Do many Westerners really dislike Japanese games for such shallow reasons as "anime"?

[thewaever]

I was responding specifically to the idea of "the west shallowly refusing a game because it has manga designs". If I decide I don't want a game simply because I don't like the way it's packaged, it doesn't mean anything about my character. It doesn't mean I'm shallow, lack empathy, understanding or gaming comprehension, and to say so seems ridiculous. It's me deciding whether or not to buy a product nothing more.

You spending your money on what you like is a great thing! Capitalism at work.

But, this might be a part of where we're not connecting. I'm not talking about your spending habits. I'm not even talking about you, really. Yours just happened to be the most recent post.

Keep in mind that I'm not the OP, so I might be putting words in his mouth, but here's an example of what I'm trying to say.

I don't own any of the Gears of War series, largely due to its art style. I just don't like that kind of art.
But, I don't feel that I'm being shallow about Gears of War for a couple of reasons.
1. I did try playing it to see if I enjoyed the gameplay.
2. Other people like the game, & I'm ok with that.
3. I'm not attacking the American gaming industry because I happen to dislike the Gear's of War art style.
4. I'm willing to try whatever new games Epic Games and Microsoft might offer in the future.

(TheVioletBandit, for all I know, you do all of the above things with Japanese games. The thing is, I'm not talking about you. I'm NOT saying that you are shallow, theVioletBandit. I don't know you at all. I'm trying to clear up what seems to be a disconnect between what the OP said & what people are understanding. Hell, Brimfield might even do all of the above, but he certainly didn't look like it from the way he posted...)

Anyway, what people are saying is that they are absolutely unwilling to look at anything that comes out of Japan, because it looks "anime." Many of these people go on to attack the Japanese game industry as a whole for trivial reasons based on very limited experience.

They say things like, "I don't like Japanese games because they're too anime. Japan should change to suit my tastes." Don't people say "Beauty is only skin deep?" Or "Don't judge a book by its cover?"

It's shallow to kick the Japanese game industry in the nuts because a character in FFTA-2 wore a hat.

 

[Spitfire]

I have a very passive relationship with JRPG's and anime, and there are things that I find very off-putting about both of those, but the visual design of the characters is not one of them. Having said that, I really don't see how someone's being shallow for disliking a game/series/movie because of its visual style. That's just personal preference, and I think that's a perfectly valid argument for disliking a piece of entertainment.

 

[LilithSlave]

I am completely put off by the anime aesthetic. Like, it's actually actively unpleasant and irritates me.

I'm going to make a confession of sorts in this thread. Probably one that won't change anything or making anything better, but only make things worse like I've experienced in the past. It also goes completely contrary to making this thread, which is a tit for tat of sorts. If I don't stand my ground here, and I admit to such a thing, I'll never have another chance with this user on this site, at the very least.

I hate Western aesthetics. I think some of the old art and things are cool, but I hate mainstream cartoon aesthetics, and even worse, video game aesthetics. They literally annoy me. Even when going for realism they seem to annoy me, and the disciple of designing realistic CG seems to differ. There have of course been games I'll make an exception for, like skateboarding games, because I like skateboarding and the culture. Which happens, by the way, to be focused on skinny "emo looking" guys as the norm, not beefy bodybuilders.

But as a whole, I'm probably a fan of the anime aesthetic before I'm a fan of video games. Video games introduced me to it, and I've been a fan of it ever since. And I've had a "shallow" preference for it ever since. It's been comfort zone and I've always sought out communities and things centred around enjoying it.

But that's been surprisingly hard. I'm often being pressured within the gaming community in order to "get along" or avoid being banned or the like, to like certain games. Like when I admitted I wasn't particularly interested in playing a certain Western game, on many different occasions, I was told I had a "retarded prejudice against non-Japanese games", a "gigantic ass burger and bigot", "shallow and superficial", "liking stupid prejudiced crap that has nothing to do with gameplay", "you need your meaningless entertainment to have yaoi crap in it. Let go of that and just allow yourself to have fun instead of forcing yourself to not enjoy things." By moderators, who have banned me for letting out that I felt this way and I just happened to like Japanese aesthetics and games. At the worst of things, at the biggest anime forums on the internet, this happened. Not at some random gaming site or wRPG forum, but in the most successful anime forums on the internet. Moderators got rid of me as being shallow, bigoted chaff. I've lost the anime forums I most loved going to in the world and called my online home, because I tried telling people off for dogpiling me for saying I prefer Japanese style video games.

I didn't know what to do after that, but to just play more video games more often. Play a few video games I don't like and talk about them, as to not be out of the closet about my actual desires, and then treat myself to playing a game I like that's super Japanese. That way, I could get away with both playing and talking about games that I love without leading to be ostracized and banned. Because while I like what I like, I don't want to be alone about it. I want to talk about it with likeminded people.

And so I wanted to learn a lesson out of my loss. If I couldn't get away with what I liked, at least I could focus on gameplay and call others who wouldn't play games based upon manga designs, the same things they called me. I hadn't much done it until now, but that was the plan. But things aren't going according to plan and I'm having this pathetic confession instead of just trying to learn my lesson from people who said only gameplay matters and punished me thusly. Perhaps I'll have a chance to stay strong about it somewhere else, sometime else, where I don't have the reputation that I do.

