Discuss and Rate the Last Film You Watched

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Xprimentyl

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Avatar: The Way Of Water: Great / Great

Catching up several years after the first film, man has returned to Pandora for yet another precious resource, and Sully and his [now] people must rise against them to push them out [again.] Oh, and they really stretched it to bring the first film's infamous villain back again which I seriously wish they hadn't; Id' have have much preferred someone new to hate.

I thoroughly enjoyed this film. If you didn't like the first Avatar, stay away. Felt a bit forced, but it's so beautifully done, it gets a pass.

Lastly... There's a dark as fuck moment towards the end that goes completely unacknowledged and unexamined by the characters.
After seeing it, I'm curious what moment you're referring to.

The Fabelmans: A'ight / Great

The semi-autobiographical story about the early life of Stephen Spielberg.

This was a rough watch if only because, like most, I tuned in to see a story about Spielberg, but it's actually more about a family in turmoil. I don't know how much of it is true, but even fictionalized, that kid had it really rough. Then the movie does very little to capture Spielberg's meteoric rise to significance. The movie has all the trappings of a story that starts out as one thing, then drags you down the path of another, only to conclude with a lazy "oh, yeah, then they lived happily ever after."
 
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Hawki

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Avatar: The Way of Water (7/10)

Really, I should give it a 7.8. Had too much water in it.

Snark aside, in actual fact, 7/10 is arguably too generous. Since I'm coming at this film from a place of bias, it's probably worth more of a 6. On the other hand, being as objective as possible, I do think this is a "good," if not great film at the end of the day, but it's a weaker film than the original, and its quality is like that of an inverse bell curve. Strongest at its beginning and end, weakest in its middle, which regrettably, takes up the bulk of the runtime.

So, to review this, I decided that the best way to go about things was to divide the movie into four sections. I'm not saying it's a four-act structure per se, but I think it's the best way to evaluate said movie. Also, going to be major spoilers, so turn back now if you're worried. So on that note:

Part 1

By my estimate, this lasts about 10 minutes, and is devoted to quickly recapping the first film, and summarizing the 14 years that have passed since the end of said film. Basically it's a quick introduction to Jake's family with Neytiri - three biological children (Neteyam, Lo'ak, Tuk), plus one adopted child (Kiri). You can technically throw Spider in as well (a human born not long before the first movie's end, too small to go into a cryo-pod, so he's grown up on Pandora), but he's not really a son per se. I'm going to address the children characters now, and say that for the most part, they're done well. I won't go into all the details, but Kiri and Lo'ak are the most interesting, Neteyam is barely a character at all, and while Tuk isn't much of a character either, she does have the "cute factor" going on, so that's nice. Part of the problem is that it's hard to tell Neteyam and Lo'ak apart from each other physically, at least at the start. But for the most part, the kids are a good bunch - acting is good, dialogue is good, certainly act like family, etc. I'm also going to take the moment to address a common complaint I've seen in that the kid characters often use human slang, such as "bro" or "*****." However, I really don't think that's an issue - they're shown to be fluent in both English and Na'vi, and they've got an ex-marine for a dad, so if anything, I think this adds to their character, especially since Lo'ak and Kiri are marked as outsiders given their five fingers due to their avatar DNA ("demon blood," as some call it).

So, yeah. First section is good, we're allowed to chill. But then the RDA returns in a quick, but very effective sequence. Again, won't go into details, but basically think War of the Worlds albeit human technology is the equivalent of tripods. It's that kind of shock and awe type of arrival that marks the end of part 1, and shows that shit's got real. But, anyway, Part 1 is pretty solid.

Part 2

Part 2 is also solid, and if anything, I'd have preferred Part 2 to be a template for the movie as a whole. I'm going to summarize a lot of information that isn't presented in this order, but it's easier to set the scene in-universe rather than based on plot.

One year has passed since the RDA has returned to Pandora. In that time, they've established a giant city called Bridgehead, building "more in the last year than we did in the last thirty" (as in, the thirty years prior to the events of the first film). While the RDA of the first film was just here to mine unobtanium, this is full-blown colonization (remember that, because the 'mission statement' gets iffy later), with the intent of turning Pandora into a new home for humanity after the natives are "pacified." I might as well say it here, if you're looking for moral ambiguity here, you won't find it. Apart from a single RDA scientist, every RDA-aligned human is an asshole here. I've always maintained (and still do) that the characters in the first film had shades of grey, but Way of Water has no such thing. Na'vi are good, humans are bad. Which, to be clear, I don't think is inherently a bad thing - plenty of alien invasion movies don't bother with grey morals for the invading aliens - but it does make WOW a very black and white story.

