Actually the Japanese idea of Orcs and Ogres draws from the ancient Oni folklore of Japan.The Philistine said:
Which holds true for even DragonQuest, which also draws inspiration from traditional Japanese folklore.
Do you think anime should have more hot dwarf/orc girls
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Which holds true for even DragonQuest, which also draws inspiration from traditional Japanese folklore.
If we want to go down that route for orc/ogres then these two would fall under that category. Both are described as Oni in Re:Zero.KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:Actually the Japanese idea of Orcs and Ogres draws from the ancient Oni folklore of Japan.
Which holds true for even DragonQuest, which also draws inspiration from traditional Japanese folklore.
Something like this hopefullygritch said:If we want to go down that route for orc/ogres then these two would fall under that category. Both are described as Oni in Re:Zero.KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:Actually the Japanese idea of Orcs and Ogres draws from the ancient Oni folklore of Japan.
Which holds true for even DragonQuest, which also draws inspiration from traditional Japanese folklore.
Don't really imagine that's what the OP had in mind with "hot orc/dwarves girls" in anime though.
No, because it's going to be absolutely pathetic. They're going to take something from Tolken and then weed out all originality. No muscles for either, no beards on dwarves (Though to be fair the entire world doesn't have the guts to do that. I WANTED BEARDED DWARF LADIES FOR FUCK'S SAKE!) and they'll look like every anime fap material ever just with a different color skin and token nods to the original source material.
This is why Miyazaki said that anime suffered from otaku, regardless of people who call him an elitist for pointing out that the medium that he's a master of is growing stagnant.
I mean fucking seriously. We have access to an infinite world of possibilities in our minds, but the same thing just gets getting created over and over again.
This is why Miyazaki said that anime suffered from otaku, regardless of people who call him an elitist for pointing out that the medium that he's a master of is growing stagnant.
I mean fucking seriously. We have access to an infinite world of possibilities in our minds, but the same thing just gets getting created over and over again.
The premise is unique. Is the execution? Because the premise for Attack on Titan was unique before it started dipping into the well of Shonen cliches. So I'm sorry if your retort to my criticism feels a little hollow.inu-kun said:
And even if this is some magical, genre defying show, I have to ask. Is it the norm? Or the exception? I think we both know what the answer to that is. Fuck, I like anime, but you can't deny something's flaws just because you like it.
There is plenty of criticism to be had about how Western fantasy takes way too much from Tolkeins work and never really changed it up in design and personality. For instance Elder Scrolls and Witcher are the only major Western franchise I can think of right now where all the elves aren't all white demigods of pure beauty, intelligence, and prowess.inu-kun said:
What artistic twists are you talking about exactly? For decades regardless of the world, tone, design, etc. Almost all anime 'monster' girls are just hot/cute women with like demon horns or they have cat ears or some shit.
Keep in mind that this is often in direct relation to their MALE counterparts. It's not like Japan is unable to make unique and riveting monster designs. They are more than capable of doing it with MALE fantasy monsters and races. But the very moment they have to design a female one all sense of originality is thrown in the trash in favor of what will sell the most anime figures to the Otaku.
As others have pointed out it is horribly jarring to see a male lizard beast look like- well a lizard beast and their female counterpart is just some random chick with a couple of scales here and there some sharp teeth and maybe their hands and feet are more animal based.
What risk taking was there in that?
Maybe the tone of this thread would be more different if the males and females are designed to be equally hot and bishounen/moe with zero ambition to really take it that far.
But more often than not it's only the woman that takes several pegs down in the 'monster' part and gain much more steps towards the 'girl' part.
I mean, I follow a lot of anime inspired artists here in the West that have no problems making a bug woman look like a fucking praying mantis that would eat your head off. (Would link but nsfw and all that.) She still has all the feminine qualities one could fap too but she actually looks like something that would eat your head off. After all she is a MONSTER girl. Not girl with some antennae on her.
I mean, hey if you know any anime and manga that actually take monster girls to the monstrous degree with the same gusto as their male counterparts than by all means share it to the world in this thread.
I'll start off by linking what I consider to be pretty bonafide monster girls.
(The one on the left)
This is actually a photoset so I'm just gonna leave the full link to the post here ---> http://magic-doogies.tumblr.com/post/133803924463/ghostgreen-today-after-work-i-amused-myself-by
But under a spoiler because boob and though it's non sexual I don't know how harsh CoC is on that.
I can go on and on but for the sake of post length I'm gonna leave it here.
