Do many Westerners really dislike Japanese games for such shallow reasons as "anime"?

[drednoahl]

I'm no longer fond of "anime styling," however twenty years ago I was. The really strange thing is that when I was a child I thought western styling was really poor compared to stuff done in anime (I didn't know it was anime back then though, but all my favourite things on TV were like Battle of the Planets, Marine Boy and Ulysees31.) I now personally think that western takes on anime styling are better than the real deal and the vast majority of anime made after 1996 are terrible. I was fanatical about anime in the nineties and used to be a fansubber, but the ending to Neon Genesis Evangelion pretty much killed my interest in anime, and every anime I've seen since I have been hypercritical and cynical about. I actually think that anime has devolved. I'll be curious to see if fans of Bioware become as jaded as I did after such a disappointment.

My friends who really hate anime have never given me a good reason for why they hate anime. What I have noticed though is that my friends who aren't particularly artistic in any form are the people who hate anime so my guess is that anime is for "dreamers," however sticking people into brackets is a dangerous pass-time so I shall stop right there. After all, taste is highly subjective and not something one would wisely critisise.

 

[Elfgore]

I know this is shallow but the art design is one main reason I dislike them. I find it weird. The only Anime shows I can watch are Pokemon and Yu-gi-oh, and that is because of the content. Also the plot lines are kinda boring and hard to follow if you miss just one episode. And lastly the combination of swords and guns, just doesn't work.

 

[chadachada123]

The one thing that I can't stand about various Japanese pieces of media is breasts the size of beach balls. That is one thing that they top Americans over, and is the thing that I totally can't stand. It's like the counter to American games that have protagonists with biceps larger than their heads.

Other than that, I quite enjoy anime stylings and many parts of Japanese culture. And their games? Hehe, I need only look to Dark Souls and Demon's Souls, and the Nintendo games of old that created the name "Nintendo Hard." Hell yeah.

 

[Something Amyss]

It's like movies. I don't like all those 3D-Animated pixxar stuff that started with Toy Story and Ice Age and whatnot - I simply don't care for the style.

Japanophobe!

>.>

I kid, I kid.

I agree with stylistic issues, which I can understand. While not strictly an issue of art asthetics, I don't like Tarantino movies. I like heavily stylised art, but only certain kinds. And anime tends to annoy me when even the most serious dramas throw in silly faces with crossed out eyes or nosebleeds, so I end up annoyed even at anime I like (and games I like).

Only part that bothers me is when it's just "eastern vs western." THEN it gets dumb.

I can definitely understand hating Pixar's style. Though personally, I like it.

 

[teh_gunslinger]

If you refuse to play a game because of manga aesthetics, you're being as shallow about video games as it is possible to be, and Japanese developers do not need to cater to you. Again, how would you react to someone if they said they wouldn't play a game because it "wasn't anime enough"?

I don't like most Japanese games for a variety of reasons, one of those being the art style they often use. I don't like it. So I don't play the games. It's pretty simple. I also don't read Harlequin novels because I don't like them. Neither suit my tastes.

(I should add that I just generally don't like Japanese pop culture and art. It doesn't suit my tastes. I've no objections to it or other peoples enjoyment of it. I just don't like it myself. But then, I also don't really like a lot of other stuff. I'm lucky enough to be aware of where my tastes lie and avoid what I don't like.)

And I don't particularly care if Japanese developers cater to me. They can cater to whom they wish.

And if someone refused to play a game because it wasn't anime enough, then more power to them. I certainly wouldn't force them to slog through a game they didn't like.

 

[Savagezion]

Anime is its own genre. It has a section for it at Suncoast, Netflix, etc. Some people don't like horror movies yet that is not seen as superficial. Some people don't like anime and that is not superficial. They simply just don't like it. It isn't shallow or superficial any more than someone else's tastes who don't like say action flicks. Hell, I don't like parody movies.

It is a valid critique and I like anime. However, I don't like when they do stuff like the "big tear" or the cats on shoulders crap. I understand why those things exist, I just think they fail at what they are trying to do. I like others though (like exaggerated expressions and such) but I guess my golden rule for anime is: it needs to set a tone and stick to that tone, and many don't do that. Some will be all serious Cowboy Bebop style then go full on Speed Racer out of nowhere.

If this is a superficial complaint, then all matters of taste are superficial.

 

[z121231211]

Well if you don't like the aesthetic, then you're not liking a significant part of the game. Though aesthetics are something that grow on you over time, but there's more to Japanese style games than just aesthetic differences. There's a lot of different cliches and cultural things that just put a lot of westerners off in a way I just can't understand, but that's mostly because I've watched anime all my life.

While putting off a game purely on aesthetic is pretty shallow, a game having that aesthetic usually means there's more things that'll put off westerners. And they just learned that "It looks anime" usually means that "kawaii desu ne, weeaboo galore" comes with.

Anime is its own genre.

No, just no. There is a HUGE variety of anime and to call it a genre would be like calling Video Games a genre, instead of a medium full of different genres.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

Are we not allowed to have preferences in visual aesthetics?

To the point of refusing them outright? Does gameplay not matter?

Yeah, it does. But I also don't tend to like the gameplay of Japanese games, especially JRPGs. I get that the thread is only about aesthetics, but that's rarely the ONLY reason, it's the combination. I don't even mind the anime look, it's the fact that it's almost always associated with something I dislike, I just sort of ignore it.

 

[Arbi Trax]

I don't really dislike the Anime/Manga art style in Japanese games, or the tropes/clichés that accompany them. However, Dark Souls is the only Japanese game that has held my attention for a period of time recently, and it had more of a hybrid art style.