Anyway, humans have Bridgehead, but the planet is fighting back. Jake and the Omaticaya have retreated to the Hallelujah Mountains, and have been conducting guerilla warfare against the RDA, which we see at the start of part 2 in one of their convoy raids - destroying RDA gear, retrieving RDA weapons (apparently the na'vi are fine using guns now, though Neytiri sticks with her bow the entire film). I might as well say that the RDA is hilariously incompetent through the movie in a sense - apart from one major character death, I don't think they kill a single na'vi anywhere, their gunships' cockpits can still be penetrated by arrows, and while the Skel suits are cool (think power armour exoskeletons), they're still useless. On another mention, it's noted that pretty much the entire planet's biosphere is fighting against the RDA. That everytime they enter the mountains, they have 10 minutes before the native flora starts attacking them. It's never really stated outright, but it's pretty much established that Eywa herself is fully aware of the threat the humans pose, and is willing to direct her creatures to fight them. Or, more specifically, humans are triggering the planet's "immune response." How you feel about this is up to you, but me, personally, I think it works - it builds on Eywa's 'character development' (so to speak) from the last film, and really helps solidify Pandora as an alien world with its own rules. Like Earth in many respects, but it's a planet operating as a giant super-organism.

To deal with this, the RDA deploys recombinants - basically avatars implanted with the memories of ex-RDA soldiers, including Quaritch, who's assigned to lead the first (and only?) recom squad. In a nice act of parallels, Quaritch's awakening period is like an inversion of Jake's motions in the first film - wakes up in his recom body, but reacts with terror rather than happiness. Lands on Pandora via shuttle, but takes his mask off rather than put it on. Drifts in zero-g, but his movements are less serene, and so on. Subtle touches, but they work. As to whether Quaritch himself works in the film? I'd say "mostly." There's a dichotomy between old!Quaritch and new!Quaritch, and he alternates (as if unable to decide) whether he should consider himself the same man, or a different man who happens to have another person's memories. It's not something that hasn't been done plenty of times in sci-fi, but in this sense, it kinda works. Anyway, the recoms are sent into the mountains on the bet that because of their biology, Eywa's creatures will see them as na'vi, so they can find out where the rebels (sorry, resistance) are hiding out. It's also at this point that I started getting Star Wars vibes. Make of that what you will.

The recoms are inserted, and it turns out that the wildlife does indeed see them as na'vi. They end up treading over old ground (literally) as they reach the site of Jake's final battle with Quaritch in the first film. In a case of fan service that actually serves the plot, we see flashbacks to the fight as seen through the AMP suit's onboard camera, as recom!Quaritch gets to see his old self die, recovering his old self's dog tags, and crushing human!Quaritch's skull. Nothing groundbreaking, but nice stuff. Turns out, however, that the kids have also stumbled into the area and are taken captive, while Jake, Neytiri, and Neteyam move into attack them in something that's part-Vietnam War, part-Predator, under the cover of an eclipse (eclipses happen three times in this film - apparently its fairly common, as Polythemus passes between Pandora and its primary star). What follows is a gun/bow fight under darkness and in the rain, in what's a pretty neat action sequence. Quaritch wants revenge on Jake, Jake and Neytiri are understandably spooked by Quaritch being, y'know, alive, and so on. I've seen a lot of people praising the film's final action scene, and while I agree with those sentiments, I honestly think this might be the best action scene overall. It's tense, it's moody, it's well shot, etc.

Up to this point, I'd call the movie solidly "good." 8/10, 7/10 at the very least. However, it's after this sequence that the movie takes a sharp turn into the deep end. I honestly thought a scene must have been missing, but Jake, spooked by Quaritch, reasons that he and his family have to flee the mountains as Quaritch will never stop hunting them, that because of Spider, the RDA will soon learn the ins and outs of the area. Okay, first point - the RDA was already hunting you before this, Quaritch returning, while spooky, doesn't actually change much. Second, that Spider has been captured puts everyone at risk, not just Jake and his family. If anything, it makes Jake look like a selfish asshole, because he's running with his family, leaving the Omatikaya to continue fighting, despite the fact that they're now more at risk, and by Jake leaving, they've lost their best asset (since as an ex-marine, he knows how to use guerilla tactics, use human weapons, etc.) This is arguably somewhat mitigated by the fact that WOW doesn't really have a single main character (if there is one, I'd argue it's Lo'ak), so Jake being an idiot/coward doesn't derail the plot as much as it would otherwise, but this move is just bizzare to me. It's like Cameron needed an excuse for the Sullys to go island hopping, and didn't think ot out.

Part 3

Part 3 takes up the bulk of the film, and it's my least favourite. The pacing grinds to a halt, and the structure is arguably a form of vinigettes as Jake and his family learn how to live among a na'vi sea clan. I'm going to establish what I actually liked about this section first, so on that note:

1: The visuals are gorgeous. Seriously, this might be the most photo-realistic film I've ever seen. EVER. I honestly thought at some points that the actors must have gone to a real-world archipelego or something, because the sea scenes are simply that gorgeous to look at.

2: If worldbuilding is your bread and butter, you're going to enjoy this part, because it's really the bulk of it. Not only the culture of the sea clan (Mekinaya, or something, I'm going to use "sea clan" for now) fleshed out, but also the tulkuns (basically Pandoran whales), and even the sea clan themselves are interesting from a physiological level, as their biology has adapted to the sea (e.g. thicker tales for swimming). A common trope in sci-fi is the idea of "a race of hats," where an alien species generally has one defining trait, or at best, conforms to a no. of traits. The sea clan certainly has similarities with the Omatikaya (e.g. have their own Tree of Souls, only it's underwater), but also key differences. Say what you will about the na'vi being space elves, they're at least space elves that aren't uniform.