Eh, those two are kinda the "oni in name only" trope that's been going around lately. Which twists the concept of oni with the concept that extremely powerful ayakashi can assume human forms to pass as human. Really the Re:Zero series is all the trappings of dating sims and light novels that exist purely as fapping material, which the latter is patently what it started as.gritch said:If we want to go down that route for orc/ogres then these two would fall under that category. Both are described as Oni in Re:Zero.KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:Actually the Japanese idea of Orcs and Ogres draws from the ancient Oni folklore of Japan.
Which holds true for even DragonQuest, which also draws inspiration from traditional Japanese folklore.
Don't really imagine that's what the OP had in mind with "hot orc/dwarves girls" in anime though.
Attack on Titan was never unique, it drew inspiration from the invincible man-eating giants of Celtic folklore. The fact of the matter is, virtually all fiction is derivative in some way, or another, even going back to ancient pagan gods.erttheking said:
And yet other mediums don't seem to fall into traps quite as narrows as anime. Anime is in a better position than a medium it's four times as old as? Stop the fucking presses. Watch enough anime to notice patterns? Yeah it's called looking around and seeing that it has little to offer and getting educated opinions from friends who spend a lot of time with it.inu-kun said:
The only medium that targets LGBT....HA! Yeah, that tells me that you haven't really done any research into other mediums and their attempts to appeal to the LGBT crowd. Or are you going to tell me that Steven Universe is girls/boys only? Or the increase in LGBT love interests in video games, more of a inclusion of LGBT characters on TV shows, and literature which, I'm sorry to say utterly blows absolutely everything anime does out of the water. In fact, I'd say all of those mediums are better off than anime, because anime usually comes with the cultural baggage that in Japan homosexual relationships aren't seen as real relationships. So yeah, anime is more inclusive towards LGBT than other mediums? Only if you completely ignore what other mediums are doing. But please, tell me how Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Hate Plus, Degrassi, Game of Thrones Star Trek, the Loud House, Lost Girl, Batwoman, the New Question, Orange is the fucking New Black, Arrow, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, Bayonetta, UNDERTALE, Adventure Time, Legend of Freaking Korra are all boys/girls only. No pointing out problems you have with the show, that's not the point here. All of these works either had gay characters or very pro-gay messages and none of them were anime. The only medium...yeah right.
I criticized anime, a medium I enjoy, I don't know why you're getting so defensive over it.
More than you, if you where actually aware of the western market it's use of LGBT is a marketing tool, they will put more effort into highlighting the fact that they have gay comic book characters (Disney) or that Sulu is married to a man (Paramount) than actually showing it. A bait and switch to appease the virtue signalers and the foreign market.erttheking said:
At the end of the day, quality aside Japan just gives people what they want, they don't pretend to do it because they care, they do it because people pay for what they want . In Japan if you are a gay guy or girl who loves that stuff you know they made it because it's what gets your jollies off.
Outside of porn it's one of the few mediums that target people who actually enjoy the idea of it being gay outside of a social issue.
It's honestly funny in a sad way how in mainstream movies from the US the only presence of LGBT characters is in a means which can be removed in dubbing. Though it's to be expected given how outside of Western Europe, Oceania and Japan the world is not particularly fond of LGBT people, to undersell how things are.Gengisgame said:
Gengisgame said:
Say what you will about the cynical reasons why western media makes lgbt characters or stories, but at least they TRY to make something new and at the same time make compelling and interesting characters. Yeah, at worst it comes off as forced and cringey when done horribly (and that happens more times than it should honestly) but at least they make the effort to WANT to understand their consumers.Zontar said:
For as "progressive" as people say anime is or was I can only count a handful of shows that casted any gay or trans characters in any decent light, and most of them were a decade or so ago. The rest were preeeeeety fucked up on how they portrayed them; gay men as pedophiles and man sex offenders, trans people as psychopathic sadists, and gay women as desperately confused and annoyingly childish stalkers or something, or their all comedic relief characters which is oddly far more insulting.
The west may have just gotten its shit together, and there are still a ways to go, but we have done way more for representation in terms of story and character development.
Not really, anime pretty much treats gay male relationships as fan-service for shojo audiences, while shonen uses lesbian relationships the same way. Then both poke fun at the usage of gay/lesbian relationships in the other, where in shonen the girl who likes boys being gay is presented as a creepy yaoi fan. Then in Shojo the boy who likes lesbian stuff is presented as being a total immature pervert.inu-kun said:
That's all beside the fact that in East Asia, being gay is far more taboo than being trans, which generally gets a lot better acceptance.
In this case western media in a lot of respects has a lot better gay/lesbian representation, but awful trans representation. Literally the only worth while trans representation currently is in series targeted at transgender audiences, not at the general mainstream audience.
