Do bronies challenge traditional masculine values?

[V da Mighty Taco]

OP, you're right! Our perception of masculine and feminine ideals changes every few decades. I myself consider MLP the best thing that a man can enjoy.

Spoiler

When there are ton of pictures and a few videos of male fans cumming on MLP toys/doll and pictures...There's even a flash game where you can fuck raindow dash...I don't think so

Rule 34 exists for EVRYTHING. Ponies are by no means the weirdest thing for people to fantasize about.

Spare me from that rule 34 jargon. There are people who actually fancy them sexually explicitly as characters not the fact they might have a pair of tits and a hole drawn on.

And your point is? There's also Rule #40 - if it exists, there is a fetish for it - and is heavily tied to Rule #34. Doesn't mean that those who wanna actually fuck ze poniez are even close to the majority or that they're not seen as oddballs by most bronies. Just look at how much crap tiarawhy (a known R34 brony) gets or how much the fandom ridiculed that one infamous Lyra plush. Most of us actually don't like pony porn at all, contrary to what you may think.

 

[Quadocky]

I don't think Bronies really challenge masculine values because at a certain level I see the same debase overt sexualization of the characters in a way that defines the creepiness of other fandoms.

Or rather, employ blatant misogyny while identifying as a 'brony' (which, while probably rare) is still one of those things you just look at and verbally mutter "What the F***"

So all in all, white guy nerds being white guy nerds.

The problem I have I guess is that bronies seem to act like they are doing something taboo which is Watching a show for GIRRLLLSSS as if television programming for girls is somehow bad or something? Or more like "EVEN THOUGH ITS LITTLE GIRLS it offers enough notoriety for us straight white nerds to enjoy."

EDIT: of course this is only one perspective, I mean, sometimes I see this weird attitude that is like they are somehow liberating it from its intended audience or something.

 

[V da Mighty Taco]

If you took a lot of the things said in this thread and replaced bronies with girl gamers it would sound a whole lot more sexist. Just an observation.

OT: No, they're not challenging traditional masculine values. Watching a show aimed for girls instead of men, playing games instead of playing with dolls, wearing dresses instead of jeans and a t-shirt just means you personally like those things.
I hate how everything needs to have some sort of social movement behind it, no matter how trivial. You can't be a guy who likes a show, you have to be a brony fighting traditional masculine values. You can't be a girl who likes games, you have to be a feminist fighting traditional feminine values. My philosophy in life for pretty much anything is "If it doesn't hurt people, and is consensual (and you aren't being an annoying asshole) then go ahead and do what you want.

I actually follow a very similar philosophy, minus the annoying asshole bit due to what's annoying being highly subjective and wildly varying from person-to-person.

Anyways, a person doesn't actively have to be trying to fight traditional values in order to actually be affecting them. My point earlier was that the whole brony fandom is just one small part of an overall societal shift in gender roles and traditional values but that we're fairly minute compared to the movements that actually seek to try to change things, such as the LBGT movement. Guys liking a little girls cartoon or women playing video games is changing what is seen as socially acceptable to some degree, even if that's not the point of it. Still, they're not affecting things to the point that they should be seeing themselves as actually part of a meaningful social movement, and you're right that somebody doing something just because they enjoy it shouldn't automatically be seen as them trying to be some sort of freedom fighter (for a lack of a better term).

 

[V da Mighty Taco]

I don't think Bronies really challenge masculine values because at a certain level I see the same debase overt sexualization of the characters in a way that defines the creepiness of other fandoms.

Or rather, employ blatant misogyny while identifying as a 'brony' (which, while probably rare) is still one of those things you just look at and verbally mutter "What the F***"

So all in all, white guy nerds being white guy nerds.

The problem I have I guess is that bronies seem to act like they are doing something taboo which is Watching a show for GIRRLLLSSS as if television programming for girls is somehow bad or something? Or more like "EVEN THOUGH ITS LITTLE GIRLS it offers enough notoriety for us straight white nerds to enjoy."

