Do people have souls???
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I'm sorry, I couldn't follow very well what he was saying, I had trouble hearing with his accent. ): What I did hear was interesting though.loc978 said:
But what's your point?
Well from my current knowledge I would say that souls as is our idea of them do not exist, everything we are is defined by our body, the definition may be beyond our grasp and appear mystical but lack of knowledge should never be viewed as proof of something supernatural.
But let's go completely sci-fi for a moment:
- we are physical/material living thinking machines
- and all matter is also energy(as we are slowly grasping though quantum physics)
- so could a purely energy based machine exist?
- if so, there could also be a energy based "creatures"
- as such these could be considered souls, or creatures of greater power even deities
- but would you call that a god?
Anyway I do not deny the possibility of souls or deities, but right now I have no proof of either, nor does anyone else(no matter how hard they believe).
But let's go completely sci-fi for a moment:
- we are physical/material living thinking machines
- and all matter is also energy(as we are slowly grasping though quantum physics)
- so could a purely energy based machine exist?
- if so, there could also be a energy based "creatures"
- as such these could be considered souls, or creatures of greater power even deities
- but would you call that a god?
Anyway I do not deny the possibility of souls or deities, but right now I have no proof of either, nor does anyone else(no matter how hard they believe).
If we gonna define souls from a Bible perspective it's most likely issued to anything that isn't an animal.
Problem is. We humans are monkeys, we're the only monkey that likes to think we're not monkeys. Monkeys are animals and animals don't have souls(According to bible.).
Problem solved.
Also electricity that the brain uses need substance to travel through the body, there is no way to just have a brain floating in what would look like nothing or going by like a blue form of our older self. It's physically and scientifically impossible.
If we had a soul we would most likely be able to detect it upon death. Matter doesn't just disappear people, it's the basic law of science. Something needs to go somewhere.
There is also this huge thing where religious people have never been able to provide a single piece of evidence that proves their God exist. If they can't prove the biggest and most powerful being in the entire universe we can easily assume souls do not exist because they're a byproduct of his creations.
Now you may ask what they could do. Simple, pray to their God to tell everyone on earth at once that he exist. They've tried to do but he's never done it.
But we evolved and wasn't created so this really isn't up to debate.
Conclusion: We don't have souls. We're just intelligent and have a high ego where we like to think we where made for something more important.
http://www.pown.it/5183
It's awesome.
Problem is. We humans are monkeys, we're the only monkey that likes to think we're not monkeys. Monkeys are animals and animals don't have souls(According to bible.).
Problem solved.
Also electricity that the brain uses need substance to travel through the body, there is no way to just have a brain floating in what would look like nothing or going by like a blue form of our older self. It's physically and scientifically impossible.
If we had a soul we would most likely be able to detect it upon death. Matter doesn't just disappear people, it's the basic law of science. Something needs to go somewhere.
There is also this huge thing where religious people have never been able to provide a single piece of evidence that proves their God exist. If they can't prove the biggest and most powerful being in the entire universe we can easily assume souls do not exist because they're a byproduct of his creations.
Now you may ask what they could do. Simple, pray to their God to tell everyone on earth at once that he exist. They've tried to do but he's never done it.
But we evolved and wasn't created so this really isn't up to debate.
Conclusion: We don't have souls. We're just intelligent and have a high ego where we like to think we where made for something more important.
http://www.pown.it/5183
It's awesome.
Whether or not people have souls is something I'd not expect to be decided on an Internet forum thread... but I would expect it to be a likely fuse to set off a flamewar.
Rene Descartes was roughly thinking about this when he was trying to prove, for certain, that something in this world is undoubtedly real.
This was because alot of what we know about the world comes from our senses, but i'm sure alot of people have experienced a moment in their lives where their senses and sense impressions have deceived them.
Senses are fallible; can anyone prove, with a priori knowledge (information that is true by definition and/or is not dependant on sense impressions ie: all bachelors are unmarried), that what they see, hear, smell, etc is what is most definitely true?
