I'm referring to people who specifically say it will make them bitter to continue being friends, as mentioned in the OP.EvilRoy said:
As someone who hangs out with his ex, I can't imagine that being healthy.
Ditching someone who friend zones you (Edited)
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As someone who hangs out with his ex, I can't imagine that being healthy.
For me it really depends on the situation.
If I got "friend zoned" because I never got up the nerve to ask her out, I can accept that's my own fault and continue being friends.
If I ask a girl out and she says, "No, but we can be friends" it may sting a little, but I can be friends. I did my part by asking her out, she did her part by giving an honest answer and I can accept it and move on.
If I ask a girl out and she says maybe or yes, knowing she isn't actually interested and leaving me to figure it out on my own, I can't be friends with her. I always prefer a hard truth over a happy lie, and trying to spare my feelings just hurts me more in the long run than a simple no ever could. Sadly, most of the girls I've asked out fell into this category and I'm quite bitter about it. This is the biggest reason I'm afraid to ask women out. I can handle rejection, but false hope is not something I take lightly.
If I got "friend zoned" because I never got up the nerve to ask her out, I can accept that's my own fault and continue being friends.
If I ask a girl out and she says, "No, but we can be friends" it may sting a little, but I can be friends. I did my part by asking her out, she did her part by giving an honest answer and I can accept it and move on.
If I ask a girl out and she says maybe or yes, knowing she isn't actually interested and leaving me to figure it out on my own, I can't be friends with her. I always prefer a hard truth over a happy lie, and trying to spare my feelings just hurts me more in the long run than a simple no ever could. Sadly, most of the girls I've asked out fell into this category and I'm quite bitter about it. This is the biggest reason I'm afraid to ask women out. I can handle rejection, but false hope is not something I take lightly.
There are still people who seem to think it's about sex. Maybe for some people it is but usually when people complain about not having any sex, it's because no-one will have sex with them, not just because one individual won't. They might talk about how they are always being friend zoned or something along those lines.
What I think most people mean when they say that they have been friend zoned (it's what it's always meant between me and my acquaintances anyway), is that you feel romantic feelings towards a friend who doesn't feel the same way. There is a specific target of their affections, someone they develop strong feelings for that go beyond feelings of lust. They may be already having sex in a FWB situation as I was and so fulfilling their physical desires, but want a deeper emotional connection that you can't get from just sex. That desire to connect with a particular person in a deep way that goes beyond friendship is, to me anyway, much stronger than lust. If I have a friend I'd quite like to have sex with who doesn't want to have sex with me, which has happened relatively often, that's fine, it might be a little ego bruising but I get over it, there will be other chances for sex. When you fall for someone head over heels, someone you're just desperate to spend time with because you love their company, someone you'd willingly not have sex with if you thought it might damage your relationship, and they don't feel the same about you, they just want to be friends, that's the friend zone. And it hurts. Unlike being denied sex, where there are plenty of other potential options, there is no one else who makes you feel that way. And this feeling can only develop between friends, because you can only develop feelings that strong about someone you know well and spend plenty of time with. And sometimes, spending more time with that person just makes the feelings stronger and the only way to get over it is to distance yourself from the person for a time.
Are there really lots of people out there who have relationships based purely on sex? Have the people who think it's all about sex never been in love, never had the feeling of missing someone so much it makes them feel sick, never had someone they could just talk to all day about nothing and then cuddle up and watch a movie and not have sex and it be the most awesome day ever?
(I may feel so strongly about this because I'm missing my fiancée who lives half way across the world from me at the moment and we left each other a couple of weeks ago. If our relationship was only about sex, we wouldn't be able to cope with only seeing each other 6 weeks in a year, 5 months apart. We had sex before we even knew each other very well. It wasn't until we really got to know each other that we started feeling strongly for one another. And when her visa ran out, I friend zoned her because I couldn't see myself in an LDR. We still saw each other semi-regularly for a bit and were still having sex. Again, the friend zoning had nothing to do with her desire for sex. She's getting just as little sex now and she's definitely not in the friend zone. Then a couple of years later I came to my senses and now we're together).
TLDR: I think for most people, and definitely for me, the feeling of rejection you get when your rejected sex sucks but is no big deal. That isn't the friend zone. The friend zone is when you fall for a good friend and they reject you. Call it unrequited love if you prefer but it's the same thing.
What I think most people mean when they say that they have been friend zoned (it's what it's always meant between me and my acquaintances anyway), is that you feel romantic feelings towards a friend who doesn't feel the same way. There is a specific target of their affections, someone they develop strong feelings for that go beyond feelings of lust. They may be already having sex in a FWB situation as I was and so fulfilling their physical desires, but want a deeper emotional connection that you can't get from just sex. That desire to connect with a particular person in a deep way that goes beyond friendship is, to me anyway, much stronger than lust. If I have a friend I'd quite like to have sex with who doesn't want to have sex with me, which has happened relatively often, that's fine, it might be a little ego bruising but I get over it, there will be other chances for sex. When you fall for someone head over heels, someone you're just desperate to spend time with because you love their company, someone you'd willingly not have sex with if you thought it might damage your relationship, and they don't feel the same about you, they just want to be friends, that's the friend zone. And it hurts. Unlike being denied sex, where there are plenty of other potential options, there is no one else who makes you feel that way. And this feeling can only develop between friends, because you can only develop feelings that strong about someone you know well and spend plenty of time with. And sometimes, spending more time with that person just makes the feelings stronger and the only way to get over it is to distance yourself from the person for a time.
Are there really lots of people out there who have relationships based purely on sex? Have the people who think it's all about sex never been in love, never had the feeling of missing someone so much it makes them feel sick, never had someone they could just talk to all day about nothing and then cuddle up and watch a movie and not have sex and it be the most awesome day ever?
(I may feel so strongly about this because I'm missing my fiancée who lives half way across the world from me at the moment and we left each other a couple of weeks ago. If our relationship was only about sex, we wouldn't be able to cope with only seeing each other 6 weeks in a year, 5 months apart. We had sex before we even knew each other very well. It wasn't until we really got to know each other that we started feeling strongly for one another. And when her visa ran out, I friend zoned her because I couldn't see myself in an LDR. We still saw each other semi-regularly for a bit and were still having sex. Again, the friend zoning had nothing to do with her desire for sex. She's getting just as little sex now and she's definitely not in the friend zone. Then a couple of years later I came to my senses and now we're together).
TLDR: I think for most people, and definitely for me, the feeling of rejection you get when your rejected sex sucks but is no big deal. That isn't the friend zone. The friend zone is when you fall for a good friend and they reject you. Call it unrequited love if you prefer but it's the same thing.
Ah, that's fair. I thought you were speaking in general - although I might argue that while becoming bitter is probably the least mature response I can imagine, choosing not to be around the person because you are aware of your own failings is a significant step up.lacktheknack said:
I'm genuinely confused as to these reactions.lacktheknack said:
I mean is that all there is to you to romantic relationships? Porking one another? I assume not, but that just leaves a rather frightening lack of empathy as the only explanation I can think of for this attitude.
You've never, nor can you ever imagine, genuinely liking someone, not to pork them but to you know, be with them. Gotten into a friendly relation with them where you're spending time comfortably together. And then getting rejected and just having things change, not feeling comfortable together anymore, still feeling strongly attracted to him/her even though you know you shouldn't, finding yourself unable to move on because every time you spend time together you're just falling in love again.
None of that make any sense? The only reason you can think of why someone would break off a friendship after getting rejected is that "I never particularly liked you, I just wanted to have sex."
Really?
1. I've never, ever seen someone who genuinely wanted the relationship complain about "being friendzoned". That's why I played up the porking.Hagi said:
2. Nope, I can't relate. My whole two attempts at sparking something have 1. failed spectacularly, and 2. resulted in a lovely, sexless three-month relationship that split amicably and we're still friends. Both of these left me unshattered, untorn, and comfortable.