EDIT: of course this is only one perspective, I mean, sometimes I see this weird attitude that is like they are somehow liberating it from its intended audience or something.

This comes down to the issue that, well, a grown man liking a show for little girls is seen as pretty taboo, especially outside of the interwebz. The whole hyper-defensive attitude some bronies have stems almost entirely from this, and it's only been recently that places like here and 4chan have generally grown to accept their existence without immediately condemning them, let alone how the real world treats it.

EDIT: My 400th post is a double post. Sorry 'bout that.

 

[GeneralFungi]

Do we really need to allways stick to adult stuff if we are adults? I dont think so and MLP is not like watching a barbie movie...

'No! Because I am an adult! Adults watch adult TV and kids watch kids tv! Because we're adults!'

It's the exact same reason children try to sneak into watching films that are rated too high for them to watch and part of the reason they like to play mature rated games. Some people always feel the need to reinforce that they are mature, even in their leisure time. Ironically I view it as very childish behavior.

Personally I recognize the show as good, but not so good that I would proclaim myself a brony and make sure to watch every episode religiously. Some of them are a bit too fanatic for me but I'll let them keep on doing what they want to do. I'm fine with it personally.

 

[Duncan Belfast]

Yes.

To properly answer the question, we have to go back to one of the core ideas behind MLP:FiM:
"Girly" or "feminine" does not have to mean "stupid", "bad", or "inferior".

Right now, if a girl wants to enjoy masculine things, she's generally seen as a tomboy. However, if a boy wants to enjoy feminine things, he's looked down upon, seen as weak, and often called "gay". Some people have even called us mentally ill for enjoying something that we're "not suposed to". Lauren Faust (the show's executive producer) herself has said on DA that girly things are regarded with so much contempt. There's this mindset that if something is targeted at girls, it's going to be shallow, condescending, and not very interesting. MLP:FiM challenged that mindset head-on.

I think the main hook that kept people interested was that they were surprised by just how good it was, despite being based on one of the girliest franchises on the planet. Here was this show, targeted at little girls, and it had interesting, likeable characters, good writing, a good sense of humour, and even world-building. The idea that something made specifically for girls could have a wider appeal was actually a foreign concept to us. So then came the realization that just because something is girly, it isn't necessarily bad.

We were all scared at first. "Oh God, what is happening to us?". But we stopped, and took a look at ourselves. Liking this show hadn't turned us gay. Our penises were still attached. We could still drive stick. Those of us who were in the military hadn't lost all of their training. We didn't suddenly lose our ability to do and enjoy "boy stuff". We could still be as masculine as ever. We just also enjoyed this one feminine thing. Which lead to the second realization, which I'll let Paarthurnax explain:

"What is better Dovahkiin? To preserve one's masculinity by eliminating one's femininity, or to have one's masculinity endure and coexist with one's femininity?"

There are reasons why we try to get other people to watch the show. We aren't out to actively annoy people. We just think that, for a number of reasons, this show is worth sharing. The biggest reason is that we enjoy it, and that's what people do when they enjoy things: they share them with others. I also think that, whether we realize it or not, watching the show has altered our perception of gender values. So, maybe on a subconscious level, we want to share our realization with others. However, as 4chan, Fox News and others have shown us, this is an idea that a lot of people aren't ready to embrace.

And all this is an unintended byproduct of us enjoying pretty ponies making friends and going on adventures.

 

[Abomination]

]Yes because male bronies are not known for being terribly masculine

Baseless Generalisations.

Hardly. Of all the bronies that are publicized and the type of people who attended Pony/Bronycon I can say with full certainty that the average male there did not exhibit particular signs of masculinity.

and it has nothing to do with how they like My Little Pony or not, it is the other factors. Factors like joining some pseudo-club on the internet

Not terribly relevant since you yourself joined The Escapist community so you could discuss video games.