That's really all the good I can say however, because despite the above, the plot really, REALLY slows down at this point. It's not bad, not really, but it's clear that worldbuilding (or spectacle, if you're cynical) has taken precedence over plot at this point. Not necessarily character, in that Lo'ak and Kiri certainly have character development, but whatever the case, the film slows down massively.

Also, I may as well comment on the human side of things, because it's here we ender stupidville. Quaritch and his squad take Spider along as an interpreter, as he refuses to crack under RDA torture, as they hunt for Jake Sully. To do this, they commandeer what's basically a whaling vessel, run by Captain Evil (yes, he has a name, no, I don't care). Captain Evil's favourite things in life are making tulkun quotas, and making money, one following the other, and never failing to remind the others that he's Captain Evil. Things reach their apex when we see a tulkun hunted, where the same music from Home Tree's destruction in the first film plays in the climax. Not only is it a reminder that whoever composed WOW's soundtrack is no James Horner, but it doesn't even work. Home Tree's destruction is tragic on a number of levels, this is just "a whale died, feel sad." Not that it isn't sad in isolation, but the whole "save the whales" metaphor feels so out of place in the 2020s where, despite all the issues facing the oceans, whaling isn't the same issue it once was. Really, even a shark metaphor would work better since millions (even over 100 million) sharks are killed for their fins each year.

Also, remember what I said about the RDA's colonization mission? Well, it turns out that what's paying for the operation is the tulkuns' brain fluid, how it can be used to stop human ageing. So, the rich and powerful want this brain fluid, and are willing to pay top dollar for it, desptie the mission statement being colonization of Pandora? I honestly don't know if this is contradictory, or a ringing inditement on human greed (or capitalism, if you want), but, well, make your decision, I guess. Also, it kind of feels like a wasted opportunity, as Spider is now in the company of his own species, but apart from one scientist guy, the conclusion isn't that humans suck, but rather humans REALLY suck. Which is fine, really, but if you wanted shades of grey in this story, you won't find them here.

There's actually a case where this works better, IMO - far moreso than the tulkun hunt sequence, and that's where the recoms and RDA goons land at a na'vi village (not the sea clan, another sea clan), and start torturing them for info on Jake's whereabouts. Spider has to act as translator, is horrified at what's happening, but all he can do is mitigate the damage (village is burnt down) rather than the worst outcome (e.g. Quaritch threatens to execute one as an example, and the terror in the na'vi's eyes, looking at Spider, pleading for help...yeah). On the "humans suck" angle, I actually think this is far better than the whaling scene, because it's an example of casual human cruelty that you can find any number of parallels to. Also, credit where it's due, the weather in the islands is bright and Sunny when Jake and co. arrive, but by this point, it's constantly overcast. Not subtle, but then, this movie was never trying to be.

Anyway, point is, the bulk of this film is slow, thin on plot, high on spectacle, great on worldbuilding, and morally hackneyed. In other words, it's every criticism of the first film that I never agreed with made manifest in the sequel. But hey, least we've got the climax, right?

Part 4

Part 4 is a bit better, but as far as climaxes go, it's easily weaker than the first, and probably weaker than Cameron's other comparable climaxes as well (T2, Aliens, etc.). Basically, things reach a head when there's a standoff between the whaling ship (by this point, Quaritch has some of Jake's children captive), and the sea clan, plus a tulkun ally. Despite what I said about the climax being weaker than others, it's still a decent action scene. So on that note:

-The layout is interesting, in that you basically have the sea people on plesiosaur-esque creatures going up against gunboats. Plus, you have Quaritch on his ikran vs. Jake on his skimwing, shooting at each other, evading bullets, etc. So kinetically, it's a lot of fun.

-Good grief, the RDA is helpless here. Apart from one main character dying, I don't think a single sea clan member is killed in the entire thing, whereas every goon bar Quaritch is killed, or as good as dead by the end.

-Everyone has pointed this out, but the sea clan just arbitrarily disappears along the way. Um, why?

-Something I haven't seen pointed out, but I think deserves mention, is Neytiri's rampage along the deck. Spoiler alert (but then, all of this is spoilers), the main character who's killed is Neteyam (oh no, he had so much character!), which leads to Neytiri howling as only a beraved mother could (I'm glib, but in seriousness, Saldana's acting here is excellent), and then goes on a full rampage across the boat deck. I bring this up, because it really sells how deadly the na'vi can be (fast, strong, agile), and in the carnage, you see Spider hiding from her, as if he's scared that she'll kill him on sight since he's human, and humans killed her son, and all that). It's not a 1:1 with Predator, but the body count is certainly comparable.

