Do you really owe your parents anything?

giles

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I would say it depends. If I don't earn much, I wouldn't send them money (of course my parents wouldn't even take it anyway).
However, if, say I won 5 million in the lottery, I'd feel like I failed as a person if I didn't give at least 1 million to my family without a second thought.
 

Remus

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Pete Oddly said:
Remus said:
Pete Oddly said:
I owe my parents everything.
Saying it and acting upon it, two different interpretations of the question presented. I submit to you that the question was in regard to an actual, calculable debt that you are required to pay, not simply " I owe them for giving me life and raising me", which I still believe is a fallacy. Do lion cubs owe their parents, do bears, giraffes? Owing parents for doing what's expected of them is a purely human construct, and like so many, doesn't make sense when put under scrutiny.
That is a sadly inhuman way of looking at things.
If you mean Inhuman [http://marvel.wikia.com/Inhumans_%28Race%29], then that gives me an evolutionary advantage, in which case I thank you for the compliment. But honestly, what is humane about foregoing your own needs by deciding you owe your parents millions of dollars for feeding and clothing you over 18 years? The level of inflation and job growth, the infrastructure, does not exist to support that level of debt generationally. If you hit it big, sell a startup, win the lottery, sure, spread the wealth. But if not, and you're just barely scraping by like the rest of us, then you owe your parents nothing and there should be no expectation of payment for them. This is a purely black and white view of the question - do you or do you not owe your parents monetarily for the years spent raising you, and is there an honest expectation that they will receive any form of payment beyond occasional help, birthdays, holidays, assistance with retirement or burial? Will they get the money back for food, shelter and clothes, plus a value of time spent, or won't they?
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

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May 15, 2010
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I don't see a "debt" as it were, legally as my parents did do what was legally required of them putting a roof overhead, food on the table, clothes on my back. They also did go beyond the "required by law" bounds and attempted to instill values and impart common sense and wisdom of their own experiences which some sank in and some took years and many errors to understand. I also was blessed with a good set of parents, grandparents and outlying family friends who all contributed a lot to my formative years.
Beyond my legally adult age, my parents have continued to support me, sometimes financially, sometimes just moral or emotional support. I feel sometimes I do owe my parents a lot, that I can never truly pay back to them. Instead I'm trying to pay forward my familial blessings to my daughter with mixed results. And I do a lot to help my parents any time they ask me for it, and offer it whenever I get the chance. I don't see it really as what I "owe" them, just that it is right for me to be there as they've been there for me my whole life.
Again I say I'm very lucky I have the family and friends that I do, that not everyone has what I do. If I'm privileged, fine with me. I feel I'm blessed, more than privileged and I appreciate what I have and recognize that its not commonly shared by most folks.
Even with my "privilege", I still haven't been spared from being mostly poor in my adult life and having to learn to live on the low end. I don't see what my parents have as my own, nor do I feel they owe me anything when they pass on (and I hope that day is far off).
 

A_Parked_Car

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I greatly dislike my parents, so the second I have enough money I am moving out and never looking back. I don't really feel like I owe them anything. They decided to have kids and therefore they knew, or should have known, the costs involved. I never developed any kind of familial bond, so the entire concept is rather alien to me.
 

Ambitiousmould

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Apr 22, 2012
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I certainly would not go as far as to say it's "completely fucked up".

What is fucked up is turning away from your parents if they come to you for help (unless they were shit parents). I feel like I do owe my parents. They created me, for one thing, then raised and supported me even though I have never really been able to help back, besides the household chores I do. They are allowing me to continue to live at their house, eat their food and use their utilities, even though I use more internet and electricity than they do, all through University and aren't asking me for a penny, even when I offered to pay board. They aren't even particularly well off, they are just comfortable.

Even though they don't think I owe them, and would never come to me for (especially financial) help unless they were in real trouble, I feel like I owe them a great deal, and one day, providing I am successful enough, I hope and want to pay them back.

I owe them so much more then mere money. At current I try to do anything they ask of me, and when I get the chance, cover the occasional thing money-wise. (for example, I recently got some printing done for my Dad at a design shop I frequent, and when he forgot to pay me back, I chose not to bring it up). As a sort of 'the least I can do' type thing.

