Diablo 3 "Always Online" Requirement Helps Fight Hackers, Says Blizzard

[Torrasque]

~Mountain out of a molehill~

Wow.
You realize that you are arguing with me, on the internet right?
You realize that D2 really really sucks offline, right? Sure you can play through the campaign once or twice with your toon, but their gear is going to be really random, and you're going to have to pick a really random skill set so you can survive on your own. D2 is fun with a party, not by yourself.

ZOMG, I ONLY BROUGHT UP FPS GAMES, BOO HOO. Those were the most relevant examples I could think of, so nitpicking that is just being a nitpicky crybaby. Most computer games require internets, and multiplayer games obviously need internet. Diablo has always been primarily a single player game, but if you just played D2 offline, then you missed out on 90% of the fun that was D2.

Starcraft and Warcraft servers don't go down every tuesday. You're just talking about WoW.

All of your points don't argue anything interesting or convincing, so either try again, or go play offline D2, and tell me how much fun you had lvl capping at 42 where it takes a trillion imps to lvl up.

 

[Torrasque]

You realize that D2 really really sucks offline, right? Sure you can play through the campaign once or twice with your toon, but their gear is going to be really random, and you're going to have to pick a really random skill set so you can survive on your own. D2 is fun with a party, not by yourself.

I don't normally stick my nose into other people's arguments, but that is a subjective opinion, not a statement of fact. I for one had plenty of fun playing D2 offline, planning my skill choices and weighing up the pros and cons of going down a particular tree. I reckon I had less fun playing co-op because that was all about killing creeps and getting loot, no time for stopping to do the story stuff, which is what I really enjoy doing.

So each to his own, you enjoyed D2 with a party, I prefer solo.

But in offline, you get to the end of the first difficulty, and can't progress.
Ok, maybe you can, but imo, killing a trillion imps is not my idea of fun. The difficulty curve for D2 is really unkind to single player.
I had lots of time to play through the story mode with a party, and enjoyed it so much more with my friends than solo.
Yes you are more likely to just run and kill shit with parties of randoms, but thats because they're randoms.

My main argument against offline play, is that parties are stronger than singular, and D2 gets really hard really fast when you're by yourself.
I beat through the campaign my first time as an offline Necro, but couldn't do shit in the next difficulty because I couldn't kill anything. I tried with a Barb and Sorc, but the Barb got stuck in Act 2, and the Sorc kept running into immune mobs in Act 3.

The most fun I've had in D2 (and probably all of gaming) was playing multiplayer hardcore mode.
My lvl 97 smiterdin was so much fun.

 

[Lord_Jaroh]

You realize that D2 really really sucks offline, right? Sure you can play through the campaign once or twice with your toon, but their gear is going to be really random, and you're going to have to pick a really random skill set so you can survive on your own. D2 is fun with a party, not by yourself.

I don't normally stick my nose into other people's arguments, but that is a subjective opinion, not a statement of fact. I for one had plenty of fun playing D2 offline, planning my skill choices and weighing up the pros and cons of going down a particular tree. I reckon I had less fun playing co-op because that was all about killing creeps and getting loot, no time for stopping to do the story stuff, which is what I really enjoy doing.

So each to his own, you enjoyed D2 with a party, I prefer solo.

But in offline, you get to the end of the first difficulty, and can't progress.
Ok, maybe you can, but imo, killing a trillion imps is not my idea of fun. The difficulty curve for D2 is really unkind to single player.
I had lots of time to play through the story mode with a party, and enjoyed it so much more with my friends than solo.
Yes you are more likely to just run and kill shit with parties of randoms, but thats because they're randoms.

My main argument against offline play, is that parties are stronger than singular, and D2 gets really hard really fast when you're by yourself.
I beat through the campaign my first time as an offline Necro, but couldn't do shit in the next difficulty because I couldn't kill anything. I tried with a Barb and Sorc, but the Barb got stuck in Act 2, and the Sorc kept running into immune mobs in Act 3.

The most fun I've had in D2 (and probably all of gaming) was playing multiplayer hardcore mode.
My lvl 97 smiterdin was so much fun.

