Do you find the Confederate Flag offensive?

[Addicted Muffin]

I dont find the flag or what is stands for offensive...it's an important part of American history weather we like it or not...

what i do hate are the people who worship it like it's the god damn bible...with all that "the south will rise again" bull shit

 

[duchaked]

no I don't find it offensive
yeah I live in the south, not the deep south but still

it's not a symbol of racism and hatred and such
altho admittedly more often than not the people who do fly it around might just fit that profile

but I tend to defend it seeing how a lotta people in the north still look at the southern states as confederates...which is totally insane

 

[Troublesome Lagomorph]

Not in the slightest. Its just a flag of a short lived country, nothing else.

 

[Roscoe_A]

When I see the confederate flag in the South or at a friends house who has Southern roots I could care less. But it's the people who hang the flag who are born and raised in Wisconsin thinking that they are true Southern are the ones who bother me.

Don't get me wrong I'm born and raised Wisconsin and no where near being Southern. But, I got a friend who I've known all my life who thinks he is from the South and growing up with him and his family I know that he is no where near southern...thats when the confederate flag bothers me.

 

[almostgold]

Nope. Not at all, don't see why it should. Just good ol' country folks having fun

 

[duchaked]

America supported slavery when the American flag was made. Where's the difference? It's not like the north wasn't racist at the time anyway.

lol they sure were! it didn't even begin as a proslavery vs antislavery conflict anyway, just happened to work out that way (Honest Abe had the right idea tho, for winning the civil war and all)

 

[jackpipsam]

I don't even know what that flag is.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Yes. It symbolizes a time when our region (The South, I'm a Floridian) engaged in one of the most barbaric human rights abuses in modern history and fought a war with their own countrymen in order to perpetuate said abuses. All the nonsense about state's rights is just retarded historical revisionism, the only right the Confederacy was fighting for was the right to buy and sell people as property which isn't a right at all.

If the South was so concerned about State's rights they wouldn't have enacted the Fugitive Slave Act which tramples all over the State rights of the Northern States.

Actually, the North imposing those tariffs was a bigger driving force. It crippled the South's trade with Britain.

 

[Goofguy]

I'm not offended by it. I think one of the biggest issues with the flag is that the wrong people (and groups of people) use it as their symbol.

Look at the swastika. It is a symbol rooted deeply in Indian religions but because it was also the symbol of the evil Nazis, it has become taboo.

So the moral of the story is any f***ed up group of people can corrupt a good symbol once they use it as a symbol to represent their messed up platform.

 

[Sandytimeman]

I think the flag is actually kinda cool looking. But I dunno how much of that is just Taboo.

I think that if I was black, I'd probably have a problem with it. I guess its probably why no Indians use the Swastika anymore. (to my knowledge I could be wrong of course)

 

[Treaos Serrare]

to some it is a representation of being a rebel, being rambunctious and raucous
and to others it is a reminder of a time when bigotry and hatred were rampant ignorance was the norm and being different was fatal

 

[EllEzDee]

Fun fact: Not everyone in the south was a racist hick back in the day.

Exactly. They're just racist hicks now!

 

[DugMachine]

Fun fact: Not everyone in the south was a racist hick back in the day.

Exactly. They're just racist hicks now!

Glad I have a sense of humor... :| haha...

 

[Bocaj2000]

Yep. I find it offensive. Do you think black southerners fly the confederate flag? No. Because it is a symbol of a heritage...but that heritage is about leaving the union in order to preserve slavery.

If you want to honor Mississippi, fly the Mississippi state flag. Why honor the battle flag of the pro-slavery south?

Why does everyone think the civil war was just about slavery? Abraham Lincoln didn't declare that they were fighting against slavery until well into the war. In fact, he said that the south could keep their slaves should they rejoin the union.

The civil war was not "PRO vs ANTI slavery" it was about the unfair treatment of the federal and state courts in the south. They were not given a voice in government. This, prohabition, and the election of Abraham Lincoln (Who was a great president, but the south practically had ZERO say in his election.)Slavery was wrong, but the confederate flag is NOT a pro-slavery symbol! The south was treated unfairly, they rebelled. Slavery WAS an issue that helped fuel the tensions between the North and South but it was NOT the basis of the war.

That being said: Slavery is terrible. Rebelling against oppression is not. It's a double edged sword. It depends on the person flying the flag. Hell, Thor's symbol used to be a swatstika.

The Civil War was not about the oppression of the South by the North...perhaps that's what they teach you in your high schools but that's not accurate. The Civil War was about a lot of things, and those lots of things were bound up in slavery as a symbolic practice. The Civil War was about States Rights vs. Federal Rights...and what put a spotlight on that struggle? Slavery. This is why every time a territory was to become a state there were fights and wranglings over if it would be a slave state or a free state...this is why pressure was put on to make sure all the states were balanced in number slave or free--rather than by some other rubric.

There were a lot of issues, import vs export tariffs. Agriculture vs Industry...all sorts of things...but the "peculiar institution" of slavery was integral to those issues.

Everytime a white southerner (or wannabe southerner) waves that flag and says it is about heritage and honoring the south's resistance to "northern oppression"--remember that black people are also southerners and that flag is about honoring the south's continued desire to oppress the black people of that state.

ETA: Were there racists in the North? Certainly--there still are. But there is a difference between racism and owning someone as property.

thank you for the only thing on this thread that I agree with.