Really people say LGBT representation in western media, when really what you get is Lesbian and Gay representation, but of those two only lesbian representation is done in any meaningful way. As in lesbians portrayed in media can have their sexuality be incidental to their character and they're not always played to the maximum of negative stereotypes. Hell most of your examples are examples lesbians but nothing else is touched. Which is in part due to playing to the male gaze, of LGBT only the L is really seen as "acceptable". Where as gay characters either have to be uber masculine dude, or play to the "flaming effeminate gay guy" stereotype for laughs. Of them only Orange is the New Black is the only one I'm aware of that has any trans representation, but that's totally at odds with how trans people are treat in the US prison system, glossing over the fact that trans people basically always get put in the wrong prison, then shuffled off into isolation units. TV, Movies, Games, and western animation aren't exactly stellar examples pro-LGBT inclusiveness, most examples from those mediums are still harmfully stereotypical, or explaining to the community how the LGBT community needs to stop complaining already. Western Animation is by far the worst, because it only ever touches on lesbianism and only because lesbianism is seen as "safe", and they still walk on egg-shells about it.erttheking said:
That's a bit inaccurate, there are plenty of examples that are done as honest representation, yeah a lot is cynical marketing, but there is also a lot of positive well done representation. Especially where lesbians and bi women are concerned, less so with gay and bisexual men, but prescious few for the trans community.Gengisgame said:
Also in Anime, Manga, and Japanese games? You're way off base. Most gay/lesbian stuff is played for maximum wanking value to the target audience, or is played as a comic misunderstanding where the involved characters aren't actually gay/lesbian, others just jumped to that conclusion. In Asia there is far less acceptance for Lesbian and Gay people, than there is for trans people, who are still pretty marginalized. Japan does the best, having the most tools and acceptance in the region for trans people, but gay/lesbian stuff is still seen as purely perverse sexual gratification, with no acknowledgement of it being a valid relationship model. Or in short: Japan is a lot less strictly cisnormative, but much more heavily and strictly heteronormative.
You left out North America... Even so it's often glossed over because they want to include it to expand market value, but most of the people doing the inclusive writing are cisgender and straight. It's like how white writers often mishandle ethnic minority characters, especially if that ethnic minority character is supposed to be from "the wrong side of the tracks". Also in across Western Europe, Oceania, East Asia, and North America, society still isn't really that inclusive, or supportive. Although in Japan, South Korea, and other such places, Trans people get the acceptance gay/lesbian folk get in the likes of western Europe and North America... But Gays in Asia get treated like how trans people tend to be treated in the west. Even so, in the best of places in what is today Nominally tolerant of LGBT folk nations, all LGBT people are treated as second class citizens more often than not.Zontar said:
No I didn't, the qualifier was Foreign Market. Canada and the US are the domestic market.KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Honestly if you set the bar that high, you will never have a society where the label of being inclusive applies. While things are far from perfect, in wider society outside of sub-cultural enclaves this statement could not be further from the truth (save for East Asia). The level of inclusivity in North America, Western Europe and Oceania is both as unprecedented as it is high: extreme levels of both unseen in human history that doesn't have much room left for improvement (the room is always there, but the largest battles are over).
While there are a few things left to be fixed (such as making it illegal to fire someone for being gay or trans), the statement that in the US, Canada or Western Europe gays and trans people are treated as second class citizens is a blatantly false one, and if anything shows how far we've come that so many make the mistake of thinking it is the case. I wouldn't go so far as to call myself a second class citizen as an Anglo living in Quebec, and with how the LGBT movement is treated in most of the Western World it would not be incorrect for me to state they are in an enviable position compared to us.
It reminds me of when people complain about 'systemic racism' in the US that isn't actually there due to what the word means and it's massive misuse becoming the norm.
Well to our persepctive, but to say a Brit, Australian... Or an Israeli like inu-kun. North America is the foreign market, though mostly where media comes from, not so much were media is exported to though.Zontar said:
I really don't think that asking for enough normalization where being outed as trans, or gay won't result in being beaten, or being refused service, a job, or housing... That's a pretty big issue and minimizing it from a cis/straight position doesn't actually make it any less of an issue. The big battles haven't been "won", even marriage equality in the US, if Trump is elected and puts his first choice on the bench for the SCotUS, there is a chance that marriage equality will be brought back and reversed by the supreme court.Zontar said:
When you can be fired for being LGBT, when you can be denied a job because of it, when you can be denied housing and even evicted from your home for being LGBT... When there is a concentrated push to exclude trans people from public life by making it harder for us to transition by blocking medical coverage, while making it impossible to legally change gender. When queer and trans bashing is still a sickeningly common events... You say as a that being cisgender straight and Anglo in Quebec is major disadvantage, that you envy the LGBT community because of it? Either Canada is a wonderland of acceptance, or you're very sheltered and don't have any clue what it's like to actually be a LGBT person. I lean towards the latter because I know a trans person who lives in a really very LGBT heavy section of Toronto, who is also bombarded with hate near her home every day by "Christian activists", who are looking to repeal what few protections she has under the law.Zontar said:
Also remember that being able to deny a LGBT person a job, or fire them from a job they already have. Being able to evict LGBT people from their apartments, or able to refuse to tent to them because they're LGBT... Both of those are huge parts of what drives disproportionately high levels of homelessness in the LGBT community, while driving LGBT folk into prostitution, pornography, and/or drug dealing just to make ends meet while they live in slums... If they're lucky that is.