I had fun in D2 sitting down when it first launched and playing for 72 hours straight with a bunch of friends on LAN. I also had fun playing through single player many times with multiple Barbarians, Necros and Druids. I made it to, and through, Hell difficulty many times trying out various skill combinations and hunting for better gear. The random mix of items made the game feel more alive, and every playthrough different.

Your arguement against offline play was that it was too hard for you and you want the game on easy mode? What we're arguing is that we want you to have that easy mode, but we also want to be able to play our way as well, and considering it won't affect the way you play your game, it shouldn't bother you at all.

You know what I miss the most about B.net? "Realm Down" and "Connection Timed Out". I also loved the large amount of spam that happened in any chatroom, or any non-passworded game that I started up. I miss the scammers and hackers and cheaters, yes. But you know what is going to be happening within the first 48 hours of game launch? Spamming, hacking and cheating. I guarantee it. Lag will also happen, and thus there will be many hardcore characters killed due to technical faults of the game, and not lack of skill.

If I were even to bother playing D3, the "multiplayer" game would be limited to 1 person (namely, me) and no one else...so am I playing it wrong? Considering I never played D2 with strangers, and mainly played multiplayer via LAN play, my "multiplayer" game was primarily single player, and you know what? I enjoyed it!

I also enjoyed trying out the various mods that numerous people created for the game. Of course D3 won't officially be supporting mods either, despite the work that community did for the game. But that's okay. D2 didn't officially support mods either...

 

[Epona]

Some have argued that this type of DRM cuts gamers off, those who don't have reliable internet, those who travel, etc..

This is absolutely correct and it's funny how the game industry enjoys shooting itself in the foot. I can't think of any other industry that actually thinks of ways to push customers away. How do they think this will end?

I think it will end with the industry shrinking and then once again they will be offering spawn installs and asking you to loan your game to a friend so they can try it. That's also what needs to happen. This industry grew too fast and has let it go to their heads. Pushing your own customers away won't end with higher profits, nor should it.

 

[DonTsetsi]

I also enjoyed trying out the various mods that numerous people created for the game. Of course D3 won't officially be supporting mods either, despite the work that community did for the game. But that's okay. D2 didn't officially support mods either...

Problem is, a big part of the game is not on the CD. That's why there is no offline and why mods would be very difficult to implement.

 

[wulfy42]

What is up with this killing a million imps in D2? I played through solo most of the time...even when doing so online for the trading and runewords etc......and I never had a problem on any difficulty. For years I played mostly offline due to bad internet connection (lag deaths really annoyed me). Now my main computer has internet through a wireless router (Verizon) which goes down regularly a few times a week and often has lag spikes. Yes, I can probably change my internet provider to have a better connection but it's going to cost alot more to do so. I'd do it anyway to be able to play D3 online though.....but I can certainly see how some people would object to having to do so.

I really won't be happy when my internet is down (which btw is often when I play games since I can't work) and I can't play D3 because I have to be connected. Perhaps if they made it so you just had to connect to the server to start playing....but then could play for as long as you wanted after that...requiring only a connection to the server again at the end to save your character or something.

Having to have a constant online connection is going to be problematic to me and many other people I think...and I LOVE D2 (and hope to love D3).

 

[conflictofinterests]

Why the fuck does the "Diablo Community" give two shits about people cheating in offline singleplayer? Really, if that's not the dumbest complaint I've ever heard out of a community's mouth, it's the dumbest excuse I've ever heard out of a developer's.

That being said, I still maintain that I doubt there will be enough protection for useless n00bs like myself just trying to have a good time from PvP'ing bastards like there ALWAYS are in a game that is online without exception.

 

[Stainlesssteele4]

Its just a way to make piracy difficult, but in reality, they've only bought a few more days before it gets cracked

 

[Rouzeki]

Wow.
You realize that you are arguing with me, on the internet right?

Frankly I was more firing my point into thin air, expecting no direct response and using your post as the dissection recipient, but if you WANT me to argue back...

You realize that D2 really really sucks offline, right? Sure you can play through the campaign once or twice with your toon, but their gear is going to be really random, and you're going to have to pick a really random skill set so you can survive on your own. D2 is fun with a party, not by yourself.

