DoA Dev Says Jiggle Physics Are Part of Japanese Culture

bluepilot

New member
Jul 10, 2009
1,150
0
0
Ramzal said:
bluepilot said:
I guess that it is part of Japanese culture to super-deform characters: big eyes, big breasts, huge heads...case in point, hello kitty (except for the breasts).

I think that women are either portrayed as submissive, or a strong but in a thong (Ghost in a shell) in most genre of Japanese media.

I do not like the way that Japanese culture portrays women, most are ridiculously deformed with non-exisitant proportions, but at the same time it is not something that I take seriously because I do not feel threatened by it.

We do not want to deprive all of those lonely and sexually dysfunctional men from snuggling their breast-shaped pillows.


She disagrees with your opinion. :p She's a B-cup at best and still awesome while being humanly flawed. There are -plenty- of women in Japanese games that are strong and still dressed with some sense and not begging for attention.
What!! A woman wearing clothes in a Japanese game...what is this madness?

There are some more realistic women in games, who for the most part remain modestly dressed, but I think that these are the exception to the rule, but I'd have to look into it and get some statistics to back and validate that opinion...given the INSANE amount of sex games that Japan produces though, I have a feeling that any statistics would be kind of skewed.

But we need more awesome girls like that picture, nicely well designed girls with character, and less girls who are only distinguishable by the two spacehoppers on her chest which are fighting to break free from the leather clasp holding the shoelace in place
 

Chiave

New member
Aug 26, 2012
26
0
0
bluepilot said:
What!! A woman wearing clothes in a Japanese game...what is this madness?
I wish :p

bluepilot said:
There are some more realistic women in games, who for the most part remain modestly dressed, but I think that these are the exception to the rule, but I'd have to look into it and get some statistics to back and validate that opinion...given the INSANE amount of sex games that Japan produces though, I have a feeling that any statistics would be kind of skewed.
Don't waste your time (that could be spent on gaming!) looking for statistics based upon a rule that doesn't actually exist. As of right now, developers have a creative license to virtually do whatever they please. Literally speaking of course, they can "virtually" do anything, with only a few limitations. There's nothing hindering them from creating more "moderately dressed characters" other than a market that won't support these characters. A good question to ask is whether or not there's a market for moderately dressed characters.

bluepilot said:
But we need more awesome girls like that picture, nicely well designed girls with character, and less girls who are only distinguishable by the two spacehoppers on her chest which are fighting to break free from the leather clasp holding the shoelace in place
"We" actually don't. I wouldn't mind seeing 'better' female characters however, this would solve nothing in terms of complaints or overall quality of the game. The fact of the matter is that there are more 'awesome' female video game characters present then there have ever been in the history of video games. Despite this, people still complain.
 

ReinWeisserRitter

New member
Nov 15, 2011
749
0
0
On the one hand, people are overreacting; video games aren't even the worst place women are portrayed in the United States, for example, and while the Japanese are ridiculously disturbing at times with their own portrayal (there's a game called Rapelay, for example), at least they keep their worst examples to themselves, I guess. I personally think the feminist movement in video games has become the new terrorism or piracy; it's cool to blame everyone you don't like for it, whether they're inflicting any actual harm or not.

Justifying it by saying it's apart of Japanese culture is pretty damn sad, though. If you're going to present yourself on a global scale, and indeed, portray your female characters as from around the world, then you'd probably better be more sensitive to people around the world if you're going to try to sell it to them as well. Saying "Oh, well that's just how we do things, and you don't have a right to complain." is an eyebrow-raiser when you're marketing it to us.

I mean, if it was within your culture to shoot people in the head with rubber balls as a form of greeting, yeah, I might have an issue with it, but as long as you keep it to yourself and everyone involved is cool with it, I guess I don't have a right to complain about it. Note that not everyone in Japan is cool with the portrayal of women in it, and Japan's culture is such that people who aren't happy with the country are typically intimidated into not doing anything about it, but we'll pretend otherwise for the sake of the illustration. When you come over here and start popping me in the head, my rights change a bit. "That's part of Japanese culture" isn't a solid defense when we're not in Japan, and maybe people outside of Japan would appreciate it if you reigned in what they see as insensitive or obnoxious when you're dealing with them.

