Devil May Cry 4 "Pirated To Hell And Back" On PC

[HobbesMkii]

I think we seriously overrate piracy for PC software (games + apps). I like Brad Wardell's statements on pirates: If they're a problem ignore them. People who steal things aren't part of the potential consumer base. It's actually a good business model that extends to other businesses.

Look at the mother of all evil; Walmart. You've got to figure that things get stolen from Walmart all the time. I'm willing to bet at least 5%, if not closer to 15% of their merchandise just walks away. Walmart has two choices at this point: pay for better security and make cuts somewhere else (or raise prices) or just leave it. They opted for the latter (old people as greeters to guilt people into not shoplifting notwithstanding). And they turn profits up the wazoo. They treat their employees in a way that makes EA look like an all-expenses paid resort, but still, they do it accepting that a portion of their stuff is going at REALLY cut-throat rates.

It's almost foolish to bend over backwards to fight digital "theft" of a computer game. You've got to accept that someone who regularly downloads torrent games will almost never purchase it. After all, why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? Even if you could lock down your game so no one could pirate it, that wouldn't make a pirate buy it. They just wouldn't buy it. I mean, for me, as an honest buyer who doesn't pirate, that's what I do. Since I'm investing 100s of dollars in my entertainment, I've had to make decisions, decisions like "No... Assassin's Creed just isn't worth it." Someone who never spends money on a game isn't gonna suddenly go "Oh, well, I guess EA wins. I'll buy the game." They're gonna go "Screw EA."

There's some belief in the game publishing world that someday, somehow, a publisher will develop the ultimate in DRM, a CD-Key to rule them all. That's never going to happen. That's like someone saying they'll invent the lock for your front door that'll keep 100% of criminals from getting in. If you hear that, that person is lying to you. They'll probably be breaking in later.

 

[TOGSolid]

So, a game that requires constant twitch timing and combinations, doesn't sell well on something prone to LAG, and they decide it's pirates? When did the world get stupid?

You tell us, you're the one complaining about a single player game as if it was a multiplayer game. Have you ever even played DMC?


I really don't think it's totally fair to completely write off piracy. Iron Lore's Titan Quest was absolutely gutted by pirates who then complained about their cracked copies being buggy (before the game was even released on TQ's actual forums!) as if it was the game's fault and not the fact that it was a cracked copy.

You have to look at this on a case by case basis. DMC4's failing is its publishers own idiotic fault for thinking that a game that caters to the console players would do well on the PC.

 

[Asehujiko]

You'd think that Iron Lore figured out that making it look as if the game was extremely buggy before release was not the smartest thing to do either.

 

[Necromaniacal]

They were moronic to ever think it would have even similar sales to console versions, i bought it cause a)DMC is win b)cause i still had a 360 controller hanging about and c)cause DMC is win, but when push comes to shove, im a special case (no comments!!!), i sold my console to get a pc, and thus lost DMC4, but to say pirates is to be honest so laughable its silly, even if it is being pirated, the fact is the market isnt their for it, I love the game on PC, but only as much as i loved it on 360. my 2 cents

 

[ElArabDeMagnifico]

Action games like DMC don't exist on the PC

why would you release DMC on the PC in the first place? PC gamers don't play DMC, and I think the falling sales show that.

DMC isn't the first game to get heavily pirated.

Did those other games that have been pirated even more suffer such horrible losses due to the Piracy? Nope.

Stick to Consoles Capcom.

NOOO, PLEASE CAPCOM, I WILL SUPPORT YOU, DON'T GET OUT OF THE PC WATERS JUST YET, YOU HAVE HAD OTHER GOOD PC SALES!

OK Now you aren't reading far enough into this Altorin, people will play action games on a PC - last action game I know of that sold well was Assassin's Creed - now anyway, if people will buy racing games, then they'll get action games, but the problem is that the majority own more than one system, and those who DO have a "gamepad" probably have a 360 or a PS3 already, which had DMC4 on it for months before it came to PC, and the PC version isn't like say, Mass Effect, that one is significantly different from the 360 version, but DMC4 is pretty much the same game, and not worth buying it again at full price.