Part 1, we are arguing for the OPTION of tackling it when we want and under our own terms.
part 2, some only did it once or twice- I replayed acts 1-3 alone more then Ive played most games on my shelves, LANned with family or just mucking about on my own.

Yeah the gears going to be really random. I'd say the point of a hack and slash is what gear you find and putting what you find to good use. Most of the time i recall being in multiplayer on D2, i just got less loot. not more useful stuff.

skills are only going to be as random as varying builds found online and the random stuff you think up one night in a daze. you had a lot of time at your own leisure to experiment whenever you pleased, even if your modem blacked out.

Whether or not it sucks offline is a subjective count. you may think so, but I say why not have the option at the very least?

ZOMG, I ONLY BROUGHT UP FPS GAMES, BOO HOO. Those were the most relevant examples I could think of,

your most relevant comparisons to forcing a hack and slash to only being playable online is quoting 3 fps games (about the 3rd most viable type for an always online game) that still have offline means? sorry, but not all game styles are created equal for online use. D2's use of online just let other people in for the ride, balancing as it went aside from the duels. Games that mainly avenue in a co-op online experience I feel shouldn't be as strict as ones with an outright competitive one depending on genre, but i feel a hacky/slashy game is probably one of the more key ones for single player fun as an option.

now if we were arguing starcraft II, id be closer in agreement, because the heart of that game IS competitive play. but at least blizzard let us choose to play the campaign offline if we feel we want to (oh noes, my poor poor achivs.)

but then, Blizz has said they are supporting PVP more with this iteration, so maybe I'm just a moron.

Most computer games require internets, and multiplayer games obviously need internet. Diablo has always been primarily a single player game, but if you just played D2 offline, then you missed out on 90% of the fun that was D2.

computer games these days, yes to patch, but last I checked I didn't need steam always connected to play a round of painkiller or terraria. yes i used my connection to play league of legends an hour ago, but some games are more acceptable for broadband connection then others.

so i missed out on 70% of D2 because i didn't feel like crashing into games every day with a buncha random folk? oh boy, because its SOO much fun playing random multiplayer in most OTHER games these days. Yet Diablo was a single player game. and D2 had the option to take single player (AND multiplayer) multiple ways. huh. I wonder what D3 lacks.

*cue alarmist tone*Like many other dev houses these days, they see fit to remove a way we can enjoy the game, and wait to see what we'll do, even if that removal cuts players out from physically buying the copy. */drop the tone*

Starcraft and Warcraft servers don't go down every tuesday. You're just talking about WoW.

Maybe to many hazy Tuesday mornings HAVE blurred together, but I distinctly remember not being able to play WoW, then not being able to play starcraft II right after that more than once. you'll have-ta inform me if it'll be the same when D3 drops, wontcha?

All of your points don't argue anything interesting or convincing, so either try again, or go play offline D2, and tell me how much fun you had lvl capping at 42 where it takes a trillion imps to lvl up.

I have no real reason to even post back- my thoughts of the game are set in stone, as I'm sure yours are. there's no sense in me trying to persuade you, and if you took offense because I used your post, know that I did so because every.single.time. I go diving into a D3 thread, I get one like yours that gets to me to want to post.

Call me whatever you will, what blizzard is doing makes me irate. it feels like a spit in the face to me, as well as anyone not in consistent broadband-land. i get alarmist because of the possible implications, but really there is absolutely nothing to worry about, right?

 

[jp201]

Trading offline play for fewer cheaters is fair, right?

Wrong for several reasons:
1) People will find a way to cheat through.
2) I don't care if someone wants to cheat, as he's only ruining it for himself.
3) My internet connection sometimes dies on me without me noticing - which could mean losing hours of gameplay. I know there are many other gamers who have this problem.

The only online DRM That I can tolerate is steamworks.

Yeah other people cheating will ruin the fun for a lot of people playing the game fair.

Duping in diablo 2 was awful as it flooded the market with mostly fake SoJ that could disappear on you so trading was very risky and also there was even a risk of having an item you don't even know was duped could result in a banned account.

You do realize that all characters you make will be saved onto their servers so you will not lose anything you acquired.

