Discuss and Rate the Last Thing You Watched (non-movies)

Trunkage

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Ok so to address this in a few point.

  • Enterprise is pre United Federation of Planets. This means pre normal Star Fleet rules etc. Yes it's a dark episode because it's meant to be in a period where humanity was reaching out into the dark for the first time.
  • The non -intervention rules are for pre-warp civilisations , the Romulans were very much post warp.
  • Just because it is against the normal rules doesn't mean people won't do it if they believe it's right to do so
I very much agree with the last point. Eg. It is weird that Picard let it happen and even if the Federation tried to stop him, he would have found an alternative.


Except (correct me if I'm wrong) they never did say the Romulans didn't want help, they said they hadn't officially requested it (because the Federation has literally been their enemy for so long and they're shown as somewhat proud people).
I don't really want to go back and watch it (I dont find the season that good) but I think Picard actually tried to organise a convoy and was stopped. I thought the Federation offered but they were rebuffed by the Romulan government. And... I feel like I remember the Tal Shair deliberately making the government do this so they can turn the Romulans against the Federation

But I would need to rewatch to br confident

True but part of TNG was about how synths should have rights, they actually had multiple episodes on that and yet Picard Season 1 is using them as drone workers. When weirdly in the TNG age they had Engineering pod things that could be used anyway.
No notes here. I literally cannot understand why they were being used as drones. Or why they made synths like they did.


True, however people really took objection to her "Sheer fucking hubris" lecturing of Picard. Like no way is that professional. If she'd let Picard down lightly then people wouldn't have an objection to her but it was the way she did it combine with the fact, this wasn't some asshole admiral gets their comeuppance Star Trek story.
No notes again. I think that same admiral is shot in the third season when Earth was attacked. At least, that Admiral looked the same

It had issues sure but it's far from "We're leaving you to your own devices with no help at all because we can't be bothered anymore" sort of thing.
I took this as the former but will note that the Admiral Fuck from above just gives mixed messages

I maintain 1 person on that team cared deeply for Star Trek, the rest were action show writers who were just sticking the Star Trek name on a generic script they'd written for almost any other Sci-fi show. Season 3 feels like that writer being actually given control of the show.
Well, you can be a lover of Star Trek AND an action writer.... but action writers are generally not good writers. See John Wick. It's bare bones and very troupe. It leans away from complexity to its advantage. I don't think Star Trek can

I will say that Star Trek does need action writers as some of the action sequences of old series are not great and really hamper the experience

This is not meant to sound like it disagrees with your statement
 

Trunkage

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Oh cool, they came back. I dig it.
Lower Decks does a lot of deep cuts and does some very interesting things with those concepts

And sometimes it falls flat on its face. And sometimes they are just call outs for no reason. It's a really mixed bag of rememberries
 

Gordon_4

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Lower Decks does a lot of deep cuts and does some very interesting things with those concepts

And sometimes it falls flat on its face. And sometimes they are just call outs for no reason. It's a really mixed bag of rememberries
Lower Decks as a concept intrigues me greatly and I think more should be done with the idea. However for some reason - probably the Rick and Morty connection via art style - I find the actual series itself to be repellent in some way and aside from clips in other material like when Spacedock reviews the ships of Star Trek as it is wont to do, I've never watched it. All I hope is that everyone who does watch it, loves it.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Lower Decks as a concept intrigues me greatly and I think more should be done with the idea. However for some reason - probably the Rick and Morty connection via art style - I find the actual series itself to be repellent in some way and aside from clips in other material like when Spacedock reviews the ships of Star Trek as it is wont to do, I've never watched it. All I hope is that everyone who does watch it, loves it.
See I like Rick and Morty but found the Lower Decks art style off putting at first.

I do enjoy the show though. I will say Season 1 of Lower Decks is rough (not Picard season 1 rough but still rough).
Season 2 feels like a big improvement.
Season 3 feels like it carries on from where Season 2 got to but feels very much like a holding pattern waiting for something big to go down.


Lower Decks does a lot of deep cuts and does some very interesting things with those concepts

And sometimes it falls flat on its face. And sometimes they are just call outs for no reason. It's a really mixed bag of rememberries
I think Lower decks pulled it's punches a lot in the first season.

