Developing a pen&paper game. Need Help.

[alloneword]

Alright Escapists, here it is.

I'm currently developing a pen and paper RPG, and I'm currently stuck. As with most of these games, all of my characters have a set of attributes which increase and improve as the characters gain experience. These are called base attributes.

In addition to the base attributes, I also have a larger set of derived attributes. These are created using 2 base attributes and adding them together. For example Willpower + Charisma = Composure, and Strength + Toughness = Endurance. These are the attributes that will be actively used in the game for skill checks etc.

So, here I was happily creating derived attributes, when I ran into a problem. In interest of game balance, each base attribute is represented three times within the list of derived attributes, so eventually, when I got towards the end, I knew that I would end up with one or two derived attributes that I had no intention of creating.

Here is what I ended up with:
Strength + Charisma
and
Dexterity + Toughness

I have no idea what to call these 2 derived attributes, and (hopefully) this is where you come in. Any ideas would be very welcome.

EDIT
Here is the full list:
Magic + Intelligence = Spellcasting
Dexterity + Intelligence = Aptitude
Strength + Dexterity = Agility
Intelligence + Logic = Perception
Willpower + Charisma = Composure
Strength + Toughness = Endurance
Charisma + Logic = Influence
Magic + Willpower = Sustaining
Magic + Toughness = Resistance
Dexterity + Logic = Manipulation (of objects, not people)

 

[Berethond]

Strength + Charisma = Sexual Attractiveness
Dexterity + Toughness = Sexual Skill

Just throwing those out there.
A list of the ones you already have would be good, though.

EDIT: Dexterity + Toughness could be Flexibility.

 

[XzarTheMad]

STR + CHA = Swashbuckling. The ability to swashbuckle.

DEX + TUF = Martial. Basic hand-to-hand fisticuffs.

EDIT: If you don't like Swashbuckling (shame on you) I might suggest something akin to "influence". Regard charisma not only as how suave you are, but how much of a presence you have, the impact you can have on people merely by standing next to them. It could influence Turning if you have some sort of Cleric build (turn undead, obviously), it could work akin to Intimidation in D&D. I dunno. I still think Swashbuckling is the best.

 

[ConvincingJohn]

Dex+ Tough = Fitness

Str+ Cha= hmm...Presence? Intimidation? Meh. Perhaps Influence

 

[alloneword]

STR + CHA = Swashbuckling. The ability to swashbuckle.

Heh I love the idea, but it doesn't really fit with the rest of the list.

 

[alloneword]

EDIT: Dexterity + Toughness could be Flexibility.

Alright, if this were the case, what skills would Flexibility govern?

 

[Berethond]

EDIT: Dexterity + Toughness could be Flexibility.

Alright, if this were the case, what skills would Flexibility govern?

Crawl Through Tight Spaces?
Tumble? (I like this one.)
Breakdancing?
Dance fighting?
Capoeira?

 

[alloneword]

snip

Strength + Charisma = Heroism/Leadership? It allows you to inspire bonuses and increase the morale of anyone on your side, and can be used to debuff enemies I guess.

Dexterity + Toughness = Determination, I guess this could be used to give you a sort of "Second Chance" whenever your character is low on health, like gaining a few temporary bonuses to strength or health.

Hoped I helped.

My question on both of these is what skills would be governed by these attributes? I could see some of the more noble forms of coercion like Diplomacy or Motivate fitting under Heroism/Leadership for sure. But what about determination?

 

[alloneword]

Crawl Through Tight Spaces?

Okay, I can see this, although I would shorten the name of it

Tumble? (I like this one.)

I feel like this would be Agility

Breakdancing?

............................. perhaps I should have clarified that this was a fantasy setting

Dance fighting?

Probability Agility again

Capoeira?

Yep, likely agility.

I really like the idea of Flexibility as an attribute, I just don't really see the practical application of it.

 

[Naheal]

STR + CHA = Swashbuckling. The ability to swashbuckle.

That would be DEX + CHA

 

[Berethond]

snip

You could have people do periodic "Have You Pulled A Muscle" checks.

 

[PH3NOmenon]

I really like the idea of Flexibility as an attribute, I just don't really see the practical application of it.

Stuffing yourself into a box.

Wiggling free of bonds. (Ye olde "Escape Artist" skill in Shadowrun.)

Ability to participate in the "Hole in the Wall" gameshow.

Licking your own elbow.

Squeezing through a tight opening.

Pleasuring yourself.


Tons of things an attribute called "Flexibility" could govern.

 

[ultrachicken]

Charisma + Strength = Persuasion

Dexterity + Toughness = Martial Arts (?)

Does that help?

