Director Kevin Smith Angers Buyers With a Fake-Out at Sundance

qbanknight

New member
Apr 15, 2009
669
0
0
"Yeah fuck the man!" -says Smith's supporters

I'm going to fucking laugh when he has a tough time trying to sell the movie to regular film goers. Film goers who ignore masterful works like Scott Pilgrim and Kick-Ass because of poor advertising and flock to see mass-marketed splooges like Expendables and Tron. Have fun getting back that $4 million. Actually, have fun asking people for more money for your next film (your last film, supposedly)
 
Apr 28, 2008
14,634
0
0
qbanknight said:
"Yeah fuck the man!" -says Smith's supporters

I'm going to fucking laugh when he has a tough time trying to sell the movie to regular film goers. Film goers who ignore masterful works like Scott Pilgrim and Kick-Ass because of poor advertising and flock to see mass-marketed splooges like Expendables and Tron. Have fun getting back that $4 million. Actually, have fun asking people for more money for your next film (your last film, supposedly)
Well most films have budgets in the hundreds of millions. Hell District 9's budget was $30-60 million, and thats considered small.

So he'll most likely make back the money. But yeah, doubt he's going to get much support for any future films.
 

SendMeNoodz84

New member
Jun 11, 2009
560
0
0
Booze Zombie said:
"A fat, masturbating stoner"?
Is that seriously the best fucking insult a publication can come up with?

Anyway... good on him. I hate advertising, though this seems a bit counter-productive to his career.
He made that one himself.
 

CJ1145

Elite Member
Jan 6, 2009
4,051
0
41
Sutter Cane said:
CJ1145 said:
I like Kevin Smith. This is hard to justify, but he gets my sympathy over the dubmass who called him a 'fat, masturbating stoner'. It's kind of weird, the articles I disagree with (for one reason or another) all seem to come from this one editor in particular.
Um, the dumbass who called Kevin Smith a fat masturbating stoner was Kevin Smith.
Meh.
 

Outright Villainy

New member
Jan 19, 2010
4,334
0
0
I have mixed feelings on smith. I mean yeah, Clerks was great, and Dogma was alright I guess, but he seems to put his foot in it every other time I hear about him these days.

That was a pretty dickish thing to do anyway.
 

Gindil

New member
Nov 28, 2009
1,621
0
0
ImprovizoR said:
Pissing off Hollywood can't be healthy for one's career. But I like it. Go Kevin Smith. Also, make another movie with Jay and Silent Bob. And lose some weight.
I gotta disagree...

He may be pissing off people but look at what he's doing...

He's foregoing the "normal" route of having Hollywood rape him a new one and being a part of a system. He's entrepreneurial enough to try to make the $4 mil himself. And he has the Tweet followers that support him and would love to talk to him after each show.

This is actually the beginning of a new system. The guy is trying something new and I don't know what may happen from it. That's kind of exciting.
 

Reaper195

New member
Jul 5, 2009
2,055
0
0
Oh no, a bunch of people were insulted so now they feel they need to complain to the media about how they really are (I don't care what they say) 'not' about advertising instead of making good films. I support Smith with a thumbs up, and a 'grow some balls' to the crying adults.
 

Loonerinoes

New member
Apr 9, 2009
889
0
0
It's fun to attack the system. It's less fun though to also screw over the people supporting it. And whereas screwing them over merely with harsh language is one thing that far too many people in an industry of any sorts are too sensitive about (see Tim Schafer having to regret his words about Kotick), yeah...this went quite past that by wasting their time too heh.

But ah well. If the last quote about never quite considering himself to be a filmaker to begin with is true, then you know what? I suppose in a way one can't say the warning signs he had given away beforehand weren't there. And if it'll be his last movie, fuck it. He gave me a solid few laughs in the end.

Either way, if you gotta go out - go out with style I say. And pissing off 'certain' types of people isn't that bad a style in my books.
 

kypsilon

New member
May 16, 2010
384
0
0
There are better ways to get your point across than to alienate an entire industry. I'd say this whole thing is part of a marketing campaign to sell his movie by making him seem "edgy" and "rebellious".

I'm tired of Kevin Smith. Yes, Hollywood is crooked. What a shock.
 

zelda2fanboy

New member
Oct 6, 2009
2,173
0
0
Jumplion said:
I haven't seen any of Kevin Smith's movies, though now I think I will.

I'm the kind of person who thinks everyone should just treat everyone else nicely, so this doesn't go well with me. He basically wasted everyone's time that could have been spent on supporting other, less well known films, and insulted everyone in the process.

Good intentions or not, I just don't see an excuse for bad mannerisms. But, then again, I'm being a Proper Polly here, so whatever.
A lot of this story has some embellishment to it. Sure, one buyer may have complained that their time was wasted, but that's their job to go watch movies. Also, checking the schedule, the only stuff they missed out on was a Shorts program, a documentary about Chaz Bono's sex change, and Morgan Spurlock's new movie (which is, ironically, a publicity stunt about getting an independent film sold).