I don't know what to say or what to do, but I'm starting to feel very bitter. I don't know what to say, and what to do. I'm tired of making myself play a bunch of games I don't like recently, just for appearances. I'm tired of being worried any community will turn on me if I start admitting I like Japanese games. And that I have no one to talk to about this sort of thing other than my real life friends. Because I've already lost every internet community I've ever had before. I feel like I want to take every criticism toward me and find a way to use it for what I've loved.

And it's getting worse, because as I try to buckle in like this, it feels like the industry is just raising the bar against what I love. Westerners are gathering around to say fixing gameplay won't fix things, fixing characterization won't fix things, adding variety won't fix things, you have to get rid of the anime. You have to get rid of the big eyes and small mouth characters, you have to get rid of the blue hair, you have to get rid of the skinny men, you have to get rid of all the things that make the games Japanese culturally in any way, because we Westerns think that's stupid and won't buy it.

It feels like so many people are adamant on taking down and destroying everything I've loved in media since I was 7 years old. I feel fairly helpless, and like all I can do is go down kicking and screaming. While the anime industry is getting poorer. While games are being dominated by a bunch of macho games. While people are clamoring for the death of everything I love in Japanese games. While people will call me shallow and ban me if I admit to liking what I like and not liking what I don't. People will attack the parts of things I do like, if I pretend to only care about a third party thing that includes both.

I don't know what to do. I only know that I don't want everything I love in media and live and everything, in any sector, sexuality, video games, movies, music, tv shows, sports, anything, to be more marginalized. And my only instinct is to try anything that's been directed at me and I've been punished for, and see what sticks.

I don't know why I wrote all this. This could be the last post I ever make on this site. Or at least that anyone ever thinks anything of me than a stupid, mentally insane bigot. I guess it's because I always have something to get off my chest. Even if it ends in "you need seek help. Because you write way to much stupid, offensive weeaboo crap that nobody will ever want to read".. and then delete it and ban me. But I have to get these things off my chest sometimes. No matter the consequences. I don't think that most Escapist users like Japanese games much anyway. So I probably wouldn't lose much if I were banned and ostracized here, too. I apologize to anyone who might have lost what little respect they had for me here. I suck, I'm a dumb, shallow weeaboo who's obsessed with cute things, autist bigot superficial assburger pile of shit. That's what I am. And everything I love will wither like it's supposed to... I should stop fighting it.. as will everyone who feels like me.

At least I have My Little Pony.. it looks like. That seems to be flourishing, well enough. I was so happy to see something I loved in love be loved by a lot of other people for once, and be able to safely talk about and like it. Not to be punished and banned and marginalized, but to grow. I must sound so insane right now. I'm gonna go lay down for a while, I'm feeling pretty depressed and saying embarrassing things online that'll get me in trouble again.

 

[harvz]

ive sort of skimmed over you walls of text and some other posts to get the general idea of what is being said.
I think it was extra credits (on patv) who were talking about this and pointed out that japanese devs think western people are not interested in japanese game when we are just bored of the complete halt of innovation, I think its this which people are confusing with "Its anime".

I loved JRPG's to death for a very long time, but that died after playing the millionth turn based RPG. I tried FF13 among several others since I got my 360 many years ago and there is exactly one I actually enjoyed (which was infinite undiscovery) and even that took about 4 goes to get it started.

For me to be interested in a future JRPG they would have to innovate the battle engine, either to something completely new or perhaps FPS/action. The story would need to be something new (not Americanized but something outside the norm for JRPG's).

Frankly I think the Japanese game devs should give the FPS/TPS more of a go, vanquish was great and quite out there (i wish they had chosen a better cast, preferably mostly not americans), with what we've seen from that, I think they could completely redo the FPS/TPS from its current gray-brown state and bring it to a place completely unexplored.

 

[Kahunaburger]

I don't think that most Escapist users like Japanese games much anyway.

Probably true, unfortunately. However, at least you can be secure in the knowledge that you probably have better taste in games than most people who write off Japanese games for being Japanese. (Like that one developer: "hey, Japan, your games suck! Now off to make an indie puzzle platformer, because the market doesn't have enough of those!")

 

[Kahunaburger]

For me to be interested in a future JRPG they would have to innovate the battle engine, either to something completely new or perhaps FPS/action.

Yeah, who needs a system that supports tactical depth when you could just mash buttons?

Frankly I think the Japanese game devs should give the FPS/TPS more of a go, vanquish was great and quite out there (i wish they had chosen a better cast, preferably mostly not americans), with what we've seen from that, I think they could completely redo the FPS/TPS from its current gray-brown state and bring it to a place completely unexplored.

There's Binary Domain, too. Apparently it's pretty good.

 

[WaysideMaze]

Not only is the art style shitty

Woah, calm your opinions down.

However if someone actually calls something straight up BAD for being "too anime" then he is just a massive idiot.

I can't disagree with that.

I don't know if anyone else has called this out, 7 pages is a lot to look through, but the irony in this post is staggering.

 

[Robert Ewing]

I associate anime with actually very emotionally in depth stories.

Sure the stories can some times be no good, but that's the case with ALL stories, but at least anime always manages to get you emotionally involved.

In fact, there is a popular trend among anime watchers, called the 'great depression.' It is a syndrome an anime watcher gets when the series of anime they've been watching ends, and they are left with a crushing depression.

But I like anime, alot. So I don't really mind.

 

[paislyabmj]

i am not the biggest fan of anime art styles but the way i see it only very few games actually use that kind of art style.you find the vast majority of big budget Japanese games use more region neutral style while only atlus really seems dedicated to Japanese art styles and they don't seem to have suffered from it.