Do Americans have a right to carry?

[emeraldrafael]

The idiot carries a gun everywhere he goes? He's fucking insane, what he did may have been legal (by some fucking retarded laws anyway, I'm guessing PA is in the south of America) but still get him locked away for some reason before he has a stressful day at work and shoots up the office.

No... we have a south. Its called Texas.

But seriously, you can do that in quite a few states in the US, spread out between the North, South, East, and West.

Besides, I can see his reasoning. When you live in Phily (well, any big city, but this happened in Philly), its not uncommon to get jumped, and most muggers dont like to hear you say "No thank, please go away now and let me go home". It can turn very dangerous to be jumped, and a gun is rather big deterent if the mugger isnt also carrying and/or confident of their abilities. I know it happens in Pittsburgh, and even in smaller towns. Theres a reason most people who are out on the street in my borough either:

A) Carry
B) Know how to fight
C) Are the actual muggers.

 

[Pearwood]

That's the point of the license, the person made a course and got a permit. Nothing wrong with it, he was background checked.

I thought it was established earlier on in the topic that you don't need a license to carry a gun in that state? Plus everywhere he goes... that includes when he's walking past schools, walking down the street while people are trying to do their shopping in peace, he does sound at least slightly deranged.

Besides, I can see his reasoning. When you live in Phily (well, any big city, but this happened in Philly), its not uncommon to get jumped, and most muggers dont like to hear you say "No thank, please go away now and let me go home". It can turn very dangerous to be jumped, and a gun is rather big deterent if the mugger isnt also carrying and/or confident of their abilities.

I can see the reasoning as well but if you have a gun at your hip everyone around you knows you can kill them without any warning. They don't know your mental state, in effect you're threatening everyone who sees you. I understand that America is a different place where gun crime is a lot more common and people need to defend themselves from that but to carry a gun everywhere in plain sight just seems like complete insanity.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

That officer sounded INSANE. Maybe because it is common where I live to see holstered firearms, that it is a non issue. People do not even think twice when neighbors are out holding their firearms. My only issue is when hunting season opens and the shots start at like 3am. That is just too damn early to start waking up everyone with gunfire.
He refused to even look at the guys Drivers license and permit? Where do they get these people?

 

[SuccessAndBiscuts]

The idiot carries a gun everywhere he goes? He's fucking insane, what he did may have been legal (by some fucking retarded laws anyway, I'm guessing PA is in the south of America) but still get him locked away for some reason before he has a stressful day at work and shoots up the office.

How did I guess you were from the UK?

That's the point of the license, the person made a course and got a permit. Nothing wrong with it, he was background checked.

Funny how people on the otherside of the world have a weaponphobia.

ITT people who don't live in America being condescending dicks due to some sort of ill- conceived moral superiority because they are unarmed.

Pretty much. makes no sense to me. I've lived in U.S for a bit and Colombia for another bit. It's gonna take a disaster to change their mind.

No, its simply because we have a totally different culture from you. Our approach to a wide variety of things is utterly different, compare cars and food for example?

Guns are simply not viewed as necessary for the wide variety of people over here and those that need them can get hold of them.

 

[Treaos Serrare]

That's the point of the license, the person made a course and got a permit. Nothing wrong with it, he was background checked.

I thought it was established earlier on in the topic that you don't need a license to carry a gun in that state? Plus everywhere he goes... that includes when he's walking past schools, walking down the street while people are trying to do their shopping in peace, he does sound at least slightly deranged.

he isn't waving it around shooting it off like in old cowboy movies, so how exactly is that deranged?

 

[LCP]

That's the point of the license, the person made a course and got a permit. Nothing wrong with it, he was background checked.

I thought it was established earlier on in the topic that you don't need a license to carry a gun in that state? Plus everywhere he goes... that includes when he's walking past schools, walking down the street while people are trying to do their shopping in peace, he does sound at least slightly deranged.

My bad, I admit that carry should probably need a permit.

Weapon laws are so messed up in the U.S is ridiculous.

You have to be 21 to own a handgun but 18 to own a rifle or shotgun.
Weapon Permits might not cover knifes.
Gravity knifes have more restrictions than guns in some areas.

The idiot carries a gun everywhere he goes? He's fucking insane, what he did may have been legal (by some fucking retarded laws anyway, I'm guessing PA is in the south of America) but still get him locked away for some reason before he has a stressful day at work and shoots up the office.

How did I guess you were from the UK?

That's the point of the license, the person made a course and got a permit. Nothing wrong with it, he was background checked.

Funny how people on the otherside of the world have a weaponphobia.

ITT people who don't live in America being condescending dicks due to some sort of ill- conceived moral superiority because they are unarmed.

Pretty much. makes no sense to me. I've lived in U.S for a bit and Colombia for another bit. It's gonna take a disaster to change their mind.