 

[alloneword]

EDIT: Had something here, rethinking it now.

 

[Axartes]

STR + CHA - To be honest, it seems like intimidation is a fair choice here. If you wanted to make it less "in your face" you could relabel as "presence" or some such. You know like how some people walk into a room and you instinctively know they're important/dangerous/combat ready.

DEX + TOU - This is more tricky. As many people have already suggested agility related things I guess I could say...some kind of muscle-memory related stat. Sort of like a reflex roll but instead of dodging the hazard altogether, it's more that the character can limit damage taken to the affected area but having had similar experiences in the past, or already having significantly scarred/calloused skin there, thus having a slight resistance? No idea for a name though...Battlescars? War wounds? I dunno!

 

[alloneword]

STR + CHA - To be honest, it seems like intimidation is a fair choice here. If you wanted to make it less "in your face" you could relabel as "presence" or some such. You know like how some people walk into a room and you instinctively know they're important/dangerous/combat ready.

The idea of presence is a good one, and seems to be the only thing that really fits with these two attributes. My only concern is that there won't be enough skills that use Presence. I can think of Intimidation............... Intimidation................. yeah. Thoughts?

DEX + TOU - This is more tricky. As many people have already suggested agility related things I guess I could say...some kind of muscle-memory related stat. Sort of like a reflex roll but instead of dodging the hazard altogether, it's more that the character can limit damage taken to the affected area but having had similar experiences in the past, or already having significantly scarred/calloused skin there, thus having a slight resistance? No idea for a name though...Battlescars? War wounds? I dunno!

I really like this idea! I had a luck system instituted that could very easily go along with this. One could easily see the Dodge skill fitting under this attribute, but I'm having a hard time seeing anything else there.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Actually, I have some experience in designing tabletop systems.
Maybe I can help out.

*reads through*
Yeah...a few people have already covered what I would suggest.
I'll elaborate a bit.

STR + CHA - To be honest, it seems like intimidation is a fair choice here. If you wanted to make it less "in your face" you could relabel as "presence" or some such. You know like how some people walk into a room and you instinctively know they're important/dangerous/combat ready.

DEX + TOU - This is more tricky. As many people have already suggested agility related things I guess I could say...some kind of muscle-memory related stat. Sort of like a reflex roll but instead of dodging the hazard altogether, it's more that the character can limit damage taken to the affected area but having had similar experiences in the past, or already having significantly scarred/calloused skin there, thus having a slight resistance? No idea for a name though...Battlescars? War wounds? I dunno!

I concur with Strength + Charisma.
Either "intimidation" or "Presence" (the kind of person everyone sees when they walk into the room. They hold your attention without saying a word. The Emperor's infamous dungeonkeeper may have lost his tongue for insubordination years ago, but truth is, he never needed it because he has presence.)

Dexterity + Toughness: Athletics/Fitness. (Characters who are fit carry themselves very well. They are less prone to injury, know how to roll with the hits, and are capable of performing strenuous or otherwise stressful physical activity for extended periods of time. Not to be confused with strength, which represents the magnitude or maximum force in which a character can act. A lightweight luchadore wrestler, for example, may have a high degree of fitness, but not hit as hard as the heavies. However he knows how to fall, and can hang in a fight without tire.)

If you have anything else you want a second opinion on. Don't hesitate to ask. I enjoy game design.

 

[alloneword]

Snip.

I see what you are saying.

What skills would you put under those groups?

 

[Plurralbles]

and you're not playing D&D or some variation... why? Spycraft not good enough for ya'?

or every single setting ever devised ever not good enough for you?

I feel that the large amount of stats are causing you problems because a lot of them are stepping on eachothers' feet.

Anyway, STR+CHA+DEX+Toughness= General Badassness.

To me.

 

[Axartes]

Dexterity + Toughness: Athletics/Fitness. (Characters who are fit carry themselves very well. They are less prone to injury, know how to roll with the hits, and are capable of performing strenuous or otherwise stressful physical activity for extended periods of time. Not to be confused with strength, which represents the magnitude or maximum force in which a character can act. A lightweight luchadore wrestler, for example, may have a high degree of fitness, but not hit as hard as the heavies. However he knows how to fall, and can hang in a fight without tire.)

Sounds good (and far more eloquent than my scrawling!)

As for your problem with not being certain if enough skills could be based off of the presence/intimidate stat - I think you'd need to be more explicit with the plan in general for us to have much in the way of suggestions. For example, if skills could be used both actively and passively, you could have it so that a character with sufficiently high PRES could cause enemies to occasionally fumble attacks, or weaker enemies totally give up hope and flee. Obviously this would be balance permitting and totally dependant on your ruleset.