-Events reach a head as Quaritch has the knife to one of Jake's children, while Neytiri has a knife to Spider's neck, and this is the thing that's been discussed. She cuts his skin, but not his neck, and Quaritch agrees to the trade. But even that's not the end as Jake and Quaritch have a 1v1 duel on the sinking ship, while the other characters have to escape. Long story short, everyone makes it out, Spider saves Quaritch, but chooses to stay with his "found family" rather than biological (sort of) one. Also, being fair, the whole drowning/escaping the ship did get me in the feels, and the music here is excellent ("Light and Dark," if you want the OST description, which I've started listening to).

What follows the battle is a bit rushed - for instance, we never see Neytiri and Spider interact over the whole knife-to-throat thing. On the other hand, Neteyam's sea funeral is held, and again, this did get me in the feels, so nice job there. The movie ends with Jake and Neytiri 'jacking in' to the underwater Tree of Souls, to see Neteyam's memory, with Jake coming to the conclusion that he can no longer run, that he/they have to stand and fight...which is a realization he should have had over an hour ago by movie-run time, but meh, callback to the first with his eyes opening as the final shot, only it's a forced reference here.

Conclusion

So, that's The Way of Water for you. I don't know if I can say much more than I have (well, I guess I can, but meh), but at the end of the day, I'm left with the fact that 13 years have passed between films, and a sequel has been made that's inferior to the original in every regard bar visuals and maybe worldbuilding. Even if I reduced the score to 6/10, that doesn't make the movie bad in my book, and no, I don't think this is a bad film. But I do think it's an unnecessary film. I never felt the first film needed a sequel, and the payoff here isn't really enough to justify the running time, plus the wait involved. What's ironic is that for a film called "The Way of Water," the time spent in said water is its weakest element.

But no biggie. All Jake has to do is master earth, fire, and air, and restore balance to the world. :p
 
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thebobmaster

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gorfias

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Avatar: The Way Of Water: Great / Great
Really makes me want to see this. Gotta find time when I can gather the troops and see it at an Imax. Tougher to get these young'en rounded up than scheduling adult time with friends. They've got really busy lives.

The Fabelmans: A'ight / Great

This was a rough watch if only because, like most, I tuned in to see a story about Spielberg, but it's actually more about a family in turmoil.
This movie got trounced at the box office ($9 mil world wide) and this may be why.

From what I hear, this is better compared to "This is 40" than say, "Cinema Paradiso". This is 40 started out amusing enough but turned nasty and felt like I'd been invited to a dinner party, only for my hosts to break out into a red faced spitting mad screaming match right in front of all of their guests. My daughter still wants to see this but I think it can wait for streaming.
 
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Baffle

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The Wraith (1986). *That noise the builder makes when they're about to give you a sickening price*
 
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thebobmaster

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Xprimentyl

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Bones And All: What in every living fuck / Great

A young girl is abandoned by her father after it's revealed she has a penchant for cannibalism stemming from her youth. She finds herself traveling several states to discover she's not alone insofar as her craving goes.

We paid for this disgusting ass fucking movie. Really disturbing. Gross. Not sure what's worse: the fact that the movie depicts these "eaters" as remotely sympathetic, or the graphic depictions of cannibalism, but both literally almost made me sick. I went in expecting horror, and what they gave me was a demented love story. This film really upset me. I couldn't finish it; I turned it off in the final minutes when it was clear they were going balls-out morbid. I can't recommend it for any reason.
 
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Dalisclock

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Avatar: The Way of Water (7/10)

Really, I should give it a 7.8. Had too much water in it.

Snark aside, in actual fact, 7/10 is arguably too generous. Since I'm coming at this film from a place of bias, it's probably worth more of a 6. On the other hand, being as objective as possible, I do think this is a "good," if not great film at the end of the day, but it's a weaker film than the original, and its quality is like that of an inverse bell curve. Strongest at its beginning and end, weakest in its middle, which regrettably, takes up the bulk of the runtime.

So, to review this, I decided that the best way to go about things was to divide the movie into four sections. I'm not saying it's a four-act structure per se, but I think it's the best way to evaluate said movie. Also, going to be major spoilers, so turn back now if you're worried. So on that note:

Part 1

By my estimate, this lasts about 10 minutes, and is devoted to quickly recapping the first film, and summarizing the 14 years that have passed since the end of said film. Basically it's a quick introduction to Jake's family with Neytiri - three biological children (Neteyam, Lo'ak, Tuk), plus one adopted child (Kiri). You can technically throw Spider in as well (a human born not long before the first movie's end, too small to go into a cryo-pod, so he's grown up on Pandora), but he's not really a son per se. I'm going to address the children characters now, and say that for the most part, they're done well. I won't go into all the details, but Kiri and Lo'ak are the most interesting, Neteyam is barely a character at all, and while Tuk isn't much of a character either, she does have the "cute factor" going on, so that's nice. Part of the problem is that it's hard to tell Neteyam and Lo'ak apart from each other physically, at least at the start. But for the most part, the kids are a good bunch - acting is good, dialogue is good, certainly act like family, etc. I'm also going to take the moment to address a common complaint I've seen in that the kid characters often use human slang, such as "bro" or "*****." However, I really don't think that's an issue - they're shown to be fluent in both English and Na'vi, and they've got an ex-marine for a dad, so if anything, I think this adds to their character, especially since Lo'ak and Kiri are marked as outsiders given their five fingers due to their avatar DNA ("demon blood," as some call it).