I think the main way, however, that I will be helping them will be far in the future, when they are in old age and I have to help them out. The whole thing will end up having gone full circle, at some point.
 

spartan231490

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Kolby Jack said:
spartan231490 said:
Kolby Jack said:
Chaos Isaac said:
Pfft, dude, if your parents even cared for you decently and didn't drop you off in the dumpster, yeah, you owe them something.

Sure, maybe you don't have to financially support them, but to owe nothing to the people who created you?

That's just asshattery.
spartan231490 said:
Yes, of course you owe your parents something. You owe them your life, as they gave it to you. You also owe them the not inconsiderable cost of raising and providing for you.
I didn't ask to be created. It was thrust upon me. By their thrusting... *guh*

I'm all for gratitude, and I think repaying a favor, no matter how big or small, is a fantastic thing to do. But I emphatically stress the difference between a favor, and a deal. Favors are done with no expectation of reciprocation. Deals are not.

But bearing a child and raising it are neither; it's a responsibility. If you have a child, you damn well better take care of it or you are not really being a parent. Even if you go above and beyond with what that child needs, all you are doing is fulfilling that duty to that child. Soldiers don't get paid more for earning the Medal of Honor. Parents don't deserve more from their children for good parenting.
Never said better parents deserve more, I said all parents deserve something. Frankly, that you could even argue against that is horrifying to me. What perverse logic you must use to justify owing nothing to the beings that created and raised you. And as for your "obligation" argument. You have an obligation to show up to work, that soldier has obligation to go where's told, but they still get paid for fulfilling that obligation. Just because it's an obligation, doesn't mean that you deserve nothing for it. It is, in fact, irrelevant to the discussion. Parents still brought you into the world and raised you, and you owe them a great deal for that.
You sign up for your job. At least in America, you volunteer to be a soldier. It is YOUR choice. There is no obligation beyond that, only doing what you already agreed to do.

Again, I didn't ask to be born. I'm glad I was, but it's still not something I agreed to. As a child, you're stuck with your parents/guardians for good reason, but you still don't have a choice. As long as your parents are able to earn their own living, to live their own lives, you shouldn't be expected to provide them anything. If you want to, by all means, go ahead. But that's your CHOICE. It's not an obligation.
So what? You didn't ask to be born. It still happened and you still damn well owe your parents for it. Without them, you wouldn't even be alive. If you don't see an obligation in that, then your moral compass is so fucked up, I'll be shocked if you can find the parking lot.
 

spartan231490

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BiscuitTrouser said:
spartan231490 said:
Never said better parents deserve more, I said all parents deserve something. Frankly, that you could even argue against that is horrifying to me. What perverse logic you must use to justify owing nothing to the beings that created and raised you. And as for your "obligation" argument. You have an obligation to show up to work, that soldier has obligation to go where's told, but they still get paid for fulfilling that obligation. Just because it's an obligation, doesn't mean that you deserve nothing for it. It is, in fact, irrelevant to the discussion. Parents still brought you into the world and raised you, and you owe them a great deal for that.
You implied I owed my dad for not being a murderer or a child abuser. THATS weird. You dont reward people just for not violating other peoples basic human rights, especially when that person made the direct choice to create the life they have power over. To make a life and mistreat it is horrific, to NOT mistreat it is the bare minimum requirement when you decide to have a child. What reward does my father get for not rubbing horse urine into my eyes every day? Is it different for the one he gets for not removing my left foot for sport? Do we tally every horrific infringement they DIDNT commit and thank them personally for each one?

I love my father for what he did above and beyond the basic legal requirement when you CHOOSE to make a child.

I mean fuck by your logic i owe deep thanks to every adult child me spent any time alone with for not skinning me alive on the spot. How do i possibly repay these people for not abusing at a child? Sure my father had more opportunities but these people mustered the same decency as him too, so what do i owe them?

This relationship is entirely one sided, no one chooses their parents, parents can choose to have their kids (in most cases). Kids can look back and wish someone else raised them less abusively and know they had no control in being raised by an alcoholic abuser. Parents cant use the same excuse for the financial and temporal price a kid takes. They could have just used protection.
Nice straw man, but not what I said. I said that you owe your parents for bringing you into this world and caring for you. Without them, you wouldn't be alive, and if you don't see an obligation in that, your moral compasss is so fucked up, I'll be shocked if you can find the parking lot.
 