No, its simply because we have a totally different culture from you. Our approach to a wide variety of things is utterly different, compare cars and food for example?

Guns are simply not viewed as necessary for the wide variety of people over here and those that need them can get hold of them.

*please note I'm from Colombia*

My problem with outlawing them , is that it does nothing... However i will agree that carry and open carry should probably require a weapon competence test and background check.

 

[internetzealot1]

...I was under the impression that you needed another license to conceal firearms.

 

[[.redacted]]

Only if they can feed themselves.

Carries can't just rely on getting fed.

 

[KingPiccolOwned]

This has cycled through here a few times already, but my position hasn't changed.

Americans do and should have the right to carry, and infringing upon that is going against our personal freedom and the Bill of Rights. If anyone thinks that we are interpreting the 2nd Amendment incorrectly, they need to call their congressman and demand a constitutional amendment immediately.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

This means that we should be able to form a militia when necessary, but also that our individual right to own a firearm can not be infringed upon. The Supreme Court has sided with this time and time again.

Personally, I happen to believe that was merely supposed to mean being able to serve in the military (which means that banning homosexuals was unconstitutional).

However, that's totally irrelevant, as there's no reason why you can't allow for privately owned weapons with other laws (or, for that matter, ignore the Bill of Rights when convenient).

Speaking from a historical context, 'militia' refers more to a collection of civilians that have taken up arms for one reason or another, rather than a distinct military force, or at least that's always how I've understood it.

Even so

 

[Tdc2182]

I think they need to quash the gun mentality of police officers more so. I agree with a few people here, it's becoming second nature to pull out their handguns in situations that really don't call for it. I have the feeling that all these people truly believe they are gonna be in a shootout at one point during their lives.

Pulling out your weapon is a last resort. And I mean last resort in the highest stretches of the imagination. If someone is immediately threatening yours or someone elses life, take out our sidearm.

But they seem to think it's okay nowadays to go pull out your gun while chasing down a shoplifter. It's like they all believe they are in a fucking Cop drama.

 

[Soylent Dave]

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

This means that we should be able to form a militia when necessary, but also that our individual right to own a firearm can not be infringed upon. The Supreme Court has sided with this time and time again.

It is worth bearing in mind that much of the US Constitution is lifted from the Bill of Rights 1689, including the right to bear arms.

Most of the Act is an attempt to redress the actions of the previous (Catholic) monarch, James II who "by the assistance of divers evil counsellors, judges and ministers employed by him, did endeavour to subvert and extirpate the Protestant religion and the laws and liberties of this kingdom" - so it's a totally unbiased piece of legislation, as you might imagine...

Anyway, that's why the act states

"That the subjects which are Protestants may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law"

(which in effect meant "Gentry get to carry weapons, Peasants don't")

The key point is really that the right to bear arms is 'as appropriate'; so if you live in the middle of nowhere, then you probably need weaponry capable of taking down a bear or a dragon, or whatever wild animals wander about in those bits of the US.

If you live in a city, it's not really appropriate to carry heavy artillery, guns or swords (all of which might make you feel safer, but so would a blanky).

(The 'armed & well-regulated militia' bit is lifted from a related act, and is a provision specifically to prevent the King sending peasantry into battle unarmed (not that English monarchs were ever complete and total bastards or anything))

 

[Pearwood]

My problem with outlawing them , is that it does nothing... However i will agree that carry and open carry should probably require a weapon competence test and background check.

It does nothing initially, over time you'd probably start to see a steady decline. But of course violent crime would rise sharply for a while before that as criminals are armed and aware their victims aren't so I agree it would be unrealistic to implement it. I completely agree about the background checks and competance tests though, as it is there is no way for anyone to know if this man is mentally stable, has drug addictions, a criminal record or even knows how to aim a gun.

 

[SuccessAndBiscuts]

Spoiler: snip

That's the point of the license, the person made a course and got a permit. Nothing wrong with it, he was background checked.

I thought it was established earlier on in the topic that you don't need a license to carry a gun in that state? Plus everywhere he goes... that includes when he's walking past schools, walking down the street while people are trying to do their shopping in peace, he does sound at least slightly deranged.

My bad, I admit that carry should probably need a permit.

Weapon laws are so messed up in the U.S is ridiculous.

You have to be 21 to own a handgun but 18 to own a rifle or shotgun.
Weapon Permits might not cover knifes.
Gravity knifes have more restrictions than guns in some areas.

The idiot carries a gun everywhere he goes? He's fucking insane, what he did may have been legal (by some fucking retarded laws anyway, I'm guessing PA is in the south of America) but still get him locked away for some reason before he has a stressful day at work and shoots up the office.

How did I guess you were from the UK?

That's the point of the license, the person made a course and got a permit. Nothing wrong with it, he was background checked.