Rene Descartes was fairly distressed during his attempts because as soon as he took everything that is doubtable off his table, he couldn't put a damn thing back on... that is until he thought about something more introspective and, finally, he could prove the existence of something a priori: that HE existed.
Have you ever heard the phrase "I think, therefore I am"? That's the basic summary of his theory. He stated that to be deceived of the truth, there must be something to be deceived, otherwise nothing is being deceived and thus no deceiving is taking place. Therfore, in the smplest form there must be somthing that is deceived; something that exists beyond a shadow of a doubt: he is thinking about being deceived, he is a thinking thing.
Of course, this can be hard to believe, and even the theory itself has flaws, but it is the best a priori argument for our existence outside of our bodies and minds (bodies and parts of it are still fallible)and thus the existence of a soul is best explained by this statement.
This was because alot of what we know about the world comes from our senses, but i'm sure alot of people have experienced a moment in their lives where their senses and sense impressions have deceived them.
Senses are fallible; can anyone prove, with a priori knowledge (information that is true by definition and/or is not dependant on sense impressions ie: all bachelors are unmarried), that what they see, hear, smell, etc is what is most definitely true?
Rene Descartes was fairly distressed during his attempts because as soon as he took everything that is doubtable off his table, he couldn't put a damn thing back on... that is until he thought about something more introspective and, finally, he could prove the existence of something a priori: that HE existed.
Have you ever heard the phrase "I think, therefore I am"? That's the basic summary of his theory. He stated that to be deceived of the truth, there must be something to be deceived, otherwise nothing is being deceived and thus no deceiving is taking place. Therfore, in the smplest form there must be somthing that is deceived; something that exists beyond a shadow of a doubt: he is thinking about being deceived, he is a thinking thing.
Of course, this can be hard to believe, and even the theory itself has flaws, but it is the best a priori argument for our existence outside of our bodies and minds (bodies and parts of it are still fallible)and thus the existence of a soul is best explained by this statement.
An outdated relic from days gone by, when religion had a monopoly on the answers and held the ignorant populace in a vice tight grip. Though i suppose it still has some novelty uses in popular culture.
Spooky concepts like souls have no place in a modern society and should be relegated to fiction where it belongs.
Spooky concepts like souls have no place in a modern society and should be relegated to fiction where it belongs.
It's not an argument for our existence outside of our bodies and minds, just that our minds are not driven by physical events. It's a really flawed argument that can't answer important problems like how the supernatural aspects interact and affect the natural aspects/why physical altercation of the brain affects nonphysical mental states, and how non physical minds became associated with physical genetic lineages and at which point that occurred (or occurs). Do we get souls during conception? Birth?Racecar1994 said:
Personally, I'm a non-dualist.
I dont know, it might sound odd but I have thought of this when combined with the idea of cloning. I sometimes wonder if we can achieve immortality through cloning or transfering our memories into a computer. However I then think well, I can clone myself but I would still be me and that other guy would be someone else who is the exact same as me but not actually ME. So then, am I still me? Can we truly achieve immortality, sure if you count a perfect copy of me as being immortal, but when the real me truly died, its not like my conscience would somehow transfer to my clone. Same issue with transferring myself into a computer.DutchAssassin8 said:So i have to do this essay on souls for my philosofy class, and i just wanted to hear some differtent views on the case.
I dont think we have souls and that were just animals, biological robots, doing what our brains tells us to do with the help of pheromones, hormones etc. I base this on 3 things:
1 There is no scientific proof suggesting we have souls
2 Almost everything we feel can be explained by chemicals in our head (and other parts). Even things such as love and affection.
3 I'm an atheist therefore i believe the excistance of souls would also open up a possibility for the excistance of deities.
What do you think + arguments for your opinion.
Have Fun!
(remember, this is a philosofical argument. No hating on other people for their believes etc)
Excuse me for my crappy English.