So, yeah. First section is good, we're allowed to chill. But then the RDA returns in a quick, but very effective sequence. Again, won't go into details, but basically think War of the Worlds albeit human technology is the equivalent of tripods. It's that kind of shock and awe type of arrival that marks the end of part 1, and shows that shit's got real. But, anyway, Part 1 is pretty solid.

Part 2

Part 2 is also solid, and if anything, I'd have preferred Part 2 to be a template for the movie as a whole. I'm going to summarize a lot of information that isn't presented in this order, but it's easier to set the scene in-universe rather than based on plot.

One year has passed since the RDA has returned to Pandora. In that time, they've established a giant city called Bridgehead, building "more in the last year than we did in the last thirty" (as in, the thirty years prior to the events of the first film). While the RDA of the first film was just here to mine unobtanium, this is full-blown colonization (remember that, because the 'mission statement' gets iffy later), with the intent of turning Pandora into a new home for humanity after the natives are "pacified." I might as well say it here, if you're looking for moral ambiguity here, you won't find it. Apart from a single RDA scientist, every RDA-aligned human is an asshole here. I've always maintained (and still do) that the characters in the first film had shades of grey, but Way of Water has no such thing. Na'vi are good, humans are bad. Which, to be clear, I don't think is inherently a bad thing - plenty of alien invasion movies don't bother with grey morals for the invading aliens - but it does make WOW a very black and white story.

Anyway, humans have Bridgehead, but the planet is fighting back. Jake and the Omaticaya have retreated to the Hallelujah Mountains, and have been conducting guerilla warfare against the RDA, which we see at the start of part 2 in one of their convoy raids - destroying RDA gear, retrieving RDA weapons (apparently the na'vi are fine using guns now, though Neytiri sticks with her bow the entire film). I might as well say that the RDA is hilariously incompetent through the movie in a sense - apart from one major character death, I don't think they kill a single na'vi anywhere, their gunships' cockpits can still be penetrated by arrows, and while the Skel suits are cool (think power armour exoskeletons), they're still useless. On another mention, it's noted that pretty much the entire planet's biosphere is fighting against the RDA. That everytime they enter the mountains, they have 10 minutes before the native flora starts attacking them. It's never really stated outright, but it's pretty much established that Eywa herself is fully aware of the threat the humans pose, and is willing to direct her creatures to fight them. Or, more specifically, humans are triggering the planet's "immune response." How you feel about this is up to you, but me, personally, I think it works - it builds on Eywa's 'character development' (so to speak) from the last film, and really helps solidify Pandora as an alien world with its own rules. Like Earth in many respects, but it's a planet operating as a giant super-organism.

To deal with this, the RDA deploys recombinants - basically avatars implanted with the memories of ex-RDA soldiers, including Quaritch, who's assigned to lead the first (and only?) recom squad. In a nice act of parallels, Quaritch's awakening period is like an inversion of Jake's motions in the first film - wakes up in his recom body, but reacts with terror rather than happiness. Lands on Pandora via shuttle, but takes his mask off rather than put it on. Drifts in zero-g, but his movements are less serene, and so on. Subtle touches, but they work. As to whether Quaritch himself works in the film? I'd say "mostly." There's a dichotomy between old!Quaritch and new!Quaritch, and he alternates (as if unable to decide) whether he should consider himself the same man, or a different man who happens to have another person's memories. It's not something that hasn't been done plenty of times in sci-fi, but in this sense, it kinda works. Anyway, the recoms are sent into the mountains on the bet that because of their biology, Eywa's creatures will see them as na'vi, so they can find out where the rebels (sorry, resistance) are hiding out. It's also at this point that I started getting Star Wars vibes. Make of that what you will.

The recoms are inserted, and it turns out that the wildlife does indeed see them as na'vi. They end up treading over old ground (literally) as they reach the site of Jake's final battle with Quaritch in the first film. In a case of fan service that actually serves the plot, we see flashbacks to the fight as seen through the AMP suit's onboard camera, as recom!Quaritch gets to see his old self die, recovering his old self's dog tags, and crushing human!Quaritch's skull. Nothing groundbreaking, but nice stuff. Turns out, however, that the kids have also stumbled into the area and are taken captive, while Jake, Neytiri, and Neteyam move into attack them in something that's part-Vietnam War, part-Predator, under the cover of an eclipse (eclipses happen three times in this film - apparently its fairly common, as Polythemus passes between Pandora and its primary star). What follows is a gun/bow fight under darkness and in the rain, in what's a pretty neat action sequence. Quaritch wants revenge on Jake, Jake and Neytiri are understandably spooked by Quaritch being, y'know, alive, and so on. I've seen a lot of people praising the film's final action scene, and while I agree with those sentiments, I honestly think this might be the best action scene overall. It's tense, it's moody, it's well shot, etc.

Up to this point, I'd call the movie solidly "good." 8/10, 7/10 at the very least. However, it's after this sequence that the movie takes a sharp turn into the deep end. I honestly thought a scene must have been missing, but Jake, spooked by Quaritch, reasons that he and his family have to flee the mountains as Quaritch will never stop hunting them, that because of Spider, the RDA will soon learn the ins and outs of the area. Okay, first point - the RDA was already hunting you before this, Quaritch returning, while spooky, doesn't actually change much. Second, that Spider has been captured puts everyone at risk, not just Jake and his family. If anything, it makes Jake look like a selfish asshole, because he's running with his family, leaving the Omatikaya to continue fighting, despite the fact that they're now more at risk, and by Jake leaving, they've lost their best asset (since as an ex-marine, he knows how to use guerilla tactics, use human weapons, etc.) This is arguably somewhat mitigated by the fact that WOW doesn't really have a single main character (if there is one, I'd argue it's Lo'ak), so Jake being an idiot/coward doesn't derail the plot as much as it would otherwise, but this move is just bizzare to me. It's like Cameron needed an excuse for the Sullys to go island hopping, and didn't think ot out.

Part 3

Part 3 takes up the bulk of the film, and it's my least favourite. The pacing grinds to a halt, and the structure is arguably a form of vinigettes as Jake and his family learn how to live among a na'vi sea clan. I'm going to establish what I actually liked about this section first, so on that note:

1: The visuals are gorgeous. Seriously, this might be the most photo-realistic film I've ever seen. EVER. I honestly thought at some points that the actors must have gone to a real-world archipelego or something, because the sea scenes are simply that gorgeous to look at.

2: If worldbuilding is your bread and butter, you're going to enjoy this part, because it's really the bulk of it. Not only the culture of the sea clan (Mekinaya, or something, I'm going to use "sea clan" for now) fleshed out, but also the tulkuns (basically Pandoran whales), and even the sea clan themselves are interesting from a physiological level, as their biology has adapted to the sea (e.g. thicker tales for swimming). A common trope in sci-fi is the idea of "a race of hats," where an alien species generally has one defining trait, or at best, conforms to a no. of traits. The sea clan certainly has similarities with the Omatikaya (e.g. have their own Tree of Souls, only it's underwater), but also key differences. Say what you will about the na'vi being space elves, they're at least space elves that aren't uniform.

That's really all the good I can say however, because despite the above, the plot really, REALLY slows down at this point. It's not bad, not really, but it's clear that worldbuilding (or spectacle, if you're cynical) has taken precedence over plot at this point. Not necessarily character, in that Lo'ak and Kiri certainly have character development, but whatever the case, the film slows down massively.

Also, I may as well comment on the human side of things, because it's here we ender stupidville. Quaritch and his squad take Spider along as an interpreter, as he refuses to crack under RDA torture, as they hunt for Jake Sully. To do this, they commandeer what's basically a whaling vessel, run by Captain Evil (yes, he has a name, no, I don't care). Captain Evil's favourite things in life are making tulkun quotas, and making money, one following the other, and never failing to remind the others that he's Captain Evil. Things reach their apex when we see a tulkun hunted, where the same music from Home Tree's destruction in the first film plays in the climax. Not only is it a reminder that whoever composed WOW's soundtrack is no James Horner, but it doesn't even work. Home Tree's destruction is tragic on a number of levels, this is just "a whale died, feel sad." Not that it isn't sad in isolation, but the whole "save the whales" metaphor feels so out of place in the 2020s where, despite all the issues facing the oceans, whaling isn't the same issue it once was. Really, even a shark metaphor would work better since millions (even over 100 million) sharks are killed for their fins each year.

Also, remember what I said about the RDA's colonization mission? Well, it turns out that what's paying for the operation is the tulkuns' brain fluid, how it can be used to stop human ageing. So, the rich and powerful want this brain fluid, and are willing to pay top dollar for it, desptie the mission statement being colonization of Pandora? I honestly don't know if this is contradictory, or a ringing inditement on human greed (or capitalism, if you want), but, well, make your decision, I guess. Also, it kind of feels like a wasted opportunity, as Spider is now in the company of his own species, but apart from one scientist guy, the conclusion isn't that humans suck, but rather humans REALLY suck. Which is fine, really, but if you wanted shades of grey in this story, you won't find them here.

There's actually a case where this works better, IMO - far moreso than the tulkun hunt sequence, and that's where the recoms and RDA goons land at a na'vi village (not the sea clan, another sea clan), and start torturing them for info on Jake's whereabouts. Spider has to act as translator, is horrified at what's happening, but all he can do is mitigate the damage (village is burnt down) rather than the worst outcome (e.g. Quaritch threatens to execute one as an example, and the terror in the na'vi's eyes, looking at Spider, pleading for help...yeah). On the "humans suck" angle, I actually think this is far better than the whaling scene, because it's an example of casual human cruelty that you can find any number of parallels to. Also, credit where it's due, the weather in the islands is bright and Sunny when Jake and co. arrive, but by this point, it's constantly overcast. Not subtle, but then, this movie was never trying to be.