BiscuitTrouser

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spartan231490 said:
Nice straw man, but not what I said. I said that you owe your parents for bringing you into this world and caring for you. Without them, you wouldn't be alive, and if you don't see an obligation in that, your moral compasss is so fucked up, I'll be shocked if you can find the parking lot.
The only reason I wouldnt be alive under their care is if :

A: They decided to not have a child or
B: They were so horrifically abusive I died.

Again, I really dont see a point in being thankful for lack of B. Everyone I spent time with as a child managed this, should I still be equally thankful?

I do love my parents, and I do owe them very much, but not for basic shit like feeding and clothing me, keeping your kid alive isnt an impressive feat, and no parent deserves anything for not letting their child die. Seriously. Thats the bare minimum.

Sure im kinda thankful for A, but anyone can do A, i could have been anyones kids. And its outright ILLEGAL not to do B. Like they would be arrested for it, and rightly so.

Chances are you do owe your parents, since parents on the whole tend to go above and beyond. But a parent fulfilling the same duties to you as any pet owner owes to an animal, thats not particularly impressive, thats extremely basic.

Also I dont take kindly to the personal attacks, you can go hand out medals to everyone who didnt starve their child to death but personally I dont see it as that amazing. GOOD parents deserve medals, and I personally feel like I have some of the best parents I could of had, and for THAT im grateful. If my father did the bare legal minimum and nothing else, no love or affection or teaching, id owe him exactly jack squat.

Its wrong to say I dont think I owe the people who raised me my kindness, goodwill and time for doing the same for me when they didnt legally need to. I dont owe them for the food, or the shelter or the other costs that every adult should be aware of before they have a child and is illegal not to provide. Children are a life decision, not a long term loan for cash. Although to be fair youve convinced me I owe my mother for carrying me for 9 months and living that whole time with my best health interests in mind, the physical act of birth was pretty traumatic just to create me.

But thats not really what the OP meant, he means holding basic human needs like "I give you water and food so you must obey me!", which is stupid because its illegal and monstrous to not do that.

EDIT: Post too long
 

Kolby Jack

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Apr 29, 2011
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spartan231490 said:
Kolby Jack said:
spartan231490 said:
Kolby Jack said:
Chaos Isaac said:
Pfft, dude, if your parents even cared for you decently and didn't drop you off in the dumpster, yeah, you owe them something.

Sure, maybe you don't have to financially support them, but to owe nothing to the people who created you?

That's just asshattery.
spartan231490 said:
Yes, of course you owe your parents something. You owe them your life, as they gave it to you. You also owe them the not inconsiderable cost of raising and providing for you.
I didn't ask to be created. It was thrust upon me. By their thrusting... *guh*

I'm all for gratitude, and I think repaying a favor, no matter how big or small, is a fantastic thing to do. But I emphatically stress the difference between a favor, and a deal. Favors are done with no expectation of reciprocation. Deals are not.

But bearing a child and raising it are neither; it's a responsibility. If you have a child, you damn well better take care of it or you are not really being a parent. Even if you go above and beyond with what that child needs, all you are doing is fulfilling that duty to that child. Soldiers don't get paid more for earning the Medal of Honor. Parents don't deserve more from their children for good parenting.
Never said better parents deserve more, I said all parents deserve something. Frankly, that you could even argue against that is horrifying to me. What perverse logic you must use to justify owing nothing to the beings that created and raised you. And as for your "obligation" argument. You have an obligation to show up to work, that soldier has obligation to go where's told, but they still get paid for fulfilling that obligation. Just because it's an obligation, doesn't mean that you deserve nothing for it. It is, in fact, irrelevant to the discussion. Parents still brought you into the world and raised you, and you owe them a great deal for that.
You sign up for your job. At least in America, you volunteer to be a soldier. It is YOUR choice. There is no obligation beyond that, only doing what you already agreed to do.

Again, I didn't ask to be born. I'm glad I was, but it's still not something I agreed to. As a child, you're stuck with your parents/guardians for good reason, but you still don't have a choice. As long as your parents are able to earn their own living, to live their own lives, you shouldn't be expected to provide them anything. If you want to, by all means, go ahead. But that's your CHOICE. It's not an obligation.
So what? You didn't ask to be born. It still happened and you still damn well owe your parents for it. Without them, you wouldn't even be alive. If you don't see an obligation in that, then your moral compass is so fucked up, I'll be shocked if you can find the parking lot.
Why would I need a moral compass to find a parking lot?