I'm unable to understand why people cannot repress their romantic feelings. It's what I do. If you repress them enough, they die and life goes on. I thought that's how people eventually "get over" failed relationships.
They do.lacktheknack said:
It's just that for many that includes taking distance from the one who sparked said feelings. Effectively ditching them, often ending the friendship entirely. Staying friends with someone at the expense of your own feelings and happiness I'd say is about as unhealthy as getting into a relationship with someone at the expense of yourself as the strawman "nice guy" seems to expect.
As for your #1, that's just blatantly false. Why do you think the whole friendzone thing even exists? Because people are a tad annoyed they didn't get to have sex? Of course not. It's because they genuinely wanted the relationship. They really, really, really wanted to be together to the point of it in all likelihood ending up a disastrously unhealthy relationship if it ever did start.
I guess I just don't understand this entire vilification of the friendzone. The reality in the majority of cases, something born out of desperation and inexperience, seems quite bad enough without trying to imply it's sheer malevolence.
Women make too many distinctions between "friend" and "lover", forgetting most guys do not want this.
I was lead on for a LOOOOOONG time before she finally flat out told me she wasn't interested. I wasted my time, she took advantage of my kindness, and left me an injured person. While we are taught not to put women on a pedestal many women ENFORCE that pedestal because it elevates them above their own equal status. It's a form of superiority that isn't addressed. They act seductive, use flirtatious methods to lead you on, drop random hints... and in general care less about how you feel.
God forbid we live in a generation where a personality, intelligence, morals, ethics, and decency are valued above the status of trying to obtain someone way out of your league. The equal to equal ratio between what men can obtain and what men obtain is severely unequal. Western society empowers women to step outside of their gender for the sake of power.
I stopped caring a long time ago. Putting yourself out there in a positive way is no longer considered the right thing to do. Women have been taught to seek power, not respect and love.
OT: Leave her be and don't psychologically damage yourself from years of frustration, humiliation, negativity, and pain. Some people, regardless of how moral of a human being you are, simply do not hold "doing the right thing" and consider it a weakness in these times.
Ditch the person. A relationship is a two way street.
I was lead on for a LOOOOOONG time before she finally flat out told me she wasn't interested. I wasted my time, she took advantage of my kindness, and left me an injured person. While we are taught not to put women on a pedestal many women ENFORCE that pedestal because it elevates them above their own equal status. It's a form of superiority that isn't addressed. They act seductive, use flirtatious methods to lead you on, drop random hints... and in general care less about how you feel.
God forbid we live in a generation where a personality, intelligence, morals, ethics, and decency are valued above the status of trying to obtain someone way out of your league. The equal to equal ratio between what men can obtain and what men obtain is severely unequal. Western society empowers women to step outside of their gender for the sake of power.
I stopped caring a long time ago. Putting yourself out there in a positive way is no longer considered the right thing to do. Women have been taught to seek power, not respect and love.
OT: Leave her be and don't psychologically damage yourself from years of frustration, humiliation, negativity, and pain. Some people, regardless of how moral of a human being you are, simply do not hold "doing the right thing" and consider it a weakness in these times.
Ditch the person. A relationship is a two way street.
If you want to have sex with someone who thinks you're her friend, and you stop being friends with her because she won't have sex with you, doesn't that make you kind of a dick?
I'm honestly asking, I've never really understood social behavior.
I'm honestly asking, I've never really understood social behavior.
I haven't a clue either but I'd say it's a dick move. The fact that you can't have sex with someone shouldn't be a reason to terminate a friendship. In reality you can't have sex with most of your friends(because of many variables, in a relationship, not gay/straight whatever), so why should that kind of situation be different. It is unfair though to stay friends and continue your pursuit.Phil the Nervous said:
Also these threads are boring now, they always end the same way, bitching and bans. It's not funny anymore(I just want to post husker du, ok):
Can't respond to thread with actual advice.