Anyway, point is, the bulk of this film is slow, thin on plot, high on spectacle, great on worldbuilding, and morally hackneyed. In other words, it's every criticism of the first film that I never agreed with made manifest in the sequel. But hey, least we've got the climax, right?

Part 4

Part 4 is a bit better, but as far as climaxes go, it's easily weaker than the first, and probably weaker than Cameron's other comparable climaxes as well (T2, Aliens, etc.). Basically, things reach a head when there's a standoff between the whaling ship (by this point, Quaritch has some of Jake's children captive), and the sea clan, plus a tulkun ally. Despite what I said about the climax being weaker than others, it's still a decent action scene. So on that note:

-The layout is interesting, in that you basically have the sea people on plesiosaur-esque creatures going up against gunboats. Plus, you have Quaritch on his ikran vs. Jake on his skimwing, shooting at each other, evading bullets, etc. So kinetically, it's a lot of fun.

-Good grief, the RDA is helpless here. Apart from one main character dying, I don't think a single sea clan member is killed in the entire thing, whereas every goon bar Quaritch is killed, or as good as dead by the end.

-Everyone has pointed this out, but the sea clan just arbitrarily disappears along the way. Um, why?

-Something I haven't seen pointed out, but I think deserves mention, is Neytiri's rampage along the deck. Spoiler alert (but then, all of this is spoilers), the main character who's killed is Neteyam (oh no, he had so much character!), which leads to Neytiri howling as only a beraved mother could (I'm glib, but in seriousness, Saldana's acting here is excellent), and then goes on a full rampage across the boat deck. I bring this up, because it really sells how deadly the na'vi can be (fast, strong, agile), and in the carnage, you see Spider hiding from her, as if he's scared that she'll kill him on sight since he's human, and humans killed her son, and all that). It's not a 1:1 with Predator, but the body count is certainly comparable.

-Events reach a head as Quaritch has the knife to one of Jake's children, while Neytiri has a knife to Spider's neck, and this is the thing that's been discussed. She cuts his skin, but not his neck, and Quaritch agrees to the trade. But even that's not the end as Jake and Quaritch have a 1v1 duel on the sinking ship, while the other characters have to escape. Long story short, everyone makes it out, Spider saves Quaritch, but chooses to stay with his "found family" rather than biological (sort of) one. Also, being fair, the whole drowning/escaping the ship did get me in the feels, and the music here is excellent ("Light and Dark," if you want the OST description, which I've started listening to).

What follows the battle is a bit rushed - for instance, we never see Neytiri and Spider interact over the whole knife-to-throat thing. On the other hand, Neteyam's sea funeral is held, and again, this did get me in the feels, so nice job there. The movie ends with Jake and Neytiri 'jacking in' to the underwater Tree of Souls, to see Neteyam's memory, with Jake coming to the conclusion that he can no longer run, that he/they have to stand and fight...which is a realization he should have had over an hour ago by movie-run time, but meh, callback to the first with his eyes opening as the final shot, only it's a forced reference here.

Conclusion

So, that's The Way of Water for you. I don't know if I can say much more than I have (well, I guess I can, but meh), but at the end of the day, I'm left with the fact that 13 years have passed between films, and a sequel has been made that's inferior to the original in every regard bar visuals and maybe worldbuilding. Even if I reduced the score to 6/10, that doesn't make the movie bad in my book, and no, I don't think this is a bad film. But I do think it's an unnecessary film. I never felt the first film needed a sequel, and the payoff here isn't really enough to justify the running time, plus the wait involved. What's ironic is that for a film called "The Way of Water," the time spent in said water is its weakest element.

But no biggie. All Jake has to do is master earth, fire, and air, and restore balance to the world. :p
Appreciate this. I have no real urge to watch it so the synopsis is good to have.
 
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hanselthecaretaker

My flask is half full
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I could really take or leave Avatar’s story but will end up going at some less busy point for the eye and ear candy since it apparently will not disappoint; especially in IMAX.
 
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thebobmaster

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gorfias

Unrealistic but happy
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Barbarian - (Disney plus, wtf?)
Was wondering what streaming service would pick this surprise indie hit up first. Assumed Shudder would've been a likely culprit, but nooo, for some reason Disney sought to sink its' teeth into this innocent baby first.
HBO Max here in the USA.
Kept me guessing, wondering where this was all going. $4.5 million budget brought in $45 WW.
Good little independent horror movie. Well done. Not an incidental amount of gore. Not for the squeamish.

EDIT: Rolling Stone calls it #3 best horror movie of the year. "X" is #1.
 
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Hawki

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Disney needs to make spinoffs/sequels. I propose terms such as SG-1, Universe, or Infinity. :p
 

thebobmaster

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PsychedelicDiamond

Wild at Heart and weird on top
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The Red Spectacles (1988)

Japanese dystopian comedy, directed by Mamoru Oshii, who is mainly known for his work in animation (Ghost in the Shell, Angels Egg, Patlabor...) but has dabbled in live action productions for a pretty long this, this movie being the first one. It's also technically the first movie in a trilogy, followed by another live action outing called Stray Dog and, most famously, the widely acclaimed OVA Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade.