That is a huge problem that isn't limited to isolated instances, it's common. You saying it's some little side issue ignores how many people's lives are ruined by these issues. Then there are all the LGBT youth who are kicked out of their homes, abandoned, and living on the streets because of their being different. These aren't small problems Zontar, they're big issues and they need to be addressed constructively. If I can legally be denied housing and work, which is what most LGBT people can expect to experience, and you think that's not being treated like a second class citizen, that we have it somehow better. You've got to be joking.
You do realize that ethnic minority communities have statistically higher rates of poverty for a reason right? It's not because they're stupid, or lazy, you realize that right? It's because there are still institutional biases against them that really harm their chances of success, which is a symptom of biases that people still hold to this day. Even with legal restrictions on discriminating by race, it doesn't stop it from happening, especially when most people who experience that discrimination can't even hope to afford to sue over it, let alone see justice in a court of law...Zontar said:
Yeah things are better now than in the past, that doesn't magically mean everything is fixed. It's also not a coincidence that people dismiss these issues are also not a member of the classes that are experiencing the discrimination.
The discussion was about American media, the implication is that the North American domestic market is not part of the foreign market when talking about these issues.KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
No.
The vast majority (+90%) of every Western nation, even the United States, is against these things. As it stands the largest fights, that against the strong arm of the law, is over in most places, with pretty much every territory having the refusal of service or housing on the basis of being LGBT being illegal (though we do have a very serious problem these days of people not going to legal authorities when something illegal happens). Jobs are another matter, and are a fight that needs to be fought.
And no, Trump isn't suddenly going to become anti-gay while also stuffing the SCotUS with enough far right judges to reverse the nation wide legalisation of gay marriage. I know many like to paint him as literally hitler but that's overblowing it.
You can be two of these things in some parts of the United States.
Oh I wish either of those was the case.
Oh so in Toronto, one of the most hate-filled places in the country, the LGBT community has to deal with what we Anglos here in Quebec do. Got it.
Also, tell your friend to go to the cops. For god sake why has the entire left seemingly forgotten that law enforcement exists?
Unless the United States has secretly changed the law regarding this in the past few weeks this is the type of situation one should, as stated already, deal with it with authorities because the current laws on the book prevent it.
I didn't say it was a side issue, I said compared to the real battles it's not as significant. Two very different things where one is true and one is not.
Yes I do, and it has been demonstrated as having nothing to do with nonexistent systemic racism time and again. In the 1960s Asian Americans where worst off then African Amerians. After the introduction of desegregation laws and affirmative action the African American community despite having the state and countless institutions propping it up only improved to a degree before stagnating, while the Asian American community went on to become the best off demographic in the country to the point where Affirmative Action hits them harder then it does White Americans.
Decades of institutional bias in favour of African Americans has not managed to solve the problems the African American community is facing. In fact many of the problems it faces have arisen after the changes occurred. You're right that it has nothing to do with being lazy or stupid, because while there are people who are lazy or stupid and try to game the system that exist across all races. What IS a problem, however, is culture, namely black urban culture of gang worship that has a very narrow view of what it means to be black and anyone who diverts from that view (which itself is a breading ground for crime and violence and actively discourages success) is hammered down. When added to a community with crippling levels of single motherhood in a world where single mothers have trouble making ends meet, and institutional biases that only help prop people up after the point of no return has already been crossed, and it's no wonder poverty and crime and places where this specific demographic is massively over-represented.
It has nothing to do with systemic racism and everything to do with culture, and anyone telling you otherwise has lied to you, and is likely trying to sell you something (most probably a failed ideology that after 50 years of trying has still not managed to fix the problem).
You do know that 2/3rds of Asian Americans are 1st or Second generation immigrants right as in most of them haven't been America before the 70s.Zontar said:
Also the reason why there is gang culture is because they were gangs in the first place its not like NWA came out and black started killing each other no NWA came out after gangs were apparent also what about the war on drugs that was ment to break up black communities and the fact blacks are most likely to be arrested for drugs despite both whites and blacks using it at the same rate.