy alert... you do know there is no real proof that the cloud will help as it is based on connection! and why argue with what the developers say when they are the ones who make the dam games.

.... Please tell me you realize he's being sarcastic and are replying with similar irony.

I need to right my sarcasm better.... I just wanted a homage to the nonsense that was the last fanboy war between xbox and ps3.

Speaking as someone who was poking around the official Xbox forums during the week after E3, you both needed to use the word Future waaaaaay more. >> First letter capitalization is key!

EDIT: Anyway, my bad, but without tone of voice, there really wasn't that much in the message to suggest anything but an earnest reply. xD

 

[Ensayia]

If they cared about speed, they'd put an SSD and larger quantity of RAM in the console first.

RAM speed doesn't help much when you are bottlenecked by disk I/O from swapping and such.

Given the current failure rates of even the best SSDs right now, this is not a good plan for a system that is meant to last several consecutive years without failure. Price would also be an issue, and the unit would have to be user replaceable in the event of failure. SSD failure often happens quickly with no warning whatsoever where traditional disk media combined with SMART gives you plenty of advance notice.

 

[Something Amyss]

GDDR5 is faster than DDR3?

I, for one, refuse to believe this.

So, MS just basically went "nuh uh" and make excuses.

Sounds about right for them as of late.

To truly sound like recent Microsoft, they would have to re-hire Orth to tell people that if they want speed, they should buy the PS4. I mean, I don't think Larry Hryb is capable of bringing those A-game epic fail moments.

inb4 "fanboys killed the Xbone and it's revolutionary way of digital distribution and sharing games and blah blah blah"

that is logical. After all, removing the daily check-in slowed things down by at least 40%.

They still need to sell the console. Putting an SSD would increase the price significantly. They'd have to get rid of the Kinect...

...Oh, you might be on to something here!

Slow down, son[footnote]possibly due to a lowering of your clock speed[/footnote]! Just think of all the things we'd lose without Kinect!

...When I can think of one, I'll totally bring it up!

Captcha: Last Straw. Well, not quite, but I give you effort for trying, captcha.

 

[Something Amyss]

Given the current failure rates of even the best SSDs right now, this is not a good plan for a system that is meant to last several consecutive years without failure.

Especially if Microsoft insists on going the "you can't swap out your HDD" route they're on right now.

 

[Fiz_The_Toaster]

So, MS just basically went "nuh uh" and make excuses.

Sounds about right for them as of late.

To truly sound like recent Microsoft, they would have to re-hire Orth to tell people that if they want speed, they should buy the PS4. I mean, I don't think Larry Hryb is capable of bringing those A-game epic fail moments.

If memory serves Mr. Hryb had one about a week or so ago over twitter(?) when a fan asked him why a loyal fan should bother with the new Xbox and his response was pretty fail worthy.

Still, Microsoft can do all those things by themselves without really needing a major person involved here.

 

[Something Amyss]

If memory serves Mr. Hryb had one about a week or so ago over twitter(?) when a fan asked him why a loyal fan should bother with the new Xbox and his response was pretty fail worthy.

Still, Microsoft can do all those things by themselves without really needing a major person involved here.

It's quite possible. I don't follow social media that much. Especially for celebrities and corporations. I find this to be better for my sanity.

Hryb was also doing the "TEH FEWCHUR!" thing alongside some of the other luminaries of Microsoft, but it wouldn't seem right unless such stupid was coming from Orth.

A lot of these guys just seem to be toeing the corporate line, is what I'm getting at. Orth was like that one guy we all know who takes the joke a little too far so reliably you can count on crickets AND set your watch to them.

I mean, we can all say dumb things, especially if we're working for a corporation. This is one reason I like being self-employed. I'm not mandated to say anything stupid. My stupidity is organic!

And yeah, I get that Orth's bit started out as a joke, but he did what I like to call[footnote]I bet other people do, but I like to pretend this is something original because it makes me feel special[/footnote] doubling down on stupid.

 

[Fiz_The_Toaster]

If memory serves Mr. Hryb had one about a week or so ago over twitter(?) when a fan asked him why a loyal fan should bother with the new Xbox and his response was pretty fail worthy.

Still, Microsoft can do all those things by themselves without really needing a major person involved here.

It's quite possible. I don't follow social media that much. Especially for celebrities and corporations. I find this to be better for my sanity.

Hryb was also doing the "TEH FEWCHUR!" thing alongside some of the other luminaries of Microsoft, but it wouldn't seem right unless such stupid was coming from Orth.