And that is not one of my masculine traits, I never said this site was masculine.

discussing a cartoon with fanatical devotion on the internet

Pony chat here on the Escapist talks about pony significantly less than other topics, since we already know that we like the show, we're in the user group after all. We talk politics, video games, warhammer vs halo happens a lot, etc.[/quote]The entire "movement" involves discussing ponies on the internet, an act that is not masculine at all.

the average and stereotypical brony (ignoring their appreciation for a cartoon aimed at girls) does not conjure the image of a masculine male.

In your mind sure, but again that's hardly an objective viewpoint you are pushing as fact.

Not just in my mind, in many peoples' because the average brony is simply not very masculine.

 

[Abomination]

So all in all, white guy nerds being white guy nerds.

Which I think, we all can agree, is not a very masculine thing to do.

 

[Radoh]

]Yes because male bronies are not known for being terribly masculine

Baseless Generalisations.

Hardly. Of all the bronies that are publicized and the type of people who attended Pony/Bronycon I can say with full certainty that the average male there did not exhibit particular signs of masculinity.

Because you've been to the cons and have seen all the bronies that are publicised right?
Here's a picture of a well-known brony who goes to cons and is known by the name Dustykat.

So this man here goes to the cons, makes music, draws ponies and is well publicised, you asserting more baseless claims saying guys like Dustykat aren't manly because they watch a show is ridiculous.

and it has nothing to do with how they like My Little Pony or not, it is the other factors. Factors like joining some pseudo-club on the internet

Not terribly relevant since you yourself joined The Escapist community so you could discuss video games.

And that is not one of my masculine traits, I never said this site was masculine.

Again, terribly irrelevant as you are asserting Bronies aren't masculine because they joined a group.

discussing a cartoon with fanatical devotion on the internet

Pony chat here on the Escapist talks about pony significantly less than other topics, since we already know that we like the show, we're in the user group after all. We talk politics, video games, warhammer vs halo happens a lot, etc.

The entire "movement" involves discussing ponies on the internet, an act that is not masculine at all.

So therefore all bronies are unmanly because a trait they have isn't typically considered masculine. And since you joined a site that is not typically associated with manliness than you are not manly as well, because apparently a man needs to be manly 100% of the time in order to be considered masculine.

the average and stereotypical brony (ignoring their appreciation for a cartoon aimed at girls) does not conjure the image of a masculine male.

In your mind sure, but again that's hardly an objective viewpoint you are pushing as fact.

Not just in my mind, in many peoples' because the average brony is simply not very masculine.

Baseless generalisations, citation needed since you are asserting this as fact.

 

[Abomination]

Here's a picture of a well-known brony who goes to cons and is known by the name Dustykat.

A brony, yes. I am not claiming ALL, I am claiming the average. One masculine member doesn't prove the average brony to be masculine.

You are the one insisting I am saying all. I am not saying all. I am saying the average.

Again, terribly irrelevant as you are asserting Bronies aren't masculine because they joined a group.

No, I said the action isn't a masculine thing to do.

I never said that at all. I said the average brony is not very masculine. The average male on this site is not a very masculine individual. It doesn't mean every person on this site can not be manly but that a higher proportion of males on this site will not exhibit as many masculine traits as the average male.

Are you saying that EVERY brony is masculine? Because I am not saying that every brony isn't, just that the average isn't.

It isn't a hard distinction. Liking My Little Pony is the opposite of masculine thing to do. Like with any action that is the opposite of masculine the majority of people who perform said action will have a less masculine traits than the average. There can be outliers but you would be disingenuous to claim they were not a minority.

Baseless generalisations, citation needed since you are asserting this as fact.

Do I really have to start linking pictures of bronycon attendees at bronycon?

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Why is it demeaning to like something made specifically for girls. The show has great animation, voice acting and writing.
It's no different from someone watching Transformers, Thundercats or Gravity Falls.

I saw someone compare it to watching puppies play for half an hour.