Granted, there are some aspects of Japan most other cultures on the whole see as obnoxious, but attracts certain other people within them; the at-times ridiculous sexualization of women is one of those things, for better or worse, but most products of that are in dark, seedy corners of the internet where most do not tread. Dead or Alive goes too far over the line as far as I'm concerned - even if not by a particularly noteworthy degree, but we're talking about it, so it bears mentioning - by being as shameless as it is while also being out in the open, and to criticize people who don't like it when you're shoving it in their faces is a bit... delusional, really. I still don't think it's worth being that up in arms about it, though; men are sexualized in video games all the time themselves, even if not always intentionally, which while making it funnier, doesn't make it less prominent, so unless we're going to take topless men glistening with sweat and Solid Snake's well-toned ass out of video games, there's not much to whine about on the feminism side of things, either.
 

simple64

New member
Sep 14, 2011
45
0
0
Cavouku said:
Now I only sorta-read the first two pages, and I suspect most people do that as well, so this may never be seen, but dammit, I like putting my two cents into controversial or potentially controversial subjects! Call it a sickness.

I saw some people say they're just pandering to a certain demographic. Not the worst defense, but you have to think outside the box with that kind of defense. A game where you kill nothing but non-whites (read: a number of real games. I believe CoJ: The Cartel did this, but I don't know for certain) could be said to pander to the specific demographic of white-supremacists and get the same defense. They're different, obviously, and they shouldn't be treated as equals, but that defense CAN be applied.

Anyways, I never personally cared to complain about DoA, because I don't care (simple enough), but if some people think it's sexist, I can understand that. The problem was... I don't think that Mr. Hayashi (or am I reading his name the wrong way around? I get confused about that sometimes, sorry) has done anything to help his stance.

The best defense would probably be "We hear you, people who don't like our game, but frankly, business is business, it's not all that bad, and we're better off not changing things in this regard." Trying to pin it on his culture just makes him look like he's trying to hide behind his culture, makes his culture come across as openly sexist, and I like to believe that's not the case... or at least, it's seeing a revamp in modern Japanese society.

Plus... wait, what? Japanese women do not tend to have grossly over-proportioned melons, naturally at least. There are always outliers, but outliers nonetheless.

The problem isn't the issue (mindfuck), the issue... or problem(?) is his attempt at defending his place. And frankly... it wasn't a good defense.

And a poor defense let's the other side score more points. Or knock you out faster, fighting game and all that.
I agree with this entirely. If he's doing it because he's pandering to his fanbase, sure, why not. Don't try blaming it on "cultural differences". I don't pretend to know much about Japanese culture, but I'm sure that there are plenty of them who finds his games tasteless.
 

Chemical Alia

New member
Feb 1, 2011
1,658
0
0
Chiave said:
Gladys Knight said:
DjinnFor said:
Want to give Gladys Knight and DjinnFor a shout out on my first post. I sincerely thank you for having common sense. Also, thanks for trying to help your fellow human beings out.

Allow me to assist you! :)

Notice how the people crying "sexism" have absolutely no talent, other than to point out things that they find offensive in video games; games that took thousands upon thousands of hours planning, drawing and programming ect. To the people doing this, I have a simple question:

How do you live with yourself?

Do these fictional characters really bring harm onto you? Moreover, the Dead or Alive series is known for its' marketing towards boys, so why exactly are you all acting as if jiggle physics is a complete surprise?

What you people fail to realize (although it has probably been stated several times...) is that you, yes you, are paving the way for politically correct dogma to dictate gaming. The truth is that you have no 'right' to demand from the developers that they re-engineer their games to fit around your specific view of morality and what's right.

I'm sick of you people trying to control and piggy back onto the creative process of video games. Rather than create your own quality product, you decide to butt into everybody else's work and dictate to everyone else "what is and what isn't offensive."

No talent complainers, who don't create anything, should have absolutely no say in the creative process of any video game. Unless they're the one's planning, designing, programming, thinking up characters ect.
There's plenty of stupid shit in games, "that it's hard to make" doesn't really excuse them from criticism. This sounds an awful lot like the common claim among 15-year-old Sonic fan artists on Deviantart of "you're just saying those mean things because you're jealous."
 