Also in the single player you have to realize that unless you have something like dial up, you will be able to run the game fine as it is only the server and your game.

If you play multi player well you will have to deal with it no matter what way blizzard decided to do this.

The problem I have is the lack of mod support for diablo 3. There should be a way to support moding similar to have they do it in WoW but ban certain mods that give a player an unfair advantage.

 

[Jodah]

So, bets on how long it takes for someone to crack the game and for it to make it to the top of the "most pirated game ever" list?

Not that I condone piracy but crap like this is just asking for it. Oh well, I've been slowly turn off of Blizzard games for awhile. This is just one of the final nails in the coffin. The only game I will be buying of theirs now is Starcraft (assuming they don't make it always online too).

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

But in offline, you get to the end of the first difficulty, and can't progress.
Ok, maybe you can, but imo, killing a trillion imps is not my idea of fun. The difficulty curve for D2 is really unkind to single player.
I had lots of time to play through the story mode with a party, and enjoyed it so much more with my friends than solo.
Yes you are more likely to just run and kill shit with parties of randoms, but thats because they're randoms.

My main argument against offline play, is that parties are stronger than singular, and D2 gets really hard really fast when you're by yourself.
I beat through the campaign my first time as an offline Necro, but couldn't do shit in the next difficulty because I couldn't kill anything. I tried with a Barb and Sorc, but the Barb got stuck in Act 2, and the Sorc kept running into immune mobs in Act 3.

The most fun I've had in D2 (and probably all of gaming) was playing multiplayer hardcore mode.
My lvl 97 smiterdin was so much fun.

So offline play should be phased out because Blizzard are incapable of balancing the difficulty to scale according to the number of players? That doesn't solve the problem in the slightest if you're going to be playing solo online.

 

[Torrasque]

I am sick of arguing about D3 with people. Who can and cannot see sense.
Yes, some of you made good points, and some of you made completely retarded points. I'm not going to name names, because I really don't care at this point.

I am going to buy D3 and play the fuck out of it.
If you really don't want to play it, then don't.

/leaves

 

[eNTi]

i rather have hackers... also, i used ATMA on more than one occasion. wtf would anyone care?

 

[AndyFromMonday]

Because of how Diablo 2's single-player mode interacted with the multi-player mode. You could take your character that was in single-player and USE IT online, taking those items with you, or bringing new items into the game.

Could they have just removed that sort of access completely? Sure, probably. I'm not sure how it would be done, in technical terms, but it probably could have been.

But, as the rep said, giving the hackers access to an 'offline server' would make it easier for them to hack the actual servers, and start duping and cheating all over again. It's a lose-lose situation for Blizzard.

How about just forcing you to create two different characters? Also, access to an "offline server"? That makes no fucking sense at all.

 

[PingoBlack]

It's basic ownership rights. Someone may have invented the shovel at some point but does that mean when I buy it I need a construction worker to stand by me at all times to verify that it is indeed my shovel, and THEN tell me how to fucking use it?

You do not own software. Not in the way you assume.
But most of all, even if you could actually own software: It would be AFTER purchase! You bought it already? Right.

It's Blizzard's game. Period.

If they tell you up front, before purchase, that internet is required it's all fine and dandy, other than you throwing a childish fit because poppa didn't buy you ice cream.

Please stop this pathetic entitlement syndrome. Do it for the children!

 

[PingoBlack]

So, bets on how long it takes for someone to crack the game and for it to make it to the top of the "most pirated game ever" list?

Its just a way to make piracy difficult, but in reality, they've only bought a few more days before it gets cracked

Just like World of Warcraft was? Sure, if you enjoy private servers with no rules.

You do not see pirated players mixing with normal WoW population, because you cannot authenticate on Battle.net without proper account. If Diablo 3 uses same data model to store character and items, good luck waiting for your crack.

Guys ... stop this reverse logic. If you don't like it, don't buy it. But do not justify stealing stuff.

 

[seditary]

However, "most people" isn't everyone, and it's a little disappointing that Blizzard couldn't come up with a better way to stop people cheating than dictating how people play the game.

Most people will never be everyone. Even in 20 years it will never be everyone. How many people of everyone do you propose it be until its enough of everyone?