The whole system is a load of bunk when you think about it and they sort of had it coming. None of the distributers or producers in that room put in any effort toward getting that film made, and in many cases directly turned Smith down. Why should outside third parties have to take these huge financial risks with distribution companies swooping in at the last second and reaping the benefits?
 

Jumplion

New member
Mar 10, 2008
7,873
0
0
zelda2fanboy said:
Jumplion said:
I haven't seen any of Kevin Smith's movies, though now I think I will.

I'm the kind of person who thinks everyone should just treat everyone else nicely, so this doesn't go well with me. He basically wasted everyone's time that could have been spent on supporting other, less well known films, and insulted everyone in the process.

Good intentions or not, I just don't see an excuse for bad mannerisms. But, then again, I'm being a Proper Polly here, so whatever.
A lot of this story has some embellishment to it. Sure, one buyer may have complained that their time was wasted, but that's their job to go watch movies. Also, checking the schedule, the only stuff they missed out on was a Shorts program, a documentary about Chaz Bono's sex change, and Morgan Spurlock's new movie (which is, ironically, a publicity stunt about getting an independent film sold).

The whole system is a load of bunk when you think about it and they sort of had it coming. None of the distributers or producers in that room put in any effort toward getting that film made, and in many cases directly turned Smith down. Why should outside third parties have to take these huge financial risks with distribution companies swooping in at the last second and reaping the benefits?
To be honest, I don't really know exactly how the distribution system quite works in Hollywood (which isn't great, since I'm planning on getting into Hollywood as a career later in life), mind giving a rundown for me?

But really, I just like people being nice to everyone, so Smith here doesn't really seem like a prize catch. His intentions might be good, but there's probably a better way to execute those intentions to everyone.

EDIT: Bleh, know what? We'll just see what bodes for Kevin Smith here.
 

EvolutionKills

New member
Jul 20, 2008
197
0
0
Ghengis John said:
Elizabeth Grunewald said:
Smith came out and gave what The Hollywood Reporter calls "a long and profanity-laced speech" in which the director "lambasted movie studios for a system he said is unfair and outdated and too focused on advertising."
That's pretty uncool there Kevin, lambasting the advertising driven studio system to pull a publicity stunt. No matter what you might think of the system, the guy's who's time you wasted are human beings. In the least you owe them a fricking apology, you ass. I mean all the people there had to be there because they liked Smith's work or had some measure of respect for Smith, otherwise they wouldn't wanna buy into one of his films. And so this is how he treats his SUPPORTERS.

So he used up 2 hours of their time, big fucking whoop. I'm sure as hell not crying a river for them. Theses people were not there because they liked Kevin Smith, or his films. They were there because it was a business opportunity. They thought that they would be able to get a return on their investment, depending on who walked out of their with distribution rights. All it is is business, and that was the whole damn point. If he had pulled this stunt in front of a bunch of his REAL SUPPORTERS (i.e. his fans), they would have given him a standing ovation. Because they would have been happy as all hell to have spent 2 hours of their lives watching a free screening of his latest movie.

Remember, there is no point in preaching to the choir. These guys are 'hurt' because Kevin Smith made fun of them, and 'wasted' their oh so valuable time that they could have spent scouting other movies in a process to make more money. It's all just business, but Smith made it personal, and they're whining like children. They need to seriously grow a pair and get over it. So some 'fat, masturbating stoner' tricked them into seeing his movie, then went through a 20 minute song-and-dance routine lambasting them for it. Worse things have happened.

The sad part is, that even after all that, they were still ready to bid on it. They're probably just really pissed that they didn't get to purchase the distribution rights, and now they're pouting about how their feeling were hurt. The fact that they are really that shallow is probably why Smith did this in the first place, and more power to him. He wants to go do his own thing, to sink-or-swim on his own merits, I wish him the best. And if he upsets the status quo in the process, so much the better.
 

Bunnymarn

New member
Oct 8, 2008
243
0
0
This is how you do it. He's doing what he wants and, seemingly, doesn't really care what other people think. That's more than what I can say for most people.

And he wasted people's time? So what? I'm sure they've wasted much more time throughout the course of their lives.
 

dthree

Hey!
Jun 13, 2008
165
0
0
I still think the fan-financed version of this film would have been bigger news.
 

zelda2fanboy

New member
Oct 6, 2009
2,173
0
0
Jumplion said:
To be honest, I don't really know exactly how the distribution system quite works in Hollywood (which isn't great, since I'm planning on getting into Hollywood as a career later in life), mind giving a rundown for me?
Someone asking for MY expertise? I'd never pass that up. Basically, I know very little myself, but a lot of what I do know comes from the making of documentaries on DVDs, many of which are attached to Kevin Smith films (and are often better than the movies themselves). The Clerks blu ray/ Clerks X dvd set has a really sharp one in particular. There's also a great history of films retrospective TCM did called "Moguls & Movie Stars: A History of Hollywood" that covers just about everything business-wise from 1900 to 1970. Another good one is The Kid Stays in the Picture, all about former actor Robert Evans elbowing his way into an executive position in the 70s and 80s.