The fun thing about Red Spectacles, I can sum up the plot for you but it'll not give you much of an idea of what the movie is actually like. Technically, Red Spectacles is about a fugitive ex member of a brutal paramilitary police force returning to his old city to reestablish contact with his two former partners while being pursued by a sinister newly established secret police seeking to capture, torture and kill him for his transgressions against the state. From this synopsis, you're most likely imagining some sort of gritty, hard boiled action thriller. What Red Spectacles is, though, is a jarring mixture of surreal kafkaesque paranoia and broad, slapstick infused farce that resembles nothing so much as Terry Gilliam's orwellian satire Brazil, only on a much lower budget and with a much bigger contempt for conventional plot. And if you have seen Brazil, that should tell you something.

Just taken as a comedy, Red Spectacles landed extremely well for me, simply for how wide of a range it has in wringing humour out of its subject matter. Early on, the protagonist has a beautifully kafkaesque conversation with his taxi driver about how stand and eat noodle bars have been outlawed for being a breeding ground for subversive activity. There is a running gag about diarrhea. At one point, the protagonist is assaulted by a gang of pantomimes.

I think part of what makes Red Spectacles compelling is how it's shot and acted like like a serious dark psychological thriller. Most of it in black and white, stark contrasts and gothic angles, long static shots, there is sort of an expressionist elegance that's deliberately at odds with the often cartoony comedic setpieces it presents. Same for the performance of Shigeru Chiba, who keeps his hard boiled though guy demeanour even when fighting off assailants bare naked.

Make no mistake, Red Spectacles is by any definition an "art" movie. Some of its shots look like they're straight out of Eraserhead. There is philosophy and political commentary in its absurdity. There are plenty of points to be made about the ways it's about PTSD, mass surveillance, abuse of power, immediate und concealed violence, plenty of symbolism to parse about dogs, and cats, and soba noodles but it's wrapped up in a type of surrealism that's concerned with making you laugh slightly more than with making you uncomfortable

Red Spectacles ticks all the boxes for something that should be unapproachable, in being foreign, narratively opaque and mostly filmed in black and white. It's hard to imagine someone who's not a movie nerd coming home after work and saying "Hey, maybe I'll put on this surreal black and white Japanese dystopian movie from the 80's for some entertainment " but at the same time it's genuinely hard to imagine anyone who couldn't get some good laughs out of it. Some of it's comedic beats are just objectively impeccable. Somehow this weird, low budget Japanese Brazil derivative was easily one of the most entertaining things I've seen in a while.
 
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Hawki

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She Said (5/10)

It's...fine?

Really, I can't say much here. It's a movie that documents the NYT investigation of Harvey Weinstein's sexual abuses. That's really about it. Nothing about this movie really stands out for better or worse. Even in this vein of movie, it comes short of stuff like Spotlight or Bombshell. I get that what's being displayed is limited by the need for accuracy, but even so...

Anyway, it's fine.
 

XsjadoBlayde

~it ends here~
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Glass Onion - (Netflix)
It's known this is sequel to Knives Out, but really the only link is Daniel Craig just having fun with his Texan accent for better and worse. This time around though, everyone else is having their share of the melodramatic poise. I did chuckle a few times, including one person's solution to a puzzle being almost a precise reflection of audiences logic of "but why didn't they try that then?" in other films involving intricate puzzles. Is an entertaining time, not requiring any knowledge of the previous film neither. Any criticisms I have are just personal nitpicks that are mostly not a factor towards the film's final quality.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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I'm crawling through Glass Onion right now. Watching Rian Johnson work out his trauma with the imaginary strawmen that hated Last Jedi continues to be hilarious and moderately embarrassing. Knives Out had a little of that too. This is his life now huh?
 
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Bob_McMillan

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I'm crawling through Glass Onion right now. Watching Rian Johnson work out his trauma with the imaginary strawmen that hated Last Jedi continues to be hilarious and moderately embarrassing. Knives Out had a little of that too. This is his life now huh?
Interesting. What was the example in Knives Out?
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Interesting. What was the example in Knives Out?
The little twerp in the private school uniform that everyone in the family keeps describing as a troll and a nazi and a chronic masturbator. He never really does or says anything to that effect (that I recall, he doesn't really do much in the movie at all) but everyone keeps characterizing him that way.

“I’m sure I got a few tweetstorms from that kid,” quips Johnson, admitting that the character of Jacob Thrombey (Jaeden Martell) was inspired by the hateful social-media comments and backlash he received following the release of his hit “Star Wars: The Last Jedi.”
In Glass Onion it's Dave Bautista's turn as an idiotic dudebro MRA streamer who lives with his mom (like everybody who is wrong on the internet!) and decorates the house with Scarface posters. Probably didn't like Last Jedi either.
 
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