 

[HomeAliveIn45]

I'm pretty sure that this is a case of 2 much than 1. As a die-hard PC gamer, I can say there's one simple reason why I haven't bought DMC 4 yet: The box. All I need to do is look at that shit and I know I won't be buying it. Am I missing out on a great game? Maybe. But I'll never know, 'cause I ain't playing it.

I have several friends who need to read this. You've just made my life so much easier

 

[DeadlyYellow]

MEh, I'd rather just wait a few years and pick up a console copy in a bargain bin for $8. Console devs can't seem to grasp what it is that makes PC games great. Nor do you have to deal with tons of questionable security on consoles.

 

[Arbre]

I think we seriously overrate piracy for PC software (games + apps). I like Brad Wardell's statements on pirates: If they're a problem ignore them. People who steal things aren't part of the potential consumer base. It's actually a good business model that extends to other businesses.

He has points in how companies could exploit piracy, but let's be honest, the easier to steal stuff, the more people will steal it. It's still part of the problem.

If tomorrow, when I open the door, I find on the steps a fully functionnal illegal copy of a game I planned to acquire, do you think I'm going to go buy it afterwards?
Nope.
All "they" can do is try to find a way to turn me into a consumer through alternative means.

Now, I totally agree that using different strategies to focus on those who buy the games would probably be a good way to fight piracy by using the consumer against it.

A good example would be to look at sales figures with games sold at full price and then at Platinum prices.
God of War strikes me as a good case. I cannot even remember the game going full price. That said, Sony was already trying to promote the PS3 then, but would have GoW worked so well if it had been sold at a typical PS2 top price?

It's not just price, there are ways of fidelization to consider.

There's some belief in the game publishing world that someday, somehow, a publisher will develop the ultimate in DRM, a CD-Key to rule them all. That's never going to happen. That's like someone saying they'll invent the lock for your front door that'll keep 100% of criminals from getting in. If you hear that, that person is lying to you. They'll probably be breaking in later.

I agree, it only hurts the honest cowsumer in the end.
The single idea that DRM infringing on individual rights are allowed makes me mad.
Spending millions in DRMs instead of systems which make the consumer's life better smacks me of stupidity, and this from people coming out of those grey suit schools.
They have fucking no clue. They think vertically.

 

[Arbre]

OK Now you aren't reading far enough into this Altorin, people will play action games on a PC - last action game I know of that sold well was Assassin's Creed...

Devil May Cry 4... Assassin's Creed... Devil May Cry 4... Assassin's Creed...
Wait.

Apples...

Oranges...

 

[Virgil]

Look at the mother of all evil; Walmart. You've got to figure that things get stolen from Walmart all the time. I'm willing to bet at least 5%, if not closer to 15% of their merchandise just walks away. ...

Unfortunately, your example doesn't correspond well to this business. Digital products can be duplicated and distributed almost effortlessly. Wal-Mart isn't going to get a gallon of milk stolen, and then find that 10% of their milk-drinking customers across the world just got a copy of the gallon free from some guy over the internet. And it was delivered.

When it comes down to it, there are hundreds of thousands of pirate downloads for any major game. That's more downloads than game sales in many cases, and it's easy enough to check (like our banned friend up there did). It would be stupid for us to pretend that none of these would become sales of some sort if the game wasn't available for free. Even if we're only taking about 5%, that would be a huge change in numbers for most games.

It's just simple math - why be an honest person when you can download the game for free and spend the money on something else instead?

All we're going to see in the end is even more security wrapped around the games. Online activation, centralized account systems, check-in's, PunkBuster-style system checks. Or they just won't get released on PC at all. And PC gamers have nobody to thank for it other than themselves.