ThunderCavalier

New member
Nov 21, 2009
1,475
0
0
No offense, but Team Ninja and DoA specifically is all about exaggerated ridiculousness. It's SUPPOSED to be weird, slightly offensive, and possibly a bit sexist. I almost wouldn't hesitate in calling DoA a 'joke fighter.'

Also, while I want to commenton how extremely offensive and insensitive it must be to your own culture to say that 'big, stonking tits' are a big part of your culture... I then think of many anime I watch and I hesitate. I'll be quite honest... a lot of Japanese entertainment DOES center around some sexist themes. Besides, Japan has always been a bit... loose with their 'appropriateness.'

[youtube]http://youtube/l6bbul1hs1c[/youtube] And, because the embedding thing hates me right now, direct URL:

http://youtu.be/l6bbul1hs1c

The above anime is a Shojo, iirc. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but Shojos generally target adolescent girls.

And no, that wasn't censored at all in its release in Japan, iirc. Again, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but Japan has a lot looser standards than... uh... most other places.

No offense to any Japanese people, mind you!
 

chuckdm

New member
Apr 10, 2012
112
0
0
NightowlM said:
-SNIP-
And are you saying that women who game are so much in the minority that they ought not make themselves heard because the guy's by virtue of being in the majority have final say on what is and is not acceptable in games?
No.

What I am saying is that double-standards apply to everyone. If we are going to get rid of well-endowed female characters in games - or in movies, books, music (people do look at cover art) and elsewhere - then we should do the same to men. If we do that, in turn, what we are left with is an entire array of media that nobody can stand to watch more than 5 minutes.

The simple truth is that, once again, whether it is one little girl, every little girl in the world, or every homo sapien born without a penis, if ANY OR ALL OF THEM are so heavily influenced by jiggle physics in a video game, skimpy underwear in a movie, innuendo on a TV show, or any other form of mass media that they feel compelled to conform to a stereotype in order to feel better about themselves, then that is NOT my problem. That is THEIR problem and it is something wrong WITH THEM, period. I don't care if it's something as small as buying heels 1/8th of an inch taller because they believe it will be attractive to me. If THEY choose to do that, that is their choice. And if the reason they did so is because a character in some form of media also did so, it is THEIR lack of creativity, self-confidence, or just plain old intellectual laziness to think through the process that is at fault for them, and the majority of women, being over-sexualized. Nobody is forcing anyone to wear short skirts and high heels. Nobody is putting a gun to their head and telling them that if they choose to wear a long-sleeve shirt on a cold day that they're never going to be able to get laid. NOBODY is making this decision FOR women. Therefore, if they feel pressured into doing so, it is UP TO THEM to resist and overcome that pressure.

I say this because I have faith in the fairer sex. I believe women are strong enough, both physically and mentally, to overcome this. I do not believe that they require my assistance to do this. In fact, I believe that if I refuse to purchase a game that I otherwise would enjoy the shit out of, and I do so solely to boycott a decision like this - a decision that appeals to me - on their behalf, I am doing them a grave disservice. For me to capitulate on their behalf is to suggest they cannot win such a fight on their own. And I believe they can. I don't even support them winning this one - I see no reason, logically, for women to oppose breast physics in a video game. They have more important things to do, like becoming CEOs and running for president. And yes, if they CHOOSE to do so, being mothers. To imply that without the mass support of men they couldn't get this pulled from a game - or even worse, to imply that they have no better use of their time than to bother - is a far greater insult to women than the jiggle physics itself could ever be.

In the mean time, I am still waiting on a very slightly overweight hacker girl in a hoodie to find me. I don't want a runway model. I want a REALISTIC woman. Does that mean I want to see one on my screen? Hell no, I play this shit for FUN. And if women honestly think that what I want to see in a video game, and what I would prefer to meet in real life, are the same thing, then I am sorry for giving them more credit for their overall intelligence than I have. But I doubt real women are so inept as to miss that distinction.

That is what I am saying. That said, do not call my arguments straw men just because you yourself do not have a valid counter-point. My arguments are deeper than that. Respond in kind or GTFO.
 

Lonewolfm16

New member
Feb 27, 2012
518
0
0
Really, good on them. I have never seen how having girls in games be more attractive is "sexist". Lets face it guys (and some girls) like boobs. If we can give the audience something they like they are more likely to buy and enjoy our game. Its simple and not really sexist at all. Sex is fine people, its not some kind of evil horrid abomination that will break our poor delicate minds.
 