It isn't like my parents set out to create me specifically. They wanted to make a life, not my life. My life, all of it, is my own. Obligations, no matter to whom, just don't make sense to me. When I want to express my gratitude to my parents for raising me well, I say "thank you, Mom and Dad, for doing a good job raising me." That's it. Gratitude expressed. Anything more I do for them is me being nice, not me owing them.
 

Jesterscup

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I'm really resisting a huge ranty "check your privilege" post....

Do you "owe" your parents? for being parents? perhaps not, but I would hope that in most cases these are loving caring people that go out of their way to help you if they can. Appreciate it. Often it's not just when you're in childhood either, if you become a parent you may find that they help and support you, providing a framework that allows you to be a better parent yourself.

You'd be surprised how many people take this for granted, it's the status quo, it's always been like that. But take it from someone who doesn't have this, it's a very special and precious thing.....

Feel free to rant & debate whether you "owe" them, or you have some obligation to them or not. but you know if they are not abusive, drug addicts, drunks etc... acknowledge that you really do have something there.
 

Link_to_Future

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Nov 19, 2009
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So, only skimmed OP. Take that as you will.

I love my parents. Even beyond the fact they birthed me and raised me. They're actually pretty cool people and my level of education would have been difficult if not impossible without them.

Is there an obligation to help them get older. I dunno. But I genuinely like these guys. As they near the end of their paths, I want to make the ground softer. Because they are cool and I love them.

The question here probably pertains more to people who hate their family but support them BECAUSE they are family. I can't understand that. Because everyone in my family receives the same treatment and respect as a good friend.

Yay fortunate upbringing! :)
 

jklinders

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Sep 21, 2010
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I think the concept of "owing your parents" something is a bit of a holdover from when people had a fuckton of kids who could share and divide the work of caring for them when they were too old to care for themselves. In modern western society it is usually less necessary to think about it this way as social services do a passable (not great) job of providing for the elderly.

The perception of an obligation I feel, is a holdover from the notion that sooner or later everyone needs help to get care.

My mother is going to get what help I can give her. Not because I owe her anything but because she is my mother and the only family I have left around here.

the moment we start talking about debts owed we are transforming family relations into something else entirely. That is a pretty unfortunate way of looking at it. That's all I got on this for the time being.
 

carnex

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Jan 9, 2008
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Your parents will need someone most likely when they get old to help them arround. Will you do it is completely a persons decision. And there are so many factors that go into that decision.

My feeling on that is simple. You either feel the need to help your parents or not. And if not there is something really bad in your history or there is something really wrong with you.

@Kolby Jack

Comparing your love for parents and moral obligation to obligation to law is messed up. Not to mention that they had an option to dump you the day you were born. What your friend did was his choice and I don't know their circumstances so I can't form a cohesive opinion on it but I don't see it as anything anyone should be hung on. Perhaps there are thing there that are, but his shipping of money is not.
 

CrystalShadow

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Apr 11, 2009
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Well, it's a fascinating idea, but your parents didn't 'owe' you, anything either.

Sure, society has created rules and such, and it's frowned upon, but by the reasoning you're using here, they would've been well within their rights to just abandon you somewhere to fend for yourself the moment you were born.

It's not an obligation, no, but it's about being a decent, caring human being at the end of the day.

The young can't look after themselves very well, and neither can the elderly.

These days we have laws and social security and pensions and the like, but that's all very recent stuff.

To be quite honest, the expectation that children look after their parents is a hold-over from a time before welfare, and pensions and other such social niceties (which amount to shifting the burden of caring for the weak and vulnerable from their own family to society at large.)

Without all these society wide safety nets, not wanting to look after your parents is akin to leaving them to die when they get too old to care for themselves.
And if that sounds harsh, that's because it is. But once upon a time, that's the fate that awaited you if your kids didn't want to look after you when you got old.
Or of course, if you didn't have kids to look after you. In which case... You might get lucky and get taken in by a relative... But... If not, well... Too bad. You can't care for yourself, so you die.

This reminds me of the saying people like to throw about "The world doesn't owe you a living." - Which is true, perhaps. But the immediate corollary of that statement is "I don't owe the world anything for being alive."
Those statements go hand in hand.

