Discuss and Rate the Last Thing You Watched (non-movies)

[Xprimentyl]

I rewatched one of my favourite Star Trek TNG episodes, “Measure of a Man”. Otherwise known as one of many episodes where Starfleet’s left hand never spoke to its right in regards to Lt. Cdr Data.

The subject is unsubtle, the legal proceedings probably the subject of many a drinking game with lawyers, philosophers or naval administrators. But goddamn if it pulls it off. One of the best episodes in the still shaky second season. Rivalled only by “The Offspring”, and that episode tears my heart out every time.

Yes, that episode is great. Even knowing what's going to happen, I can't help but feel for Data as he can't feel for himself even though he has a strong opinion on the matter of the objectivity of his "life." The scene where Riker takes off Data's hand... ugh. Knowing he was doing it to his friend in a bid to, against his own will, convince a judge of Data's lack of personhood is just brutal.

Still, it always begs the question, at what point was he ever Starfleet's property that they could even consider him such to do with what they wished? I mean, he wasn't sold or given to them as far as I know. Ostensibly, he joined as willingly as all the other sentient beings; he could simply have quit at the thought of being studied like a frog in a high school science class.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

Stranger Things, season 4: volume 1

Caught up on the latest batch. It's ok, you know, if you already like it you should like it.
I am a bit bewildered by the choice to make 7 episodes that are 60 - 100 minutes each instead of more normal length episodes- it's not as if each episode has some theme or conclusion, it's a serial show. Maybe the creators just wanted to indulge in movie-making.

Least favorite part of the season is going back to relying on the device of separating the characters, especially Eleven, like they did with Will previously.
Best part is the introduction of D&D panic, the classic 80's jock assholes and Eddie.

Of course I am enjoying the Kate Bush props, she is an all-time favorite artist of mine.

 

[gorfias]

Personally I just can't handle that stuff. Dumb decisions are fine to an extent, when its intune with a character, but I can't handle when miscommunication is completely realistic. "Why you doing this!?" "I have my reasons!". shit like that is inexcusable and kills immersion in the story for me.

I'm sad to write that it really didn't hold up. As it went along episodes were filled with filler. One could think they were watching a CW story.
And then, there was just a lot of... well... BS.
Early on there was a ton of fun, internal logic to it. By the end? You just have to go with it.
One good thing to write,

Spoiler

The last 2 seasons ended with some terrific of a cliff hangers. This season? I think they can just find this series is over.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

So, Kenobi. So I saw this comment by someone and am just going to quote them.

"Imagine a story of a world war II “hero” whose Jewish parents were killed in the Holocaust. In order to avenge her dead parents, she managed to commit even more holocaust against the Jews in order to get to Hitler, while never missed an opportunity to blame everything on Douglas MacArthur for not saving her even though he was too busy fighting the Japanese in a totally different continent. Yeah, that’s Reva’s story. "

 

[Bob_McMillan]

So, Kenobi. So I saw this comment by someone and am just going to quote them.

"Imagine a story of a world war II “hero” whose Jewish parents were killed in the Holocaust. In order to avenge her dead parents, she managed to commit even more holocaust against the Jews in order to get to Hitler, while never missed an opportunity to blame everything on Douglas MacArthur for not saving her even though he was too busy fighting the Japanese in a totally different continent. Yeah, that’s Reva’s story. "

To be fair, this analogy only works if the Jews were also really fucking incompetent and essentially kidnapped children to be groomed as soldiers. There's some GREAT setup here for Reva as a character.

But capitalizing on that would take, you know, effort. Care. Just a general sense of giving a shit about what you're doing. Clearly, such expectations were too high for these writers.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

To be fair, this analogy only works if the Jews were also really fucking incompetent and essentially kidnapped children to be groomed as soldiers. There's some GREAT setup here for Reva as a character.

But capitalizing on that would take, you know, effort. Care. Just a general sense of giving a shit about what you're doing. Clearly, such expectations were too high for these writers.

I guess I'm still just stunned at HOW bad the show is. I don't believe money can truly buy talent, but it feels like the pitfalls so many of these huge budget shows keep falling into are things someone who's never written anything before would create or someone has to be intentionally sabotaging themselves.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I guess I'm still just stunned at HOW bad the show is. I don't believe money can truly buy talent, but it feels like the pitfalls so many of these huge budget shows keep falling into are things someone who's never written anything before would create or someone has to be intentionally sabotaging themselves.

Yeah, it seems that you can buy great special effects, actors, and time to get everything shot in great locations, but you can't buy decent scriptwriters easily.

Mind you, in the 30s, you could buy great stuntpeople (cause people would risk their health during the Depression, I guess), but you couldn't buy decent scriptwriters easily then either.

 

[Agema]

Yeah, it seems that you can buy great special effects, actors, and time to get everything shot in great locations, but you can't buy decent scriptwriters easily.

I think it's a bit that scriptwriters are around the bottom of the Hollywood power structure. There was that little period around the 90s with, oh god what was his name? Esterhasz? where there was a fad for throwing money at scriptwriters and hyping films off them, before they were carefully stuffed back in their little box. Institutionally, they tend to be relatively poorly paid, respected, and have little power. So there's no shortage of people who don't really give a shit whether the scriptwriter's any use, and even the scriptwriter is, there are a lot of people who think they know better and will just have what they want re-written.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

I think it's a bit that scriptwriters are around the bottom of the Hollywood power structure. There was that little period around the 90s with, oh god what was his name? Esterhasz? where there was a fad for throwing money at scriptwriters and hyping films off them, before they were carefully stuffed back in their little box. Institutionally, they tend to be relatively poorly paid, respected, and have little power. So there's no shortage of people who don't really give a shit whether the scriptwriter's any use, and even the scriptwriter is, there are a lot of people who think they know better and will just have what they want re-written.

Perhaps it's because the director is the one with say on how things turn out and can override a writer if they make something they don't like so good writers drop out of movies?

 

[09philj]

The Wire (Season 1)

I mean, what more needs to be said? It's the fucking Wire. It's brilliant. It's got a great cast, and despite how many characters there are you get to spend time with all of them and get into what makes them tick and really feel like you're inhabiting their world. It strikes an amazing balance of tones where it's both deeply bleak yet often sharp and funny. I'm so pleased I have four more seasons of this to watch.

 

[Piscian]

I was planning to do one of my deep dives on what might have caused Obi-wan to suck so much ass, but it's really complicated and I'm not sure I have the enthusiasm to write it all out. The problem is that its a real strange...mixed bag.

The show was primarily written by a bunch of talentless assholes and ...the guy who wrote all the good Pixar movies? The cinematography was done by... The guy who did the original "Oldboy"??? the F?. I'm not sure how the pixar guy fits in, but he's only minorly credited. Edits I would guess. the rest of the writers are literal nobodies with imdb credits about as long as my thumb. I should also note its never a good sign when you have like 5 writers on a show thats only 6 episodes unless its anthology. Mandalorian was almost entirely written by jon favreau over 24 episodes which is kind of extreme in the opposite direction, but you get the idea. Too many cooks in the kitchen.

The Director appears to be a hollywood journeymen. Like you read her credits she directs like one random episode of a random TV show a year and thats it. She directed that TV show "Reign" which came and went. It doesn't shout "Hey shes perfect for Obiwan!"

So what does that mean? I'm not really sure. I've always wondered who these directors are that never consistently direct anything. My guess is she's probably somebody high-ups assistant/friend and was groomed for this kind of thing like her friends or agent gets her director roles for episodes that need a standin until she works her way up. I'm guessing here. I've seen this a lot in hollywood, but I've never gotten any insider info on these types of careers. Look up "Jon Peters" some time.

The special effects and stunt choreography were pretty big teams. I will note IMDB doesn't list a "fight choreographer" which is strange, but maybe they didn't think they needed one? For example Nick Gillard was the fight choreographer on Phantom Menace.

Essentially, the show was written and directed by journeymen players and there wasn't a "helmer". For example Mandalorian was entirely created, produced and written by Jon Favreau with minor assistance. Dave Filoni was the executive producer on Mando, he was not in involved in Obi-wan which is strange considering his role at Disney. The main producer on Obi-wan was Katterli Frauenfelder, who produced every movie of Tim Burtons that no one likes. Im not kidding, its literally the really bad ones. Look it up.

sooo...shit show - written, produced and directed by..who gives a fuck? Anyway thats why its sucks, you're welcome.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

The Director appears to be a hollywood journeymen. Like you read her credits she directs like one random episode of a random TV show a year and thats it. She directed that TV show "Reign" which came and went. It doesn't shout "Hey shes perfect for Obiwan!"

She did direct two fairly decent episodes of The Mandalorian though, so she wasn't a TOTALLY random choice. But yeah, didn't really get why everyone was so excited about her directing, I'd never heard of her before.

 

[thebobmaster]

Watched Obi-Wan Kenobi, I personally overall liked it. There were definitely some issues with the script, and Reva was not very well-written, with a rather unsatisfying conclusion to her character arc, but I enjoyed the chemistry between young Leia and Obi-Wan, and thought they did a really good job at getting an actor who came off as a 10 year old Carrie Fisher Leia, not just a generic 10 year old girl. While some of the Darth Vader lines made me cringe ("You've regained your strength, but the weakness is still there...which is why you will always lose!" immediately made me think of "Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb!" from Spaceballs), but he was enough of a physical threat to make up for some of those lines, and I personally really liked the final speech between him and Obi-Wan, where Darth Vader's mask was smashed so we got Hayden's voice overlaid with James Earl Jones'. Really cool audioization of the idea that Anakin was truly gone.

 

[Agema]

Perhaps it's because the director is the one with say on how things turn out and can override a writer if they make something they don't like so good writers drop out of movies?

Not just the director: the studio (which can also overrule the director), and many actors...

I suspect good writers just don't work so much in movies at all: they mostly write books, plays, or even TV, where the script is much more important. After that, there are lots of elements to a movie that can compensate for a bad script, enough that the end product can overall be a well-received film. If scripts are not such a big part of a good end product, they will naturally not be of the highest consideration and scriptwriters therefore relatively little regarded.

Put it this way: there's a claim that someone like Tom Cruise reliably adds tens, if not over a hundred million in global box office receipts for a film just by turning up as lead, pretty much independent of the quality of the film. Can anyone say that of a scriptwriter? Probably not.

 

[SckizoBoy]

Das Boot (2018), seasons 2 & 3

Season 2 felt really slow for some reason, but it dealt with more heavy stuff, albeit with a very modern lens, in one case more than the other, but still. Season 3 came off as a fair swing in genre at times thanks to the displaced cloak and dagger narrative. But I enjoyed it, nonetheless. Buchner's character development was good, if a bit abrupt at times, but such situations are very sink or swim and it's conveyed pretty well, IMO. Same with the Sewer Rats.

Props overall to Tom Wlaschiha, excellent performance, even though Forster's characterisation was a bit too convenient at times (I'll miss him now he's been killed off). Also to Franz Dinda, 'cos Ehrenberg goes through quite a lot in the three seasons thus far. Mixed feelings about Rick Okon, well acted, not very well written, which is a pity, since his activities are pretty much central to the overarching plot of the series.

 

[Agema]

The Director appears to be a hollywood journeymen. Like you read her credits she directs like one random episode of a random TV show a year and thats it. She directed that TV show "Reign" which came and went. It doesn't shout "Hey shes perfect for Obiwan!"

Whoa there! That is not fair.

According to IMDB, in the last five years she has directed episodes of: The Mandalorian, American Gods, The Man In The High Castle, Better Call Saul, Snowfall, Jessica James and Fear The Walking Dead.

Most of those are "premium" TV: high profile, high production values, with great studio expectations for reviews and viewership in the steaming/cable world rather than network TV. They are also very much appropriate prep to direct Obi-wan, most being high budget SF. I'd also question whether you can call her a "journeyman" with a career of ten years TV directing behind her, half in the aforementioned shows. She might not be the most seasoned pro, but I really struggle to see that her previous work history (on paper at least) doesn't justify her appointment to Obi-wan.

 

[Piscian]

Whoa there! That is not fair.

According to IMDB, in the last five years she has directed episodes of: The Mandalorian, American Gods, The Man In The High Castle, Better Call Saul, Snowfall, Jessica James and Fear The Walking Dead.

Most of those are "premium" TV: high profile, high production values, with great studio expectations for reviews and viewership in the steaming/cable world rather than network TV. They are also very much appropriate prep to direct Obi-wan, most being high budget SF. I'd also question whether you can call her a "journeyman" with a career of ten years TV directing behind her, half in the aforementioned shows. She might not be the most seasoned pro, but I really struggle to see that her previous work history (on paper at least) doesn't justify her appointment to Obi-wan.

yeah but thats problem. How many episodes did she direct? You notice the trend? If shes so great why is it she did like one episode of one show a year?

 

[Agema]

yeah but thats problem. How many episodes did she direct? You notice the trend? If shes so great why is it she did like one episode of one show a year?

Because that's normal. Series of this sort frequently have a different director per episode, and a lot of directors who work at that level do just one or a small handful of TV episodes a year.

I don't know why, but my guess is that when you consider that a 45 minute TV episode is about half a film, that means there's a huge amount of work: the shoot itself plus lots of weeks more of preparation, editing etc. which the director has to oversee. Two-three months' work per episode, maybe? So the season needs to be broken up across directors, who work in parallel, with the cast and crew passed from one director to another when it's their turn to shoot. Likewise, due to the time required, directors simply can't do that many episodes per year normally - plus presumably having to compete against all the other directors for limited opportunities and scheduling clashes with other projects.

Chow could probably do the entire season for Obi-Wan because it's got few enough episodes to be manageable for a single director, plus perhaps some other organisational support.

 

[SckizoBoy]

So, got around to watching Obi-Wan Kenobi and... all I can say is that apart from the unreasonably precocious performance from Leia's actress, it was an eminently forgettable series. Colour me thoroughly 'whelmed'.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

I'm trying to get past episode 2 of Ms. Marvel and the dipshit duo from the Department of Damage Control are straight up insufferable. Between the cringe teenage romance stuff and that, I'm finding it really hard to not just fast forward the whole thing.

EDIT: I will say though, they're at least putting more effort into making this show than other Disney+ offerings.