Funny how people on the otherside of the world have a weaponphobia.

ITT people who don't live in America being condescending dicks due to some sort of ill- conceived moral superiority because they are unarmed.

Pretty much. makes no sense to me. I've lived in U.S for a bit and Colombia for another bit. It's gonna take a disaster to change their mind.

No, its simply because we have a totally different culture from you. Our approach to a wide variety of things is utterly different, compare cars and food for example?

Guns are simply not viewed as necessary for the wide variety of people over here and those that need them can get hold of them.

*please note I'm from Colombia*

My problem with outlawing them , is that it does nothing... However i will agree that carry and open carry should probably require a weapon competence test and background check.

I agree actually, outlawing them would do nothing now, but over here in the UK things are substantially different.

 

[Panken]

As someone who has a carry permit, and lives in The States, im not too suprised that the cop freaked out. Police are trained to take control of situations, by force if necessary, when they see what they think is an illegal activity espically if it involves a gun.

When I took the class to carry a firearm, (I am in a different state than this incident) the instructor, who was a police Liutenet, said we were allowed to open carry with the concealed carry permit. However in doing so we would attract alot of attention that we may not want, and that under the right circumstances, you might end up in a situation like this. (Which is why I conceal carry when I do carry.)

It is really this guy's own fault that he ended up in this situation. Do I think the police officer could have handled this situation a little more peacefully? Yes, he could have. However, he was doing his job.

My problem with outlawing them , is that it does nothing... However i will agree that carry and open carry should probably require a weapon competence test and background check.

It does nothing initially, over time you'd probably start to see a steady decline. But of course violent crime would rise sharply for a while before that as criminals are armed and aware their victims aren't so I agree it would be unrealistic to implement it. I completely agree about the background checks and competance tests though, as it is there is no way for anyone to know if this man is mentally stable, has drug addictions, a criminal record or even knows how to aim a gun.

Also, to get my carry permit I had to undergo a background check, a shooting test, a written test on gun "Theory" (parts of a gun, how to clean, situations where it is legal to discharge your firearm), and I had to get my fingers printed and put into the database that the law enforcement agencies use.

 

[Ulvai]

Oh, boy. How do we live in Europe without carrying all those guns?

 

[rutger5000]

I don't believe this is real. No way any cop is that incompetent, or is any person that calm when a madmen is pointing a gun at him.

 

[SuccessAndBiscuts]

I've posted in the other thread not so long back about why the police in the UK should not be allowed to carry firearms.

Now I'm going to come full circle on this, I'm glad I don't live in the States, but if I did I would own a gun. Gun culture is massively ingrained in the states and if everyone around me has one I wouldn't be happy unless I had access to one and a decent amount of training too (a case of when in Rome do as the Romans do).

Trying to remove US gun culture is impossible, so as much as I wish it were unnecessary those who live in the states do have a right to carry.

"Gun culture" is a massive bullshit myth. Guns are expensive, they are also trouble, you have to clean them and learn how to use them without hurting yourself.

About the only people in the US who have guns do it to hunt, sure some just collect them, or are paranoid and like to be armed in case of attack or robbery against them, but most of us are just as unarmed as any other country.

Yay ignorance.

Everyone I have ever spoken to from America has claimed to own at least one firearm, I also have relatives across there who own guns. I accept its a big place and not everywhere is the same but that is my experience. Not intentional ignorance as much as a generalisation based on what I have seen, been told and read about the states.

I fully intend to visit one day and hope to be proven wrong.

Cars are also expensive, trouble and you have to clean them and learn to use them without hurting yourself.

 

[KaiRai]

I'm not too fresh on gun laws, but don't you need mor permeits to conceal the carried firearm than you do to openly carry it? Seems this cop went a bit OTT.

OT: I knew a guy in the US who was going to a shooting range with a few friends, had his weapons in carry cases on the back seat next to a friend, and another friend riding shotgun. Cops pulled him over for a routine traffic stop, asked him what was in the cases and he said "Guns. I'm going to the shooting range with a few buddies"
Reached for his permits and the cop threatened to shoot him. His response was "How the hell do you get your guns from point A to point B?"

The moral? Some cops are just looking to get their arrest record up.

 

[Ulvai]

And... Damn, he carried a gun because he feared he'd be mugged? How do you mug people in he US? Running towards them screaming "Your wallet or your life!" from thirty meters? Here's mugging 101: You walk casually towards your target, your buddies good 100 m behind him, when you are close enogh to throw a punch - you throw it, then knock the victim down to the ground, while your buddies come running towards you, then - you kick the victim on the ground, take what you want, run away. Gun would do nothing! Absolutely bloody nothing!

 

[Aur0ra145]

Open carrying seems like a tactical disadvantage to me. I always carry concealed.