The stuff in the show though I'd say mostly fall into a number of categories mostly for the comedy:
  • Remember this episode story trope, yeh lets make a joke about how this kind of thing keeps happening.
  • Sort of gross out humour.
  • Man New Trek is dumb as is Hollywood.
The best episode of Season 1 that showed the true potential of the show was when they did the holodeck movie that was basically a piss take of Hollywood Star Trek films almost in general not merely the JJ Abrams lens flare (that they deliberately go mad with)
 
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Old_Hunter_77

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Man it's so weird that there's all this Star Trek discussion and I just can't even be bothered. That's just how over-flooded and bad I feel Trek has gotten. It's cool to discuss canon and the Prime Directive and all that but I just don't trust that the show creators even care so why should I?
I'm gonna watch the eventual final season of Discovery just to finish it up and because I think they managed to salvage some semblance of an original voice despite themselves but that's it for me, I can't imagine watching any new Trek ever again.

I really could not imagine that one day I'd be more open to new Star Wars than I am new Star Trek but then Picard and Andor happened and here we are *shrugs*

Back to grown-up TV, I finally finished Beef and those last two episodes were nuts. My kind of nuts. Best of show of 2023 thus far.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Citadel Episodes 1-3

(Prime Video)

Tagline: 400 Million to make Kingsmen at home and 200 Million of that was on Priyanka Chopra Jonas's outfit, mostly to develop the technology to keep that 1 button hanging on and closed.

Thoughts:

After a mission goes south an now amnesiac agent trying to recover his memories find out he's a spy and a massive secret villainy network has destroyed his good spy network that has existed in the shadows for years with the aim of trying to prevent wars from happening.............. No this isn't the plot to Kingsmen the Golden Circle but Citadel the new big budget spy series on Prime video.

If it sounds like I'm being nasty to it I'm not really I quite enjoyed it so far for the fact of how stupidly over the top everything feels and how campy it feels. This feels like a CW effects level attempt to do James Bond that seems to be borrowing so heavily from Kingsmen's 2nd film if some-one told me this was meant to be an Amazon series of Statesmen hastily changed due to not being able to get the licence I'd believe you. This feels like Jack Ryan only not taking itself seriously and will more silly gadgets.
 

Hawki

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Man it's so weird that there's all this Star Trek discussion and I just can't even be bothered. That's just how over-flooded and bad I feel Trek has gotten. It's cool to discuss canon and the Prime Directive and all that but I just don't trust that the show creators even care so why should I?
I'm gonna watch the eventual final season of Discovery just to finish it up and because I think they managed to salvage some semblance of an original voice despite themselves but that's it for me, I can't imagine watching any new Trek ever again.

I really could not imagine that one day I'd be more open to new Star Wars than I am new Star Trek but then Picard and Andor happened and here we are *shrugs*
But does the fault in our stars lie in the producers, or ourselves? :p
 

Thaluikhain

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Man it's so weird that there's all this Star Trek discussion and I just can't even be bothered. That's just how over-flooded and bad I feel Trek has gotten. It's cool to discuss canon and the Prime Directive and all that but I just don't trust that the show creators even care so why should I?
I'm gonna watch the eventual final season of Discovery just to finish it up and because I think they managed to salvage some semblance of an original voice despite themselves but that's it for me, I can't imagine watching any new Trek ever again.

I really could not imagine that one day I'd be more open to new Star Wars than I am new Star Trek but then Picard and Andor happened and here we are *shrugs*

Back to grown-up TV, I finally finished Beef and those last two episodes were nuts. My kind of nuts. Best of show of 2023 thus far.
Yeah, I don't care about new Star Trek, or new Star Wars, or new Doctor Who, or new 40k.

Though, I'm waiting for the DVD for Prey to be out at a reasonable price, because I heard that was good, or at least not dreadful. And 40k likes doing made to order for their old stuff, last lost had models from 1993.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Barry Season 4

I still think Barry is one of the best shows out there today but I'm not a massive fan of the final season so far. I *get* but don't love time skips, for one thing. I'd much rather see the show figure out the plot within certain constraints instead of, you know, teleporting its characters across time and space to a point where it's convenient. I also don't like how dark and miserable it's become. But there's only three episodes left so no point bitching about it.
 

Hawki

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That would explain why I've not seen it at JB then.
I used to check JB reguarly - it's clear it's never coming out on DVD in the forseeable future, nor is it even purchasable on YouTube. Chances are it'll be exclusive to Disney + for the forseeable future.

And sure, okay, not the worst thing in the world, but I've got every other Alien and Predator movie on DVD (arranged in chronological order, thank you very much), but alas...
 

Old_Hunter_77

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Barry Season 4

I still think Barry is one of the best shows out there today but I'm not a massive fan of the final season so far. I *get* but don't love time skips, for one thing. I'd much rather see the show figure out the plot within certain constraints instead of, you know, teleporting its characters across time and space to a point where it's convenient. I also don't like how dark and miserable it's become. But there's only three episodes left so no point bitching about it.
I kind of like the time skips, but only when it's the last season. I see your point that it could be kind of a cheat but I don't mind.
Same thing is happening with Marvelous Ms Maisel, and it's getting same mixed reaction, and I am loving both. I dunno, maybe I'm easy to please lol. But I just feel like, hey, it's last season- go nuts.
 

Old_Hunter_77

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Kaleidescope

A Netflix miniseries ostensibly about a heist. Each episode takes place at different times- I think the whole story spans like 20 years or something- and each episode is sort of self-contained. Each is titled after a color, and subtitled with the amount of time before the actual heist (i.e., "Yellow (6 weeks before the heist)." And the last episode is the heist.

The gimmick is that Netflix will play the episodes in a random order for each person, except the last episode which is the actual heist.

Giancarlo Esposito is the biggest star of the cast and in the two episodes (of 8) I've watched so far (Green and Yellow), the biggest character hook is the relationship between him and his daughter.

The show is 100% pulp. I think for the sake of the gimmick, it seems they're relying heavily on tropes, styles, and speed. More than half the show feels like I'm watching one of those montage style sequences from an Oceans movie that shows cool people being cool with crimes and equipment and schemes. And if you think too hard about it it's stupid.

But if you're in the mood for that kind of thing, you could do a lot worse. This is one of those shows that's like eating a bowl of good but not great cereal- why not just finish the bowl, it's quick and easy and pleasant but you won't think about it as soon as it's done.
 

Thaluikhain

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I used to check JB reguarly - it's clear it's never coming out on DVD in the forseeable future, nor is it even purchasable on YouTube. Chances are it'll be exclusive to Disney + for the forseeable future.

And sure, okay, not the worst thing in the world, but I've got every other Alien and Predator movie on DVD (arranged in chronological order, thank you very much), but alas...
Eh, the other day when I was at JB I saw that Lorde's album "Solar Power" was on CD now. Been out for about 2 years on vinyl, now you can get it in a real format. And still for full price, though. Could get Taylor Swift's latest for less than that.

(But yeah, could they bring Prey out on DVD? I'll even let them retroactively get rid of The Predator on DVD. Or anything else. Can't do fairer than that.)
 

Ag3ma

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Citadel S01 E01-03 (Amazon Prime).

Oh, Amazon. How do you manage to spend so much on programmes and end with so little? Citadel is the second-most expensive TV show ever, behind Amazon's Rings Of Power. That it paid for just six 40-minute episodes is staggering, meaning in terms of cost per unit time, probably by far the most expensive. Rings of Power was a misfire: extraordinarily beautiful, but also incredibly dull. (So dull that I never even finished the season, despite that it should have been squarely in my interest zone.) Citadel's problem is apparently troubled production history, which means millions wasted in extended gestation, re-writes, re-shoots, etc. The end product is...well, let's just say it's lacking on value for money.

Richard Madden and Priyanka Chopra play as top spies Mason Kane and Nadia Sinh respectively, operatives of "Citadel", the best spy agency ever, which apparently is a private operation funded by rich people for justice and good and saving the world. Stanley Tucci plays the tech whizz. Citadel square off against an evil super-agency called Manticore. Obviously, this is perhaps pitched squarely around James Bond level: lavish HQs and lairs, tech gizmos, fist-, knife and gunfights by athletic heroes against the bad guys - however perhaps a more 80s Bond, where the tech got a little hyper. Or more realistically, perhaps, a Bond setting with leanings towards the modern superhero canon (e.g. Agents of SHIELD).

You know what you're getting, and you get it. It's not clever, it's not original, but it's a decent base for a series. Madden, Chopra, Tucci et al. do their jobs fine, the script is fine, the direction mostly fine, overall it's mostly fun, but... unfortunately, it also has problems.

40 minutes per episode I found too short, and there will only only six episodes in season 1. A lot could be done in that time, but not when large amounts of time is diverted by fight scenes, exposition, and the required level of spy hijinx plot reveals: it lacks depth. It is horribly over-CGIed: far too much of this looks fake, and there's a lot to be said for real sets and locations. Finally, it's got that hateful fast-cutting fight scene style. The sort where you don't really know what's going on because you're seeing two minutes of 400 fraction-of-a-second cuts from different angles. This creates an illusion of pace and excitement, but as far as I'm concerned just an illusion: I suspect when directors don't have any faith in their fight co-ordinators and stunt/acting teams to make it look good without. Also, DO NOT PUT PREVIEWS OF THE NEXT EPISODE AT THE END. Why ruin the cliffhanger you just set up by giving it away 90 seconds later?