Now show me a game in the art style of 40s-era Stalinist propaganda cartoons and we'll have a discussion on the importance of aesthetics. After I have recovered from the artgasm that is.

TLR - The visual style is unappealing, which is a shame, because Shinto mythology is interesting.

 

[ThePenguinKnight]

The reason most people seem to hate them is that they rarely have an identity of their own. They all revolve around the same plot and characters that are just re-skinned, gets old fast.

 

[370999]

People are fine to not play whatever for whatever reasons. I have zero interest in basketball so even if a NBA game came out which was super duper perfect, I wouldn't play it.

I think saying "dislike" is over stating it though. Most people are really just "disinterested" in JRPGs. Of course on the old net hyperbole gets thrown around like confetti so people exaggerate their feelings, however most people I've known didn't hate JRPGs just didn't want to play them.

Gosh that psot was rambling

 

[Samurai Silhouette]

Anime seems really immature, over the top, unfunny, and uninteresting. What people consider "deep" in anime seems nonsensical, obscure, and contrived to me. I may like some of the art style, but a game that's makes as much sense as an acid trip with a plot doesn't really float my boat.

 

[triggrhappy94]

I dont have many Japanese games--especially recent ones--because there's a real lack of exposure. I hardly ever see ads for them, at least ones that I'd like to play. Which brings me to my next point, there's not a lot of them out there that I'd like to play. Japanese developer should expand some. It's hard to tell which games constitute Japanese too.

 

[The Lunatic]

Anime looks pretty ugly.

The style is often very unappealing, they tend to default to silly storyline and fan service, not to say all, but, it's definitely prone to it.

 

[Terminate421]

Its not just the anime that may turn me off.
Its the gameplay (Which is usually shitty turn-based, Pokemon is forgivable due to type weaknesses)
Writing
Story
Style
Characters (FUCKING KOOKIE)

 

[Kahunaburger]

I don't recall characters exhibiting much depth in terms of facial expressions in HL2, and it hasn't seemed to have improved much since then. Take Mass Effect games, or Witcher games. Posture has, on the other hand, improved, and has taken up much of the slack for faces. L.A. Noire was better, although several players complained of uncanny valley-ness and faces not fitting bodies. Also, I doubt your average game development team has time or money to mo-cap an actor's face for every line of dialogue in the game to the extent that was done in L.A. Noire.

So in other words, photorealism is still a long way off. Stylized faces, on the other hand, are as human as the animators have time and effort to make them. And much cheaper.

The cut part: Ok, I can let that stand.

Now to the rest: I'd suggest to look into HL2 again, at least the part until you get the first weapon. The facial animations of Alys, Barney and Klein are quite impressive for that time (And they are way better than stuff I saw in Witcher or ME), stuff you could only find in animated media. This on the other hand is a different topic since games on itself have other limitations in creating such expressions (like the engine).

L.A. Noire had the thing for it that it was quite experimental. I don't recall any examples for this technology on such scale in the media and several issues can be forgiven. The thing with uncanny valley... I had none of such issues but I can see where it might come from (most probably one of many techonlogical flaws of that game).

Good point re: revisiting HL2, particularly with Episode 1-2. Those are excellent facial animations - although still a little stilted seeming IMO. The think to remember with HL2 and/or L.A. Noire, though, is that they have massive amounts of money and/or Gaben perfectionism behind them, which is not something that we can say about 99.9% of games.

I won't argue that heavy stylized faces are at least easier to convey certain emotions. In 2d projects and animated media are plenty of examples for that. What I would argue is the "anime face" in comparison to 3d methods that you brought up, especially in the context of gaming. "Anime face" lacks any detail and depth to express more than basic emotions (anger, happy and such), for more complex emotions (confusion, doubt) they need to add other visual indicators. Even the western comics, which have far more detail in them (more time to work on less pages = more time to go into detail) need to fall back to visual indicators.

I'm not sure about that - take [insert Miyazaki movie here] for an example of a more complex portrayal of emotions. Of course, your average anime face doesn't reflect Miyazaki perfectionism any more than your average 3-D face reflects Gaben perfectionism.

And even in terms of displaying simple emotions, 3-D faces, even in high-budget productions, have mixed results [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/Sylph_14/CreepyShep.jpg].

In 3d environments and especially formable faces it is easier to recreate those things. Again, in HL 2 we saw happiness, surprise, doubt, fear and a load more expressions believeable and recognizeable displayed through the possibilities created in the source engine. In this games we can orientate on actual humans and recreate those things, in animated media we need to use over the top reactions or visual indicators or it all boils down to a borefest.

I think it all comes down to which side of the uncanny valley it makes more sense to put facial markers of emotion for animated characters on. I've personally seen a more successes on the "cartoony" side, so I tend to veer towards thinking that we aren't quite there yet with 3-D models.

 

[Tony2077]

Anime looks pretty ugly.

The style is often very unappealing, they tend to default to silly storyline and fan service, not to say all, but, it's definitely prone to it.

is it pretty or ugly? just wanted to post in this thread again. i love anime and jrpgs bring me more damn you bring me more

 

[Chemical Alia]

I am completely put off by the anime aesthetic. Like, it's actually actively unpleasant and irritates me. I'm an artist, so visuals are a big factor for me in the games I play. I can usually overlook them if the gameplay and story are great, but that has rarely been my experience with Japanese games. The cliches of anime are just too much for me to stomach.

Though I do like some Mario.