This is why we can't have anything nice.

 

[Abomination]

Why is it demeaning to like something made specifically for girls. The show has great animation, voice acting and writing.
It's no different from someone watching Transformers, Thundercats or Gravity Falls.

I saw someone compare it to watching puppies play for half an hour.

This is why we can't have anything nice.

Nobody says liking My Little Pony is demeaning. I enjoy the show a lot and have watched every episode, but I don't think me doing so challenges what it means to be male.

The brony "movement" is just a fan base with varying degrees of obsession, like trekkies, furries, browncoats, otacons or whatever they're called. They're not special, they're just a thing.

 

[shintakie10]

Suited for Success was an entire episode about Rarity gettin the fame she always wanted, then realizin it wasn't worth givin up her friends for. It was also considered to be one of the better episodes in the show.

I'm pretty sure EVERY cartoon has one if not several episodes about Be Careful What You Wish For. Is this really the show at its finest?

Considerin that wasn't the point of the episode, sure why not.

Edit - The actual moral of the episode was more along the lines of bein true to yourself and to never forget where you came from, nor to forget the people that have always been there for you along the way once you reach your goals.

 

[kickyourass]

Only in the sense that we're watching a show aimed primarily at the opposite gender.
As much as I love the show and (most) of the community, a man watching this MLP isn't 'challenging traditional masculine values' any more then a woman watching Transformers of G.I. Joe is 'challenging traditional feminine values.' It's just a person enjoying fiction that wasn't initially aimed at them, nothing more nothing less.

 

[Panda Mania]

Do females who like MLP conform to traditional feminine values?

Just a question.


EDIT: dammit! ninja'd by the post above :\

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Suited for Success was an entire episode about Rarity gettin the fame she always wanted, then realizin it wasn't worth givin up her friends for. It was also considered to be one of the better episodes in the show.

I'm pretty sure EVERY cartoon has one if not several episodes about Be Careful What You Wish For. Is this really the show at its finest?

Considerin that wasn't the point of the episode, sure why not.

Edit - The actual moral of the episode was more along the lines of bein true to yourself and to never forget where you came from, nor to forget the people that have always been there for you along the way once you reach your goals.

Pretty standard-issue plotline if you ask me. I'm not saying MLP is bad, but, dunno, just seems so... mediocre.

 

[Yal]

Do females who like MLP conform to traditional feminine values?

Sure. Ponies never got the same flak as Barbie, no body image issues, but we are looking at Hasbro's premiere pink aisle brand here. The adult equivalent would be romantic comedies and chick lit.

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

We are challenging traditional masculine values? I dunno. I just watch the show. It's not a fucking lifestyle, people. It's not even really a hobby. Saying that watching MLP:FiM is challenging traditional masculine values is like saying someone playing on a Wii that isn't normally considered a gamer is challenging traditional jock values.

Oh, and as a brony, I'd appreciate you not throwing me in with the fans of the show that do stuff you find offensive. As gamers who have had to deal with making sure the government knows you aren't one of the gamers that goes on a killing spree after playing a violent video game, I thought you would understand that you can't judge an entire fandom by the actions of the more extreme members.

I understand that there are those of you who just don't care for the show. More power to you. But I am not a pedophile/zoophile who wants to fuck an animated pony just because I do like the show.

Where was I? Oh, yeah. We aren't challenging anything, other than the idea that merchandising shows have to be bad.

 

[Radoh]

Here's a picture of a well-known brony who goes to cons and is known by the name Dustykat.

A brony, yes. I am not claiming ALL, I am claiming the average. One masculine member doesn't prove the average brony to be masculine.

You are the one insisting I am saying all. I am not saying all. I am saying the average.

Hardly. Of all the bronies that are publicized

Of ALL the bronies that are publicised. Notice that you are in fact saying ALL and not most, or the average, you are saying ALL. Of course, even if you had been saying average you'd still be lying since, once again, you are making baseless generalisations.