So, Citadel. I'm going to say it's okay. Citadel season 2 has already been greenlit despite this underwhelming start: a major reason they may have persisted is because it's planned as part of a whole universe with spin-offs in other countries intended, and perhaps they weren't willing to ditch it so early. I'm fine with it continuing, because I think it's worth giving the producers a shot at creating their vision unencumbered by the apparent fustercluck that occurred during season 1's development. It could turn out well.
 
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Old_Hunter_77

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Citadel S01 E01-03 (Amazon Prime).

Oh, Amazon. How do you manage to spend so much on programmes and end with so little? Citadel is the second-most expensive TV show ever, behind Amazon's Rings Of Power. That it paid for just six 40-minute episodes is staggering, meaning in terms of cost per unit time, probably by far the most expensive. Rings of Power was a misfire: extraordinarily beautiful, but also incredibly dull. (So dull that I never even finished the season, despite that it should have been squarely in my interest zone.) Citadel's problem is apparently troubled production history, which means millions wasted in extended gestation, re-writes, re-shoots, etc. The end product is...well, let's just say it's lacking on value for money.

Richard Madden and Priyanka Chopra play as top spies Mason Kane and Nadia Sinh respectively, operatives of "Citadel", the best spy agency ever, which apparently is a private operation funded by rich people for justice and good and saving the world. Stanley Tucci plays the tech whizz. Citadel square off against an evil super-agency called Manticore. Obviously, this is perhaps pitched squarely around James Bond level: lavish HQs and lairs, tech gizmos, fist-, knife and gunfights by athletic heroes against the bad guys - however perhaps a more 80s Bond, where the tech got a little hyper. Or more realistically, perhaps, a Bond setting with leanings towards the modern superhero canon (e.g. Agents of SHIELD).

You know what you're getting, and you get it. It's not clever, it's not original, but it's a decent base for a series. Madden, Chopra, Tucci et al. do their jobs fine, the script is fine, the direction mostly fine, overall it's mostly fun, but... unfortunately, it also has problems.

40 minutes per episode I found too short, and there will only only six episodes in season 1. A lot could be done in that time, but not when large amounts of time is diverted by fight scenes, exposition, and the required level of spy hijinx plot reveals: it lacks depth. It is horribly over-CGIed: far too much of this looks fake, and there's a lot to be said for real sets and locations. Finally, it's got that hateful fast-cutting fight scene style. The sort where you don't really know what's going on because you're seeing two minutes of 400 fraction-of-a-second cuts from different angles. This creates an illusion of pace and excitement, but as far as I'm concerned just an illusion: I suspect when directors don't have any faith in their fight co-ordinators and stunt/acting teams to make it look good without. Also, DO NOT PUT PREVIEWS OF THE NEXT EPISODE AT THE END. Why ruin the cliffhanger you just set up by giving it away 90 seconds later?

So, Citadel. I'm going to say it's okay. Citadel season 2 has already been greenlit despite this underwhelming start: a major reason they may have persisted is because it's planned as part of a whole universe with spin-offs in other countries intended, and perhaps they weren't willing to ditch it so early. I'm fine with it continuing, because I think it's worth giving the producers a shot at creating their vision unencumbered by the apparent fustercluck that occurred during season 1's development. It could turn out well.
Apparently the plan is to make versions of this in India and Italy and have them all be connected or something. So it's as much a branding exercise as a show.
Darren Mooney has an article about it on this site and here's Polygon's hilarious take down: https://www.polygon.com/reviews/23700740/citadel-prime-video-review
 
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Ag3ma

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Apparently the plan is to make versions of this in India and Italy and have them all be connected or something. So it's as much a branding exercise as a show.
Darren Mooney has an article about it on this site and here's Polygon's hilarious take down: https://www.polygon.com/reviews/23700740/citadel-prime-video-review
Maybe.

After all, one could equally argue that "Iron Man" (2008) was a branding exercise for the Marvel Cinematic Universe. The difference is that Iron Man was a fully formed and functional film in its own right whereas Citadel season 1 is a botch-job. This quality deficit exposes the role of Citadel as a branding exercise to much greater scrutiny, although the intent is hardly any less cynical.
 
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