I'm in love with 2 women.
I've been friendzoned by one for 10 years and can't fathom ever not loving her or not having her as a friend, so I'll just live my life loving her more than I can tell her.
I WASN'T friendzoned by the other, and in fact we mutually love each other...but she was already in a relationship by the time we evolved beyond just being friends....and now she's married.
So,
The friendzone sucks.
The NON-friendzone sucks too.
Actual love is worth any amount of suckiness, in my book. But then I'm relentless, steady as a mountain, and can only change how I approach the things I hold as truths at a glacial pace...if at all....so me sticking it out isn't even really a choice.
I could not talk to them for years, but I'd still love them all the same. I'd never NOT be aware of it.
*shrug*
I'm in love with 2 women.
I've been friendzoned by one for 10 years and can't fathom ever not loving her or not having her as a friend, so I'll just live my life loving her more than I can tell her.
I WASN'T friendzoned by the other, and in fact we mutually love each other...but she was already in a relationship by the time we evolved beyond just being friends....and now she's married.
So,
The friendzone sucks.
The NON-friendzone sucks too.
Actual love is worth any amount of suckiness, in my book. But then I'm relentless, steady as a mountain, and can only change how I approach the things I hold as truths at a glacial pace...if at all....so me sticking it out isn't even really a choice.
I could not talk to them for years, but I'd still love them all the same. I'd never NOT be aware of it.
*shrug*
how do you know she was "leading you on" instead of thinking you were her freind? did you make it clear at ANY point that you wated more? she DID actually tell you she wasn't interested..how does that put her in the wrong? if being with her in a platonic way was "a waste of time" why did you like her in the first place?Quickman said:
[quote/]God forbid we live in a generation where a personality, intelligence, morals, ethics, and decency are valued above the status of trying to obtain someone way out of your league. The equal to equal ratio between what men can obtain and what men obtain is severely unequal.[/quote]
did it ever occur to you she might have her own reasons for not going out with somone or for pursuing somone else? that different women want different things?
[quote/]Western society empowers women to step outside of their gender for the sake of power.[/quote]
step outside their gender? what is "their gender"?
everyone I've dated was my friend before we started dating.Leon Declis said:
and when we started dating they turned into shit heads (read as "completely different people")
in a practical sense what (Besides the potential for sex) is the difference between a friend and a girlfriend?
if someone is "friendzoning" you, the only thing that means is that they don't want to have sex. right?
(Unless friendzoning is when someone is too polite to say "Get the fuck away from me you creep" but it that's the case you should probably leave that person alone)
if that's the case how does what I said not apply to the friend zone?
If you liked her enough to consider her a friend before the feelings started up (I'm assuming that's how with happened) then frankly, do you really want to give up this relationship just because she is uncomfortable taking it to the next level? The feelings will pass, just let them go. Don't let HER go.
Also random note...how come guys are never accused of putting girls in the friend zone?
Also random note...how come guys are never accused of putting girls in the friend zone?
From what I'm reading here, most guys leave if they can't get sex so... no friend no zone :/erttheking said:
Where you fail is in your assumption that the person placed in the friendzone was only pursuing sex and not a truly romantic and fulfilling relationship. Being around someone who you truly love who doesn't reciprocate can be quite painful so distance can be required to allow the romantic desire to fade away.Phil the Nervous said:
I find it odd how many people here simply assume that men are only after sex when they express romantic interest in someone, it's a pretty sad and cynical way to view social interaction.
Treeinthewoods said:
You've meshed two disparate statements together and come out with the wrong point, My views were
A. A general confusion about relationships as a whole and
B. A mild depression that males who stay friends with girls who don't wish to date are in the minority, I simply used sex as a point because it falls in the base of the theoretical hierarchy of needs
Also, that was kind of rude, there's no need to say that someone 'fails' as your introduction.