Do you believe people are generally good?
- Thread starter Brownie80
- Start date
Hence, "just as good as everything else".SamTheNewb said:
I was being figurative. To be clearer and, honestly, more accurate, in terms of universal good, I believe no one and nothing can be good or evil, or anywhere in between the two. The use of "universal good" in this case was mostly to differentiate from the next part about culturally constructed morality.
I think good or evil are constructs, it is more about self serving intentions. Relatively good people have in our past been ordered to do horrible things. Or done them under stress. I am not just thinking about Nazi's I am also thinking of the atrocities committed in Abu Ghraib. Or aspects of Sharia law.
That being said it is sometimes hard to argue for 100% moral relativism. Issues like slavery, torture, abuse and exploitation is difficult to be ascribed to a reasonable motive. It is a difficult question, but I don't think humans can be held to extreme absolutes, we are too hypocritical.
That being said it is sometimes hard to argue for 100% moral relativism. Issues like slavery, torture, abuse and exploitation is difficult to be ascribed to a reasonable motive. It is a difficult question, but I don't think humans can be held to extreme absolutes, we are too hypocritical.
People are inherently self interested, and to most benefit ones self, it has been come to by consensus by the majority that you need to do benefit for the wider community in which you rely upon for your own interest. This is always contests to the details but the extreme Libertarianism of Ayn Rand is viewed with laughable skepticism by many who hold the view that an institution, such as Government needs to exist if people are to be looked after within a society.
However clear anomalies exist, which are normally surrounding the idea of Nations, where your sense of responsibility in order to maintain your overall better standard of living, are stretched and throughout history all that can be seen is a strange looking, maybe even slightly different colour, or different style of hat, individual who may take your land, women and resources... therefore violence is the course of action.
I don't believe in Good or Evil, they are just terms that we allot to people who preform certain actions, those which we would want done to ourselves are good actions, whereas those we would not want done to ourselves are evil... or somewhere nearer either side of the spectrum. Due to the construct of enemies, actions we would normally consider evil, done to an enemy is seen as a good, due to the fact you are protecting your group... up to a point. Violence and pain for the sake of it, has often been seen as unnecessary and therefore becomes evil once more.
The truth is we do what is necessary to survive, and enjoy doing so to the best of our ability. We aren't fundamentally good, but self interested... but to have your own interests in mind, we need to be mindful of everyone else around us in the long run.
This is realism, as opposed to cynicism. Cynicism would say that people are dicks because they are.
Realism would say humans are dicks when it suits them and they can get away with it as that's what best suits their interests. Equally they do good because its in their interests in the sense, do unto other what you would want done to you. Not a radical teaching of a genius or a God... simple logic that mankind agreed with at heart at many different locations around the world without cross cultural pollination to aid it.
For obvious reasons I would disagree with Immanuel Kant as I don't think there is a single action done without self interest in mind because encoded into our DNA is our sense of morality, and we merely expand it into our more complex social world... no Moral Imperative exists external to the human body, and even what seem like the most selfless actions make humans feel good, the physical positive feedback which encourages such actions.
However clear anomalies exist, which are normally surrounding the idea of Nations, where your sense of responsibility in order to maintain your overall better standard of living, are stretched and throughout history all that can be seen is a strange looking, maybe even slightly different colour, or different style of hat, individual who may take your land, women and resources... therefore violence is the course of action.
I don't believe in Good or Evil, they are just terms that we allot to people who preform certain actions, those which we would want done to ourselves are good actions, whereas those we would not want done to ourselves are evil... or somewhere nearer either side of the spectrum. Due to the construct of enemies, actions we would normally consider evil, done to an enemy is seen as a good, due to the fact you are protecting your group... up to a point. Violence and pain for the sake of it, has often been seen as unnecessary and therefore becomes evil once more.
The truth is we do what is necessary to survive, and enjoy doing so to the best of our ability. We aren't fundamentally good, but self interested... but to have your own interests in mind, we need to be mindful of everyone else around us in the long run.
This is realism, as opposed to cynicism. Cynicism would say that people are dicks because they are.
Realism would say humans are dicks when it suits them and they can get away with it as that's what best suits their interests. Equally they do good because its in their interests in the sense, do unto other what you would want done to you. Not a radical teaching of a genius or a God... simple logic that mankind agreed with at heart at many different locations around the world without cross cultural pollination to aid it.
For obvious reasons I would disagree with Immanuel Kant as I don't think there is a single action done without self interest in mind because encoded into our DNA is our sense of morality, and we merely expand it into our more complex social world... no Moral Imperative exists external to the human body, and even what seem like the most selfless actions make humans feel good, the physical positive feedback which encourages such actions.
I can only speak from personal experience, and my personal experience leads me to believe that people are, all philosophical debates about the meaning of the term "good" aside.
For about half a year, an unforeseen misfortune drove me into homelessness. During that time, the only reason I survived long enough to find my feet again was because of the kindness of strangers. I do mean absolute strangers. I was hundreds of miles from my hometown, and people who didn't know me from a hole in the ground- people who ran the risk of my being a dangerous/malicious individual simply by trusting me- helped me recover myself and establish roots again. They did this at great personal and financial expense to themselves, despite having nothing to gain by doing so.
All of this was in texas, no less, a state regarded as one of the least friendly in existence.
People are indeed selfish, but when the chips are down they seldom have any problem with helping others if they and theirs are already secure. Coming together in times of adversity is one of humanity's few prevailing positive traits, after all.
so, my life experience kinda forces me to be optimistic about the whole thing. XD
For about half a year, an unforeseen misfortune drove me into homelessness. During that time, the only reason I survived long enough to find my feet again was because of the kindness of strangers. I do mean absolute strangers. I was hundreds of miles from my hometown, and people who didn't know me from a hole in the ground- people who ran the risk of my being a dangerous/malicious individual simply by trusting me- helped me recover myself and establish roots again. They did this at great personal and financial expense to themselves, despite having nothing to gain by doing so.
All of this was in texas, no less, a state regarded as one of the least friendly in existence.
People are indeed selfish, but when the chips are down they seldom have any problem with helping others if they and theirs are already secure. Coming together in times of adversity is one of humanity's few prevailing positive traits, after all.
so, my life experience kinda forces me to be optimistic about the whole thing. XD
I personally think that as they start life and mature, that they are pretty neutral. However, they are expected to be good, and to a certain extent, everyone is, but only because they are required to.
The other, slightly lesser but still prominent fraction of the population is inherantly good, but only because they can help it, not because they have to be.
The other, slightly lesser but still prominent fraction of the population is inherantly good, but only because they can help it, not because they have to be.