 

[Virgil]

Actually, I wanted to add in an absolutely brilliant commentary on the topic by Chris Remo [http://chrisremo.com/bloggin/2008/08/02/an-ill-advised-raving-rant-on-pc-piracy/]:

[This post is a slightly edited version of a comment I made on Shacknews regarding a Capcom exec's statement that Devil May Cry 4 on PC was heavily pirated - -but it could have been made in response to any developer speaking about any game being pirated, because those statements and the responses to them are always the same. This was my attempt to respond to as many of the common arguments as easily as came to mind just after midnight.]

No, not everyone who pirates a game would have bought it. But when you can go to any torrent site at any given moment and see thousands upon thousands upon thousands of people downloading a game, even weeks after it came out, how can any reasonable person not accept that there were lost sales?

Sure, we don't know what percentage of those pirated copies are lost sales, but just because we don't have that figure, does anyone truly believe that means the potential sales are negligible?

We know from firsthand statements that Ritual, just as one example, saw considerably more technical support requests from pirates than from legitimate customers on Sin Episodes. Does it matter if you thought that game wasn't good? No. Those pirates must have thought it was good enough to try to get it to work properly.

And that is clearly not an isolated example. Because every time anyone brings this up - be they a top-shelf developer, or a less prominent one - people think of a million reasons why that particular game or that particular developer just don't deserve the support of the discerning PC gamers. It happens every time, with the excuses tuned for each game. At that point, they stop being isolated examples, and they become part of a very clear trend.

Even developers who have done amazing things for the PC community have been ridiculed for daring to point out the obvious, that piracy is a problem on the platform. In their particular cases, often their games are pinned as being too old and tired, or not innovative enough, or too targeted and demanding. It isn't that such criticisms cannot be true - but non-innovative games sell well all the time in this industry, and if people do in fact want to play them, developers have a right to take issue with piracy.

Some arguments are more general - "Nobody wants to play this on PC" or "PC software is buggy and not worth the money" are common. If people genuinely didn't want to play it or already played it on consoles, they wouldn't need to pirate it. If they feel PC software is too buggy across the board, they shouldn't be playing PC games.

The really sad and frustrating part is, the only effect this has is that more and more developers and publishers are just going to stop bringing their games to the PC. Why even bother, if the system is already such a pain in the ass, and the community is full of so many stubborn idealogues?

I'm don't even accuse the apologists of being pirates, although doubtless some are. But many PC gamers do have an incredibly quick-tempered reaction as soon as piracy comes up, citing numberous potential factors, always the same ones: it's too buggy, the game sucks, it's not right for the PC platform, etc. It doesn't matter. At the end of the day, if lots of people are still pirating it, those arguments are basically meaningless, because they see something there worthwhile enough.

There is also the oft-made observation that PC piracy is just something of a culture - many people pirate dozens of games and don't even play them. I would argue that this is a fairly depressing culture if so, and that huge base of potential pirates, whether players or not, only makes it easier and more likely pirated games will be available and accessible for people who actually plan on pirating the game rather than buying it.

Sure, console piracy exists. But I would bet real actual dollars it's not remotely as much of a problem on home consoles as it is on PC. Look at the PSP - there's a system where piracy is known to be considerably more widespread, and unlike the home consoles it's pretty easy to see the effect, even as the hardware itself sells as well as it ever has. Maybe it's because it's harder on home consoles (I haven't tried on either, so I wouldn't know), or maybe it's just a psychological thing where people don't associate those systems with piracy.

When it comes down to it, regardless of those factors, if PC software is consistently pirated more than console software, and it obviously is, it's going to continue to be a disincentive for full-scale game developers to put their games on the system.

You can point to Blizzard and Valve all you want. Not every developer is, or can be, a Blizzard or a Valve. In the real world, that's just how it is. Other companies can't really afford to sit around and generate twelve years of goodwill while they hope that their games turn out to be some of the best-selling titles of all time.

Not all studios are necessarily capable of that, and they shouldn't have to be stacked up against two of the top few companies in the entire industry every time this topic comes up. It's completely unrealistic. If, every time I wrote some music, I was told, "Well, this sure sucks compared to Beethoven or The Who," I don't know if I'd find that very constructive.

PC gamers can be self-righteous and smug about PC games until the cows come home, but it's not going to be doing anything good for the platform long-term.

I love the smaller, more niche, lower-budget PC titles, the ones like Stardock's that are less affected by this type of thing. Those are great games, and it's proper that their developers be praised for them. But I ALSO like the bigger-budget ones that just by virtue of how the world works need to sell more to make it worthwhile to put them on PC.

I like being able to use my PC for a wide range of gaming. I like that companies are starting to take more chances on the PC again these days. I don't like that when they do, and they run into the sad reality of rampant piracy, they're met with nonstop snarkiness.

I'm not even going to get into arguing against people who defend the piracy itself (rather than just attacking the developers who cite piracy), because those arguments seem self-evident. I am sure I can trust my readers to fill in those blanks.

The PC is currently going through a great period of support, with a number of high-quality exclusives and multiplatform games coming to the system. But in many cases, those games are the result of companies seeing bigger market opportunities on the PC than they had previously thought. If those opportunities are nullified by unchecked piracy - with salt poured on the wound by the jeers of PC gamers - those companies will see little reason to stick around, and PC gamers (myself included) won't have much to feel superior about.

 

[the-kitchen-slayer]

On the topic of piracy, sometimes you have to pirate. How are you ever going to be able to find those old PC games (for example, fallout 2, hell, Drakkhen) without going on ebay, finding the right auction, and praying that the cd (or floppy) you get still works. Piracy for the games that are out now, i can understand being a problem. Piracy of music i also see is a problem (even though i'm guilty of it myself... hey, i buy the cd's of the artists i like, i'm just a wee bit behind on that right now... what, i'm poor).

However! Piracy can also (as has been posted above) assist a company's profits. For example, someone decides "what the hell, i'll torrent this today", and find they like it. that will put the company who made said game into their heads as "good people" or something like that. which, in the long run determined by how honest the person is, lead to either more pirating, or more profits as the person buys the games instead of downloading them.

either way, i'm ranting. DMC4 was a decent game, hate to hear it's not doing well on the pc market, but as a consol AND pc gamer, i'd go "yeah... i'll get it for my ps3. that's a game that just seems to go hand in hand with console"

Edit: and as i just read... guess most of us pc gamers aren't that honest. oh well, guess i'll start lookin at the indie games, those are free

 

[Arbre]

Talking about Stardock, I've been trying Sins of a Solar Empire. It's quite a good RTS game. You feel they didn't have the super duper budget at hand, but the game is quite nice. The timed demo pissed me off though, and made me wonder if that was done because there wasn't much more content in the whole game than what you got in the demo. But still, I clearly wanted to continue playing.

 

[HobbesMkii]

Look at the mother of all evil; Walmart. You've got to figure that things get stolen from Walmart all the time. I'm willing to bet at least 5%, if not closer to 15% of their merchandise just walks away. ...

Unfortunately, your example doesn't correspond well to this business. Digital products can be duplicated and distributed almost effortlessly. Wal-Mart isn't going to get a gallon of milk stolen, and then find that 10% of their milk-drinking customers across the world just got a copy of the gallon free from some guy over the internet. And it was delivered.