Basement Cat

Keeping the Peace is Relaxing
Jul 26, 2012
2,379
0
0
While I appreciate the values of PC'ism I nonetheless find it occasionally refreshing to witness someone just say "Eff it!".

And frankly I don't think it's just a Japanese thing for a game developer to basically give the world the 'finger' and say: "We're gonna make a game that makes us MONEY!!!".
 

excalipoor

New member
Jan 16, 2011
528
0
0

I'm just going to leave this here. I don't necessarily agree with what she's saying, as I refuse to accept that people are slaves to biology to the extent she's suggesting, and I think this male rights movement is almost as over the top as the women's rights advocates. That said, I did find the video interesting, and it also shows that certain two women here don't speak for their whole gender.
 

JWAN

New member
Dec 27, 2008
2,725
0
0
Of course it is. Everyone knows that japanese culture is FULL of titty-physics. Look at Kabuki Theater, or Karate, or... wait
No. No its not.
 

Ghaleon640

New member
Jan 13, 2011
441
0
0
Everyone says that more games should be less sexist, but I don't think that means that everyone should crack down on every popular game that is. Sex and porn sells. (No shit,) but anything rated Adult doesn't go over very well in video game sales. So yeah, even if its sexist, based in culture or not, who the hell cares? It works for the people who get the game, it works for the developers. Hell, its practically funny. I think that all the overly white knights here should calm down.

And everyone bringing up that one old story about the woman getting verbally abused because its 'part of fighting game culture'... stop using that for everything. A couple dumb assholes don't speak for everyone. There are assholes in our culture, but it does not mean that our culture is to BE an asshole.
 

rbstewart7263

New member
Nov 2, 2010
1,246
0
0
excalipoor said:

I'm just going to leave this here. I don't necessarily agree with what she's saying, as I refuse to accept that people are slaves to biology to the extent she's suggesting, and I think this male rights movement is almost as over the top as the women's rights advocates. That said, I did find the video interesting, and it also shows that certain two women here don't speak for their whole gender.
Oh I love her vids one of the few women and true feminists willing to cop mainstream feminists out on there crybaby bullshit.
 

Adultism

Karma Haunts You
Jan 5, 2011
977
0
0
Actually contrary to popular belief most Japanese citizens are normal people, But in America we don't have people who make games about tentacle monsters or schoolgirls, but in Japan this is very common. Their manga, anime, and games are often geared towards adult males with weird fetishes. In the US that kind of stuff is more-so censored then in Japan. For example hentai games are not widely sold in the US. They have sections in stores for that kind of stuff in Japan. Most Japanese citizens find it strange as we do to, Often labeling them "otaku"

So technically Jiggle physics are a normal thing in Japan where that sorta stuff is more common. Different culture for different places I suppose.

However back to my first part there are a few stores in the USA who sell some of that kind of stuff. Bible Black for instance is well known among our geek culture and it is sold in a store that I know of, as well as Japanese hentai and more Japanese culture titles. But I only know of one store that sells those kinds of things and it doesn't have too much because once again we don't see much of the "adult oriented" Japanese content. No idea why, but as a guess most of the US culture probably finds it REALLY strange so we don't get too many imports of those kinds of things. Unless you go to a convention or buy it online where its much easier to get because the internet is world wide and you can buy this stuff from people on the other side of the world.
 

Helmholtz Watson

New member
Nov 7, 2011
2,503
0
0
Moonlight Butterfly said:
I think this all comes down to the fact that some women can compartmentalise gaming and sex and some men can't .

I mean I would think a man running around in a little speedo would be fucking stupid. I'm not joking I do because it would make the entire game ridiculous. It wouldn't turn me on it would make me laugh.

Why don't you go look at porn and we get games that we can play without having huge funbags bounce around the screen.


This is what DOA looks like to straight women.
*Looks at the muscle game*
If that is what DOA looks like comparatively to you, then you should do what I would do if presented the game you showed, not play it. I don't like the game you showed, so I'm not going to play it, you should do the same in regards to DOA. It really is not that hard.
 

Guilherme Zoldan

New member
Jun 20, 2011
214
0
0
Did anybody actualy -want- DoA to stop being a tittyfest?
If so, please tell me your name and adress so that I can EXTERMINATE you.