The way it USED to work was that the major studios owned everything from the production down to the theaters. That's why you occasionally see a theater called The Paramount. RKO movies went to RKO theaters, MGM movies were only at MGM theaters, etc. This system was broken up because it was a monopoly, but the distribution line still exists. Big companies, like Warner Bros produce their own movies and distribute their own movies. The distribution end consists of everything from advertising the movie, negotiating with exhibitors to show the movie, literally manufacturing the prints of the film, shipping them to theaters, and collecting the ticket revenue. Really big guys like Warner can even force the exhibitors to buy and play crappy movies, in order to get the right to exhibit the good ones. It costs a theater a good chunk of change to lease a print of a film, too.

In the case of independent film, the model is a bit different. Lately (and the trend is dying out) it's been a pseudo-studio system, where indie films get bought up by the big studios under the label of a smaller branch. Brands likes Paramount Vantage (defunct), Miramax (Disney owned, also defunct), Fox Searchlight, Fox Atomic (no longer exists) etc. put out stuff like There Will Be Blood, 28 Days Later, Slumdog Millionaire, Little Miss Sunshine, and Juno. These movies have fairly big stars and budgets in them, too, so they really don't look like REAL indie films at the end of the day. But with studios so ready and willing to buy up movies with famous actors in them (at film festivals like Sundance and Cannes), it's not that big of a risk for independent financiers to put money behind it.

In the meantime, studios generally stick with the safest possible bets when producing their own flicks. Kids movies, PG-13 horror movies, superhero movies, romantic comedies... and generally don't put too much of their own money into stuff that could be controversial or (more likely) unprofitable. Really, the more you learn about this stuff, the less you want to get into it yourself. It's a big 'ol confusing mess with astronomically unfavorable odds. Smith's own origin story is ridiculous in the amounts of ways he could have failed.

Edit: However, most independent movies don't end up with major distributers. These go with smaller companies who get brief theatrical runs, movies ondemand on cable, movies into premium channel programming, or direct to DVD. All of which falls under the category of "distribution." Also, all of those forms of distribution can be broken up contractually, so different companies can put out a movie in different ways in different countries. A movie could come out on DVD only in the US, but play theatrically in Canada, such as the case with Louis CK's latest standup concert movie. Or stream HD to theaters which is a really weird new way of doing things that I've yet to witness firsthand, but I seen it advertised for stuff like Operas (or again, the Louis CK movie).
 

Jumplion

New member
Mar 10, 2008
7,873
0
0
zelda2fanboy said:
Jumplion said:
To be honest, I don't really know exactly how the distribution system quite works in Hollywood (which isn't great, since I'm planning on getting into Hollywood as a career later in life), mind giving a rundown for me?
Someone asking for MY expertise? I'd never pass that up.
*le snip-e*
That's a helluvah lot of information, but thank you, I'll definitely look into that "Moguls and Movie Stars" movie, I'm going through all the classic movies I've missed out on through Netflix anyway (speaking of, any suggestions?). I do understand that Hollywood is a business n' all, and there's all sorts of tricks and trades you've got to know, but it's a bit saddening to see this kind of stuff. I may not agree with Smith's methods, but I do wish him the best. I guess you could say part of me is still a bit starry-eyed and philanthropic in my jaded self.
 

zelda2fanboy

New member
Oct 6, 2009
2,173
0
0
Jumplion said:
That's a helluvah lot of information, but thank you, I'll definitely look into that "Moguls and Movie Stars" movie, I'm going through all the classic movies I've missed out on through Netflix anyway (speaking of, any suggestions?). I do understand that Hollywood is a business n' all, and there's all sorts of tricks and trades you've got to know, but it's a bit saddening to see this kind of stuff. I may not agree with Smith's methods, but I do wish him the best. I guess you could say part of me is still a bit starry-eyed and philanthropic in my jaded self.
Netflix really kinda skews recent and I can't really come with a "need to see" list. It's kind of a personal endeavor, you know? My best recommendation to catch up on oldies would be to browse through this list
http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=greatmovies_fulllist

Say what you will about his video game stance, but the man KNOWS his shit when it comes to movies. His "great movies" reviews are fountains of information on what a particular movie is about and why it is important to him and film history in general. Other than that, keep a keen eye on TCM because they're really good when it comes to doing director, theme, and era retrospective movie nights. Also, watch anything with Humphrey Bogart in it. I've yet to see a bad one.
 

Wolfenbarg

Terrible Person
Oct 18, 2010
682
0
0
While I love a bold move to "stick it to the man" as much as anyone else, this was still a total dick move. A number of you seem to be under the false impression that these guys were all rich fatcats that soiled their diapers because Kevin Smith the revolutionary told them where to stick it. You may not realize, but these independent distributors are many times the ONLY reason you see a diversity of films in the theaters. Everything from Juno to Monsters to Paranormal Activity would have gone completely under the radar or may not have even been made if there wasn't a method of selling these pictures to an arm of a major studio.

His idea of promoting his own movie is like the dream of every filmmaker, but the people he just blasted aren't bad people. He was fed up with the system and made a complete dick move as a result.