 

[mjc0961]

I'm from Ohio and My moms family is from Kentucky and my Dads from Mississippi and I'm pround of my southern heritage. Recently I baught a large Confederate flag at a Flea market and hung it on the ceiling of my room. I go by the motto heritage not hate. I have a few black friends who arnt bothered by it but a white friend of mine thinks its offensive and hates me now. So do you find this as a sybol of hate or a proud heritage?

A flag hanging in your bedroom, no that's not offensive. They are a guest in your home, and if they don't like something, they are free to leave. And once they have left your home, they don't have to see your flag anymore because it's not in public view, so it's really not offensive in a way that people should complain about.
But someone walking around in that shirt featured in your avatar... That is offensive, but only in its stupidity as it's the wearer who would need a history lesson. Upon taking one, they'd learn that it was a symbol used by a group of people fighting to keep slavery in practice, which is exactly why anyone would find that shirt, and flag, offensive in the first place.

That shirt is basically this [http://www.lushtshirts.co.uk/images/products/with-stupid.jpg], but not quite as direct. And on a note related to the stupidity of that shirt:

The Civil War was not about the oppression of the South by the North...perhaps that's what they teach you in your high schools but that's not accurate. The Civil War was about a lot of things, and those lots of things were bound up in slavery as a symbolic practice. The Civil War was about States Rights vs. Federal Rights...and what put a spotlight on that struggle? Slavery. This is why every time a territory was to become a state there were fights and wranglings over if it would be a slave state or a free state...this is why pressure was put on to make sure all the states were balanced in number slave or free--rather than by some other rubric.

There were a lot of issues, import vs export tariffs. Agriculture vs Industry...all sorts of things...but the "peculiar institution" of slavery was integral to those issues.

Everytime a white southerner (or wannabe southerner) waves that flag and says it is about heritage and honoring the south's resistance to "northern oppression"--remember that black people are also southerners and that flag is about honoring the south's continued desire to oppress the black people of that state.

ETA: Were there racists in the North? Certainly--there still are. But there is a difference between racism and owning someone as property.

Spoiler: Excellent post, sir.

North was just as racist as we were though...

I think it's more accurate to say that the North was slightly less racist. Still pretty damn racist, but not racist enough to treat blacks as slaves anymore.

 

[Damien Granz]

I'm from Ohio and My moms family is from Kentucky and my Dads from Mississippi and I'm proud of my southern heritage. Recently I bought a large Confederate flag at a Flea market and hung it on the ceiling of my room. I go by the motto heritage not hate. I have a few black friends who aren't bothered by it but a white friend of mine thinks its offensive and hates me now. So do you find this as a symbol of hate or a proud heritage?


EDIT: To be fair as I said I also have a American flag hanging right next to it to honor my ancestors who were killed on both sides

The flag does more than just represent a southern heritage, it represents a specific movement and time, and probably not the best one to be proud of necessarily. Which isn't to say that you should in any way be ashamed of your heritage, but it might not be their greatest moment to fly a symbol of.

The flag itself doesn't offend me, to be honest, but it does carry a lot of historical weight to it, which would be hard to entirely dismiss. The flag strongly represents a time when a group of people were dissatisfied with not being given their full way tried to seceded from the country; a major reason for the secession was that southern landowners didn't feel represented in congress because their slaves didn't count as much as freemen when determining congressional votes, so they decided to violently try and take half the nation with them.

To try to divorce the Southern Confederate Flag from this notion ignores a lot of history and is far more offensive than the flag itself could be. It gets more frustrating when some people, not including you necessarily, fly this flag, ignore that history, then further rebuke less violent dissonance than the flag represents with rhetoric such as "If you don't like how the country's going and don't obey what's going on 100% you're a terrorist, and get the f- out.". If you try to steal their property with force of arms the irony is usually lost too.

To be honest, while the American flag doesn't represent the south exclusively, it does do a somewhat good job of representing it, if you don't mind it being a representation of the north too. I'm not an expert on state flags, but you might find some of them too, if you want ways to fly your heritage's colors without the same negative connections.

In either case, you're free to fly whatever flag you want, but just please don't ask people to ignore the history around it, and if they do get offended, try to be patient and reasonable, within some reason. If they're trying to force you to get rid of it, they've well beyond overstepped their boundaries.

 

[XandNobody]

My opinion? If you like the south for the reason of 'states rights', then why in the hell are you flying the flag of a confederation? Shouldn't you be flying, I don't know, your states flag? Doesn't have the historical connection to slavery, and by your own words, should do well enough to get your point across.

 

[G-X]

As a citizen of the United States, I do find the Confederate flag offensive. It's not even about slavery or anything. It's a symbol of rebellion. The flag says "fuck America, let's be our own country." And I, as an American, am offended by that.

 

[Stevanchez]

America supported slavery when the American flag was made. Where's the difference? It's not like the north wasn't racist at the time anyway.

That's a huge, if not completely false, exaggeration. No two states were the same in their ideals or laws. In fact, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Maine abolished slavery from the beginning of their creation(all no later than 1785). Other states like New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, Vermont, and New Hampshire all looked down on slavery and therefore had very few slaves or none at all and many abolished slavery very early in their history.
Were they racist? Definately(by today's standards anyway), but not all of America supported slavery or even had slaves at the nation's beginning. Slavery had divided the nation from the very start(for proof, see Three-Fifths Compromise in 1787).