Okay, but there's another industry that corresponds to this. The Music industry. In fact, for comparison's sake, it's quite handy. You've got the big record labels (ie. Publishers) and then the artists themselves (ie. Developers, producers, concept artists, etc). The artists barely care about the sales, because that's not where they make their money. They make it off touring and writing songs (continuing our example, making games). A few years ago, when piracy was oh so new, the music industry was up in arms about pirates, pressing charges, tracking them down, filing lawsuits, etc. And then after that, they stopped, relatively cold. And music industry piracy continues. It's probably quite a bit larger than the piracy in the gaming industry, because, let's face it, if you sell 1 million copies of your album, you're indie. If you sell 1 million copies of your game, you've made it. Also, it's more mainstream than gaming so more people will pirate. Prosecuting offenders and protecting their product has cost the industry (perhaps suing the pirates' mommies and daddies = $0).

You never heard the music industry go "oi! album sales were so low because of piracy!" And because if they'd said something like that, it'd be BS. It was always a case of people making tons of money going "hey! I'm making a few less tons." It was a joke when the US Congress held the hearings because the only artists who showed up to express hardships resulting from piracy were the one-hit wonders. The only buzz I've ever heard around the industry and piracy these days are the success stories, the ones who's careers got a huge boost out of their songs getting downloaded for free. I never understood why people didn't take the music industry's BS, but we gamers stand about and shovel the game industry's BS for free.

Talking about Stardock, I've been trying Sins of a Solar Empire. It's quite a good RTS game. You feel they didn't have the super duper budget at hand, but the game is quite nice. The timed demo pissed me off though, and made me wonder if that was done because there wasn't much more content in the whole game than what you got in the demo. But still, I clearly wanted to continue playing.

Aren't timed demos about giving you a chance to experience to full-on game for up to an hour? That's how I understood it. They're "trials" if you will.

 

[Royas]

Okay, but there's another industry that corresponds to this. The Music industry. In fact, for comparison's sake, it's quite handy. You've got the big record labels (ie. Publishers) and then the artists themselves (ie. Developers, producers, concept artists, etc). The artists barely care about the sales, because that's not where they make their money. They make it off touring and writing songs (continuing our example, making games). A few years ago, when piracy was oh so new, the music industry was up in arms about pirates, pressing charges, tracking them down, filing lawsuits, etc. And then after that, they stopped, relatively cold. And music industry piracy continues. It's probably quite a bit larger than the piracy in the gaming industry, because, let's face it, if you sell 1 million copies of your album, you're indie. If you sell 1 million copies of your game, you've made it. Also, it's more mainstream than gaming so more people will pirate. Prosecuting offenders and protecting their product has cost the industry (perhaps suing the pirates' mommies and daddies = $0).

You never heard the music industry go "oi! album sales were so low because of piracy!" And because if they'd said something like that, it'd be BS. It was always a case of people making tons of money going "hey! I'm making a few less tons." It was a joke when the US Congress held the hearings because the only artists who showed up to express hardships resulting from piracy were the one-hit wonders. The only buzz I've ever heard around the industry and piracy these days are the success stories, the ones who's careers got a huge boost out of their songs getting downloaded for free. I never understood why people didn't take the music industry's BS, but we gamers stand about and shovel the game industry's BS for free.

Actually, the RIAA regularly blamed (and probably still blames) lower sales on piracy all the time. Just run a quick search on Google for RIAA, blame, piracy, and sales, and you will get a veritable cornucopia of results. If anything, the RIAA is to blame for the software blame game some developers are playing today. After all, if they can BS about it, so can the game devs.

 

[Arbre]

If developers and publishers want people to buy their games, the simple solution is to make buying games a more preferable option to piracy. How? Well, there are a number of ways.

Firstly, game prices need to come down. A new game in HMV can go for nearly fifty quid. I could buy the Director's Cut of the Lord of the Rings trilogy, and it still wouldn't cost as much as Assassin's Creed. Ask any mother umming and aaing about getting their kid a console for their birthday, and the same answer crops up- "But the games are so expensive." It's easy to see why people resort to piracy, when going out and buying a game is such an expensive investment. I remember when Playstation games cost £25 quid. To me, that was a fortune. Now, it seems like pocket change.

Be careful through, by lowering a product's price, you also depreciate its value in the consumer's mind. They'll think of it as a cheap game. The only real good way to sell wagons of the game at a lower price is also to boost the marketing campaign to make it sure that people get that it's a good game.
In these days of poverty, you could even play it consumer friendly, with directly open messages about we sell the game at this price not because it's bad, but because we want you to have the power to purchase it for the full true experience.
Or something like that.

Secondly, why don't developers include more freebies with their games? Perhaps this may seem a little corny, but people love free stuff. The fact that piracy is a problem shows that by itself. Why not get Capcom to include a free poster, or some stickers, or some badges, or something with Devil May Cry? People love things like that, and last time I checked the Pirate Bay wasn't giving away free Glados posters with its Portal torrents. Things like this may seem inconsequential, but people love to feel like they've got a bargain, and extra goodies help this no end.

Yes, boxing has really been underappreciated. It would have been neat to buy DMC4 in a wooden dark box with metallic bolts which would have looked like it could house Ivory and Ebony.
Imagine bying Tron 2.0 in an Identity Disc, instead of some random square box?

Thirdly, why don't publishers negotiate more with retailers to make buying games a more attractive option? How about if you buy this game, you get a voucher entitling you to 10% off the next title you get in-store? Or why not use 2-for-1 deals to get rid of those surplus copies of Psychonauts you've got in the back room? Hey, here's another idea. You get bands turning up at CD stores to do signings, play gigs and promote their latest efforts right? Why not get developers to actually go out to game stores, demo their latest offerings for anyone interested, and sign any copies of their previous games that people may have brought along? People will have another reason to go to the game store, and who knows, maybe they'll pick up another game while they're there.

I'm going to tell you why.
Lazy.

Bundles are a secret weapon. I literally DREAM of the day you'll build your own basket at a brick & mortar retailer, have access to very low prices for hits the moment you buy more of them.
You should really get out of the shop with rich and complete packages, several games, offers, tickets for online services, significant reductions for future sales, plenty of goods, all that stuff.

 

[Arbre]

Talking about Stardock, I've been trying Sins of a Solar Empire. It's quite a good RTS game. You feel they didn't have the super duper budget at hand, but the game is quite nice. The timed demo pissed me off though, and made me wonder if that was done because there wasn't much more content in the whole game than what you got in the demo. But still, I clearly wanted to continue playing.

Aren't timed demos about giving you a chance to experience to full-on game for up to an hour? That's how I understood it. They're "trials" if you will.

Yes, and it's a mixed strategy. A decade ago, I didn't feel I needed a timed demo to want to buy a game which demo only had one or two entry levels.
Unless I missed something, in this game, you don't have access to a full experience, only three skirmish scenarii if you want to fight against AIs straight out of the blue.
The timed stuff, especially for a game which smells A double A, worries me, because of the impression I described above. If it wasn't for the gameplay, which for some surprising reason, has me want to grab the full stuff even if I may only play it for 10-20 hours, I'd be very cautious with this.
I'd rather have a full level, maybe two, but know that there's truly more beyond that, than the impression that I've already seen it all and that what limited my experience was just a clock ticking, like if my mum had been monitoring my machine and switching it off a nine o'clock. The hell.
It really depends of the game. If you know there's a good deal of variety, you don't care much about the timed experience I suppose.
May just be me though.

 

[Harrr]

It's just simple math - why be an honest person when you can download the game for free and spend the money on something else instead?

Because that's the way I actually love my games?! In original package, with all the extra stuff that comes along with it?! Now, if you'll excuse me, there's a shit load of torrents I need to leech from my private trackers, including TL and IPT and RevoTT and so on, and on...

ZOMG!!! THERE'S ANOTHER PERMABANHAMMER COMING TOWARDS MY FACE!!! PLEASE, MAKE IT STOP!!! MAKE IT STOP!!! IT HURTS!!! IT HURTS!!! OH, GOD!!! JESUS!!! FUCK!!! NOOOOO!!!