A lot of these guys just seem to be toeing the corporate line, is what I'm getting at. Orth was like that one guy we all know who takes the joke a little too far so reliably you can count on crickets AND set your watch to them.

I mean, we can all say dumb things, especially if we're working for a corporation. This is one reason I like being self-employed. I'm not mandated to say anything stupid. My stupidity is organic!

And yeah, I get that Orth's bit started out as a joke, but he did what I like to call[footnote]I bet other people do, but I like to pretend this is something original because it makes me feel special[/footnote] doubling down on stupid.

I view Hryb nothing more than their cheerleader, and I tend to not take him seriously because of it. I mean, obviously he has to say the things he says because of who he works for, but even in front of criticism saying the same things over and over agin really aren't going to help.

I found Orth's comment to be one part dumb and one part ballsy, but hey, he found out what happens when you think your own jokes go too far and people aren't amused.

See, for myself I just stay quite because I don't play politics, nor am I asked to answer such things. The joys of blending into the background.

 

[MorphingDragon]

GDDR5 is faster than DDR3?

I, for one, refuse to believe this.

The correct answer it depends. DDR3 will be faster for general computation needs as that's what it's designed for after all. GDDR5 was tailored to the specific needs of a GPU (texture sampling/writing). There's actually a very high chance that a central game loop will have a pathological hotspot for GDDR5 somewhere inside it.

Statements like this are misleading. The developer should get a slap on the wrist.

 

[Something Amyss]

See, for myself I just stay quite because I don't play politics, nor am I asked to answer such things. The joys of blending into the background.

I lack the appropriate social filters to blend in to the background. On the other hand, the same lack of filters let me do work for people regardless of politics, so it's not an entirely bad thing. Except I run the risk of others not reciprocating, as I've found a lot of people seem to have issues working with On the other hand, I don't think I could do the cheerleader thing. I'm trying to find an agent for a novel I wrote, and I have trouble mustering up hype for that, so you can imagine how lame I'd be at hyping the XBone.

"Well...Uhhh...My mom thinks it's cool...."

On the other hand, I'm a nerd so nobody cares. In some elements, I guess I DO blend in. >.>

 

[Fiz_The_Toaster]

See, for myself I just stay quite because I don't play politics, nor am I asked to answer such things. The joys of blending into the background.

I lack the appropriate social filters to blend in to the background. On the other hand, the same lack of filters let me do work for people regardless of politics, so it's not an entirely bad thing. Except I run the risk of others not reciprocating, as I've found a lot of people seem to have issues working with On the other hand, I don't think I could do the cheerleader thing. I'm trying to find an agent for a novel I wrote, and I have trouble mustering up hype for that, so you can imagine how lame I'd be at hyping the XBone.

"Well...Uhhh...My mom thinks it's cool...."

On the other hand, I'm a nerd so nobody cares. In some elements, I guess I DO blend in. >.>

Well, so do I, but I think I've gained some secret stealthy powers or something, I dunno.

But perhaps a lack of social filters is the new Xbone's problem too. I mean, it's pretty bad when there are jokes for it already and the thing isn't out yet.

I think at this point any attempt to make the console seem appealing to more of the audience would be lame.[footnote]That's just my opinion anyways, for what it's worth. Of which I would imagine it's worth nothing. >.>[/footnote] :/

 

[Something Amyss]

Well, so do I, but I think I've gained some secret stealthy powers or something, I dunno.

To be fair, I don't register on people's minds most of the time. It's rather annoying. I got several people telling me I needed to walk more when I had a big hole in my foot.

Yay.

But perhaps a lack of social filters is the new Xbone's problem too. I mean, it's pretty bad when there are jokes for it already and the thing isn't out yet.

Doesn't hurt that they put zero thought into their branding.

I think at this point any attempt to make the console seem appealing to more of the audience would be lame.[footnote]That's just my opinion anyways, for what it's worth. Of which I would imagine it's worth nothing. >.>[/footnote] :/

Lame though it might be, i would still beat this passive-aggressive emo "we totally had an awesome system, we just failed to explain it so you fucking idiots could get it through your tiny pea brains" crap they've been pulling.

 

[The_Great_Galendo]

I'm going mostly off of memory here, but

3rd gen: NES less powerful than competitors, slaughtered competition.

I'm not sure what competition there was in the NES days, unless you mean the Atari. And I'm pretty certain that the Atari wasn't the more powerful of the two.

4th gen: SNES less powerful than Mega Drive, out-sold it. (just)

You mean the Genesis? I'm pretty certain the SNES was more powerful that it. Here's a link supporting my suspicions: http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~dherring/cgt141/project1/comparison.html. In pretty much everything except clock speed, the SNES had better or comparable specs.

5th gen: PS1 less powerful than N64, outsells it.

I think this had way more to do with CDs being a much, much better medium for games than cartridges than any relative power of the systems. Note that all of the current consoles use similar methods (there's no "quantum leap" like there was in the PS1 days).

6th gen: PS2 least powerful of the Big 3 (sorry Dreamcast), massacred competition.

Again, I suspect this had more to do with backwards-compatibility into an already massive library and market share, which neither the PS4 nor the XB1 will have.

7th gen: Wii almost last-gen quality graphics, outsells everyone.

But mostly thanks to their motion control gimmick. If the Kinect works out for Microsoft as well as the Wii-mote did for the Wii, then yes, the XB1 will have a huge advantage. Otherwise, not so much.

I guess what I'm saying is, except for cases in which one competitor does something significantly better than the others, the more powerful machine has actually held a pretty big advantage. Even the PS3 caught up eventually, once they realized that customers' pockets were not actually bottomless. If the PS4 is in fact significantly more powerful than the XB1, it does not bode well for Microsoft. (Then again, not much does, at this point.)

 

[Kross]

If they cared about speed, they'd put an SSD and larger quantity of RAM in the console first.

RAM speed doesn't help much when you are bottlenecked by disk I/O from swapping and such.

Given the current failure rates of even the best SSDs right now, this is not a good plan for a system that is meant to last several consecutive years without failure. Price would also be an issue, and the unit would have to be user replaceable in the event of failure. SSD failure often happens quickly with no warning whatsoever where traditional disk media combined with SMART gives you plenty of advance notice.

Current SSDs are both SMART capable [footnote]Though tend to not have the advance warning from picking up mechanical issues as you mentioned, and I can't find a recent discussion of this to see what's changed[/footnote], and tend to fail less then hard drives with multiple moving parts - consoles especially tend to have read heavy loads as you only install once/write out save games. You may be thinking of some combination of SSDs years ago when they were first releasing to consumers combined with various lower quality models [http://forum.crucial.com/t5/Solid-State-Drives-SSD/Crucial-V4-freezes/td-p/105744] littering the market (which are really easy to stumble into).

Over the last 2 years or so, almost all of the reliability/wear considerations have been addressed relative to traditional hard drives. Now more focus is on reducing price points (which would be the real concern for a console of course - though judging by the price premium consoles have loved to charge for replacement/external hard drives for years now...).

*One thing to keep in mind with online save game and license storage (which is already something they track with the 360, even if they don't leverage it as much as they plan to for next gen), that the console disk doesn't need to be recoverable in a failure scenario. You just RMA a new one and log in to your profile/re-install whatever you're playing. They aren't going to want to do more serious recovery then that on any disk. If you uploaded your music collection to your console, you'd be boned regardless unless you were willing to do recovery on your own.

 

[Kross]

Erm, no, not exactly. Cloud computing is kinda special, since it does not even require servers to exist. Basically in the cloud you have 100 (example number) xboxes conencted together sharing resources. so for example whne you are at work Xbox owner A uses your xbox power to help calcualtion, and when you are home you get to use Xbox owner A pwoer if hes not using it. and that would be shared between many xboxes. usually it needs a serer to find other xboxes, but you can program it to "find on his own" by tryin possible ranges and then asking xboxes found for a list. this is how P2P download work on prnciple, and it can survive without a master server (tracker) due to sharing of IP lists.

Cloud computing is virtual machines [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervisor].

Dynamically sharing computing problems with a client network is a form of Distributed Computing [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_distributed_computing_projects].

Cloud computing operates on a similar resource allocation principle as Airlines overbooking flights (maximum hardware utilization with an uneven demand). Using the theory that 100% of your RAM/CPU/disk IO capacity is rarely used by one operating system + processes. So you put another virtual machine on the same system that can use the idle resources.

Distributed computing solves large or ongoing problems, so it will always use 100% of whatever resources you allocate it, which is TERRIBLE in a "cloud" environment, as it means a single instance will choke out every other instance on the same machine for a particular resource (usually CPU in traditional distributed computing, more typically things like disk I/O from running a database in a VM)

From a user's perspective "cloud" anything is EXACTLY the same as any other sort of "online service". They are hosted services at a data center somewhere, that the administrators can spin up at greater speeds then having to hook up new hardware. There's no end user difference from something being in "the cloud" other then companies can offer online services for a cheaper outlay then they could previously.

 

[Micalas]

I don't understand how the company that made Windows can be so bad at hardware. It's baffling. You know how this stuff works, Microsoft! Christ...