All this is extremely harsh, and I don't like to think the world is like that, but some people do. And, well... That's too bad. All I can say is, if you don't feel inclined to help people when they are struggling, don't be surprised if no-one helps you either when things go bad. (Which can happen very, very, easily.)
 

Pete Oddly

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Remus said:
Pete Oddly said:
Remus said:
Pete Oddly said:
I owe my parents everything.
Saying it and acting upon it, two different interpretations of the question presented. I submit to you that the question was in regard to an actual, calculable debt that you are required to pay, not simply " I owe them for giving me life and raising me", which I still believe is a fallacy. Do lion cubs owe their parents, do bears, giraffes? Owing parents for doing what's expected of them is a purely human construct, and like so many, doesn't make sense when put under scrutiny.
That is a sadly inhuman way of looking at things.
If you mean Inhuman [http://marvel.wikia.com/Inhumans_%28Race%29], then that gives me an evolutionary advantage, in which case I thank you for the compliment. But honestly, what is humane about foregoing your own needs by deciding you owe your parents millions of dollars for feeding and clothing you over 18 years? The level of inflation and job growth, the infrastructure, does not exist to support that level of debt generationally. If you hit it big, sell a startup, win the lottery, sure, spread the wealth. But if not, and you're just barely scraping by like the rest of us, then you owe your parents nothing and there should be no expectation of payment for them. This is a purely black and white view of the question - do you or do you not owe your parents monetarily for the years spent raising you, and is there an honest expectation that they will receive any form of payment beyond occasional help, birthdays, holidays, assistance with retirement or burial? Will they get the money back for food, shelter and clothes, plus a value of time spent, or won't they?
I pity your mindset.
 

Remus

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Nov 24, 2012
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Pete Oddly said:
Remus said:
Pete Oddly said:
Remus said:
Pete Oddly said:
I owe my parents everything.
Saying it and acting upon it, two different interpretations of the question presented. I submit to you that the question was in regard to an actual, calculable debt that you are required to pay, not simply " I owe them for giving me life and raising me", which I still believe is a fallacy. Do lion cubs owe their parents, do bears, giraffes? Owing parents for doing what's expected of them is a purely human construct, and like so many, doesn't make sense when put under scrutiny.
That is a sadly inhuman way of looking at things.
If you mean Inhuman [http://marvel.wikia.com/Inhumans_%28Race%29], then that gives me an evolutionary advantage, in which case I thank you for the compliment. But honestly, what is humane about foregoing your own needs by deciding you owe your parents millions of dollars for feeding and clothing you over 18 years? The level of inflation and job growth, the infrastructure, does not exist to support that level of debt generationally. If you hit it big, sell a startup, win the lottery, sure, spread the wealth. But if not, and you're just barely scraping by like the rest of us, then you owe your parents nothing and there should be no expectation of payment for them. This is a purely black and white view of the question - do you or do you not owe your parents monetarily for the years spent raising you, and is there an honest expectation that they will receive any form of payment beyond occasional help, birthdays, holidays, assistance with retirement or burial? Will they get the money back for food, shelter and clothes, plus a value of time spent, or won't they?
I pity your mindset.
And yet you did not answer the question.
 

Fox12

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Jun 6, 2013
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Well, that depends. If you're parents were fucking inside a port-a-potty at the county fair and the condom broke, and the only thing they ever did for you was decide not to have the abortion, then no, I don't think you owe them a great deal. They're not really your parents, they're just the people who gave birth to you.

But, if you're lucky enough to have two stable adult parents who raised you into a healthy adult (or tried to) then I think you should show some love and respect. I don't consider family to be people who are blood related to you. They are people with whom you share a bond. I have blood relatives that I would never care to help, and I have friends I would die for. The second group I would consider family, not the first. I only give loyalty to the people I choose. The fact that I choose to love my parents and siblings is because of my healthy relationship with them, not because I "owe" them something. I've known some frankly evil parents who destroyed their childrens lives.
 

VanQ

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Oct 23, 2009
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You don't have an obligation to your parents just like they don't have an obligation to you once you're old enough to support yourself.

However, it's a sign of a healthy family to support each other as much as possible. I have lent money to my parents when they needed it most and they have done the same for me when I needed it. We've saved each others' hides from the nasty debt collectors many times just by being there for each other when it mattered.

You don't owe it to anyone, but you should still be there for your loved ones when they need it.