My only solution has so far been integrating myself with technology until ive reached the point where the line is so blurred between myself and my technological augmentations that just switching the rest of my personality over to a hard drive or what have you would leave my current body an empty unusable shell.
Lol so having said ALL that, and coming up with the only solution I can actually see as one way I would be comfortable with immortality (without extending my natural life through medicine, which doesnt mean you are immortal seeing as how you can die at any time through physical trauma) I can say I am fairly certain we do not have souls.
Fairly certain.
If your class is familiar with the internet, you could score extra points by adding in your conclusion that gingers certainly dont have souls.
First of all as many have stated before it really depends on your definition of a "Soul"
I don't know about you, but if your happy living life believing that you are nothing but mass of fleshy wires and organic computer-like components resembling something of an almost human nature then fine, I hope you enjoy you goth poetry session or whatever it is you "trendy" social outcast types do.
As for me I do have a soul I can feel it, I know it exists and nothing can be said to convince me otherwise.
To me your logic is flawed and pointless.
Even if the soul is just an idea. its a good idea, It keeps people human and prevents a cold machine like existence. It makes men in to brothers and allow for
sympathy to the downtrodden. It prevents me form reaching over the counter and stabbing that fucking clerk at the gas station that makes comments and gives me shit every time I buy smokes.
I don't know about you, but if your happy living life believing that you are nothing but mass of fleshy wires and organic computer-like components resembling something of an almost human nature then fine, I hope you enjoy you goth poetry session or whatever it is you "trendy" social outcast types do.
As for me I do have a soul I can feel it, I know it exists and nothing can be said to convince me otherwise.
To me your logic is flawed and pointless.
Even if the soul is just an idea. its a good idea, It keeps people human and prevents a cold machine like existence. It makes men in to brothers and allow for
sympathy to the downtrodden. It prevents me form reaching over the counter and stabbing that fucking clerk at the gas station that makes comments and gives me shit every time I buy smokes.
There is "Scientific Proof" and then there are "theories," science has theories for darn near everything, but, it doesn't mean it has the answersDutchAssassin8 said:
The Placebo Effect, Go! But, seriously, not "Everything" can just be explained away with "chemicals in the brain"DutchAssassin8 said:2 Almost everything we feel can be explained by chemicals in our head (and other parts
You know, there's this show I enjoy watching, Ghost Hunters I think it is, and wow, let me tell ya, some freaky stuff happens sometimes, not to mention I've also experienced some weird crap in my days as well, could there be deities/Gods, maybe, but, it would be "unscientific" to believe otherwise, science is after all "the study of [insert funny sounding name thingy here]."DutchAssassin8 said:
To say that one thing can't be true you might as well be the "established science" of the dark ages, you can argue for or against but science requires that you have an open mind.
Yea!DutchAssassin8 said:What do you think + arguments for your opinion.
Have Fun!
I don't know if people have "souls"DutchAssassin8 said:So i have to do this essay on souls for my philosofy class, and i just wanted to hear some differtent views on the case.
I dont think we have souls and that were just animals, biological robots, doing what our brains tells us to do with the help of pheromones, hormones etc. I base this on 3 things:
1 There is no scientific proof suggesting we have souls
2 Almost everything we feel can be explained by chemicals in our head (and other parts
3 I'm an atheist therefore i believe the excistance of souls would also open up a possibility for the excistance of deities.
What do you think + arguments for your opinion.
Have Fun!
(remember, this is a philosofical argument. No hating on other people for their believes etc)
Excuse me for my crappy English.
but I sure don't! ;P
Pretty much the same answer, our minds are a product of neurological responses to external stimuli. Our experiences determine who we are and what we become. The answer to 'why?' doesn't have to instantly go to the mythical, I'll admit that I don't have all the answers but jumping to metaphysical conclusions like a 'soul' without evidence just shows a element of delusion. Bear in mind, if I get some evidence of some otherworldy reason to why we're here, I'll repent, but right now I follow the physical and the logical.RocksW said: