Doctor Who: How do you transition from David Tenant to Matt Smith?

thiosk

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Oh yes, a reboot it most certainly is.

However, Dr Who is one of those few serials in which rebooting is essentially required--
its a time travel show. Shit gets rebooted every episode. Timelines get erased and rearranged because it becomes convenient for the doctor to do so.

I have high hopes for the new episodes now that we're *finally* rid of the ponds.
(my love for you burns through the ages! my love for you burns also through the ages! did I mention it is the deepest and most meaningful of all love in the universe? yes you did! and let me remind you how deep my love is for you!)
 

Zen Bard

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Sep 16, 2012
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Oddly enough, I'm good with Matt Smith's Doctor. It's everything else that changed with the 11th Doctor that bothers me (the new "Scooby-Doo" type theme music, the "development" of the weeping angels, The Ponds, River Effing Song!. I think this is all the result of an attempt to "broaden the audience".

But I digress...

To answer the initial question, no...Smith's Doctor doesn't stay the Gen Y Nutty Professor throughout the whole run. In fact, they start exploring the possibility that much of his campy goofiness may be an effort to mask some of the seething rage we saw in the 9th Doctor.
 

game-lover

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I rather got into Matt Smith. He's good in his own way. I thought it would take me long to get into after End of Time, but not so much.

However, I haven't managed to continue because I'm stuck on the episode where he's supposed to meet Van Gogh... Hell, I forget the number of it right now. I couldn't figure out why. But I started the episode, paused and never went back. And the episodes before were really interesting.

Vampires of Venice was a good one. A nice little quote showing hints of the Doctor's badassness to come. I've been debating skipping episodes because it made me feel bads. But I think I might anyway.
 

DTWolfwood

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Oct 20, 2009
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I skipped Tenants Who all together. I started with Smith.

SFdebris got me into Dr.Who when he did his impression of the Matt Smith Who.
 

teebeeohh

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i like matt smiths dotctor, the only things i initially disliked was that he was so damn arrogant but that kinda fits since
apparently Moffat wants to revisit the whole deal with the doctor being time lord god or something from way back
 

FEichinger

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The thing is ... I absolutely didn't like 10's end. He should really have cheered up a lot after realizing "So, I'm not gonna fully die? Just another regeneration? Oh well."
The whole "I don't want to go" shtick was just ... odd, after he faced unescapable actual death shortly before.

That's what makes the transition to 11 so god awful to me. 11 made sense, if you cut out 10's whole goodbye blurghs. But that blurghs isn't cut out. It's there. And Moffat not honouring it at all and instead making 11 one of the most goofy characters just feels like a massive disservice.

I despise 11 - and Moffat, for that matter - for this simple reason: It was a reboot with no regard whatsoever to what Davies left it at, even though it could very well have been written properly into a goofy Doctor instead of just going "Still not ginger, WHEEEEE! ==D".
 

Lilani

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May 27, 2009
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albino boo said:
If you want a show with internal consistency you watching the wrong program. Th Doctor's character has always changed radically with each regeneration. The first regeneration I remember was from Tom Baker to Peter Davidson. Tom's Doctor was larger than life and pretty much insane whereas Davidson's Dr was quite and wistful. Colin Baker's Dr was shouty and angry, Sylvester Mccoy's was slightly menacing and the rest you have seen. Fundamentally with each new Dr it's new character that bears no relation to the previous one. The writers have always felt free to ignore previous lore and change the rules to what suits them dramatically as to what the Dr can and can't do. The fact that the show isn't internal consistent is why its going to have its 50th birthday this year.
This is more or less how I feel about it. I started watching Dr. Who right around when Matt's second series was ending. I ploughed through all of Tennant's stuff, got caught up with Smith, and while waiting for Matt's third series watched Eccleston's series and watched some of the Classic Who. While I do love Tennant, I also can't help but love the others. I guess since I went in already knowing about the whole regeneration thing, I left enough leeway in my mind to get well attached to Tennant but also be receptive to the changes that came with Matt. And every other Doctor has found his own place in my heart.

The only thing that annoyed me with Matt's transition was the quality of the stories, especially in this latest series. There are more plot holes in the Power of Three and the Gunslinger episode than in a block of swiss cheese, and the fact that the rules of the Angels were totally ignored at times throughout Angels Take Manhattan bothered me to no end. Not to mention how the Angel's powers were retconned in the Flesh and Stone episodes. They were so simple in Blink, and that's what made them so menacing. But then Flesh and Stone just went and overexplained them, and gave way to a lot of questions like "If angels are supposed to be in cities everywhere and people are taking pictures in cities, why aren't angels causing more havoc there?" And don't even get me started on the Statue of Liberty Angel.

I love Matt's Doctor, hell I even love River Song. But one of the things I've always loved about shows like Doctor Who is they set the rules at the beginning of the episode and those rules are followed to the end. And if they break the rules, then they have a good reason as to why and in the end it makes sense. But there have been a few transgressions of this after Moffat became the head writer, and I don't like that at all.

And I think that is the core of what a lot of people don't like about Matt's run as the Doctor. But since it's easier to hate an individual than something abstract like writing or story structure, the hate gets channeled to poor Matt instead.
 

Raikas

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Zachary Amaranth said:
I wonder how much fan rage there would be if McGann came back for a classic-style team up, since many don't even recognise him as official.
I always think that's a shame, because as mediocre as the TV movie was (and I actually thought it was't nearly as bad as people make it out to be), his audio adventures and the tie-in comics were really (IMO) the best of the DW side material.
 

Shoggoth2588

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Matt Smith was actually my first Doctor...I'm going to assume this isn't going to help anybody. I went from Smith to Eccleston though and haven't given Tennent much of a chance yet. I like Smith but Eccleston is my favorite. I really need to watch more of the older Doctors though; I feel like I would really enjoy Baker.
 

Mr Cwtchy

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So I guess this is yet another Doctor Who thread that has devolved into a Tennant V Smith, Davies V Moffat poo slinging match. Hoo-rah.

OT: Adjusting was rather difficult for me. Primarily because Tennant was my first Doctor, and you know your first Doctor often ends up being the one you're most fond of. It certainly was the case for me. I agree that Moffat's first series was all but officially a reboot of the show. Different writers, different cast, different TARDIS, different screwdriver. Heck, I'm struggling to think of something that wasn't changed, besides the founding basis of the show.

I suggest at least sticking with Smith's first series, give him(and the new writers) a chance to grow on you. If they don't, then at least you can walk away from it with some closure.
 

Coppernerves

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[I really like Matt Smith, and I really like David Tennant.

I'd say Smith is geekier, he likes fezzes, gingerness, and Bow Ties just because they're a bit quirky, and instead of regrowing the Tardis all organic-like, he's obviously had a lot of fun coming up with ways to integrate/improvise bits and pieces of mechanical, late 20th century... stuff into the Tardis's rebuild.

And his reaction to Vampires in Venice, instead of being worry, is along the lines of "Awesome!", like a kid who's discovered a really cool issue of his favourite superhero comic.

BTW, can anyone describe each doctor from before Eccleston with one sentence? I'm thinking of getting into 20th century DH, but haven't decided where to start.
 

DudeistBelieve

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Zachary Amaranth said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
But when 10 dies.... It's ssssoooooooooooooo fucking heartbreaking. He reacts so human, he doesn't want to die! His reaction to Donna's father being trapped in the box is so beautifully tragic, we see his frustration. We see him say his goodbyes. Then he dies.
It's some of the worst writing in the show, it's poor characterisation to pull at your heartstrings and the bad writing here is the main reason you're complaining in the first place.

It's almost like Davies was trying to salt the earth.

Then BAM! Regeneration. "Still not ginger", number 11 moves on with his fucking life with out so much a glance at his past or any of the deep feelings he's had in the past couple of hours.
So you just praised the closure that 10 got, and are complaining that 11 doesn't just dwell on it?

The weird thing is, 11 acts more or less like 10 did after regeneration, and shows a lot of 10 in series 5.

A lot of this is nitpicking. Oh no, they changed the TARDIS. Something they've done many times in the course of the show. And while I prefer the coral version, this isn't exactly a new thing. They changed the sonic Screwdriver, something that they had intended to do for Tennant (The original version of 11's screwdriver even had a 2006 copyright on it). They don't revisit companions 10 so adamantly made his goodbyes too! Panic! Mayhem! Dogs and cats living together!

Sir Thomas Sean Connery said:
I despised Smith for a while because I watched End of Time and INSTANTLY watched 11th Hour.
Oddly enough, I hate change. I was ready to abandon Doctor Who when I found out Tennant was leaving. And Smith won me over before the End of Time even finished.

Geronimo!

Atmos Duality said:
Considering he's been killed by radiation once, and survived a fall larger in The End of Time than the one in Logopolis, I think he might have been pushing the "I'm going to die" angle a whee bit too hard.
Not to mention his fear of death was a sudden, new thing for this Doctor. Even if you consider the asspull from the end of series 4 to be a precursor, it still has barely any traction. The Doctor has risked his life like four dozen times in the course of his time in the 10th incarnation alone, and suddenly he doesn't want to die because ponies.

It also sort of screws over the character arc that had been built with the tenth Doctor.

Captcha: it is different.

Yes, yes it is.
I would disagree that it was poor writing. Yeah 10 boldly threw himself into dangerous situations before but this was different. This time 10 was DESTINED to fail. All the other times he always had hope he could somehow asspull his way out of a situation, and now he was facing a situation he knew going in was utterly HOPELESS. And bullshit, he showed during the season 4 finale he didn't want to regenerate and when he saw a way out he took it. Or maybe I'm wrong, but shit made me feel.

Look I would of been satisfied if 10 goes, 11 comes and 11 goes "Oh.... well hey, that wasn't so ba-Oh new teeth."

And I'm well aware they change the Tardis and the screw driver with every new doctor, but I only jumped in at the start of the 2005 series and I'm not going back to the old ones until I'm caught up.... so yeah, forgive me for a little culture shock.

Bitter Hobbit said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
No I have to disagree. It made 10 so incredibly humble and human,
I wouldn't say he was humble, he acted like a spoiled brat. And his actions making him more human is a problem IMO because he's not human, he's a Time Lord, one of the reasons I love Matt's Doctor is he's much more strange and unusual, makes him seem more alien.
Spoiled brat? He walked into a fucking suicide mission, still somehow won. Are you underestimating the sense of relief anyone would be feeling in that moment only to have it so suddenly find out nope! Ya still lose! It's not even like he goes "Nope! Fuck you old man!" and buggers off, which he clearly could of done with no consequence. Ultimately he resigns to his fate, but he doesn't have to be happy about it.
 

DudeistBelieve

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Zen Bard said:
Oddly enough, I'm good with Matt Smith's Doctor. It's everything else that changed with the 11th Doctor that bothers me (the new "Scooby-Doo" type theme music, the "development" of the weeping angels, The Ponds, River Effing Song!. I think this is all the result of an attempt to "broaden the audience".

But I digress...

To answer the initial question, no...Smith's Doctor doesn't stay the Gen Y Nutty Professor throughout the whole run. In fact, they start exploring the possibility that much of his campy goofiness may be an effort to mask some of the seething rage we saw in the 9th Doctor.
He's growing on me. 2nd episode had him snapping at Pond and getting super serious.
 

bigfatcarp93

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SaneAmongInsane said:
But when 10 dies.... It's ssssoooooooooooooo fucking heartbreaking. He reacts so human, he doesn't want to die! His reaction to Donna's father being trapped in the box is so beautifully tragic,
Also, tiny nitpick, Wilf is Donna's GRANDfather. I'm amazed how many people, like almost EVERYONE, thinks he's her father, despite the fact that we met her dad in the Runaway Bride.
 

DudeistBelieve

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bigfatcarp93 said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
But when 10 dies.... It's ssssoooooooooooooo fucking heartbreaking. He reacts so human, he doesn't want to die! His reaction to Donna's father being trapped in the box is so beautifully tragic,
Also, tiny nitpick, Wilf is Donna's GRANDfather. I'm amazed how many people, like almost EVERYONE, thinks he's her father, despite the fact that we met her dad in the Runaway Bride.
Shit you're right.... and I knew that too.

@[email protected] I haven't been sleeping very much at all lately. This is like the 2nd day straight. Not insomnia but because I'm working on a thesis paper and blah blah blah.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Raikas said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
I wonder how much fan rage there would be if McGann came back for a classic-style team up, since many don't even recognise him as official.
I always think that's a shame, because as mediocre as the TV movie was (and I actually thought it was't nearly as bad as people make it out to be), his audio adventures and the tie-in comics were really (IMO) the best of the DW side material.
I've only heard, like, two. But they were quality.
 

kailus13

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Mar 3, 2013
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I transitioned by remembering that when a Doctor regenerates, it's essentially like he died and his memories were put into someone else. It's a good way of changing up the formula a bit without losing the momentum of the show. The 11th Doctor still remembers his former companions, and is rather desperately lonely as a result.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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SaneAmongInsane said:
I would disagree that it was poor writing. Yeah 10 boldly threw himself into dangerous situations before but this was different. This time 10 was DESTINED to fail. All the other times he always had hope he could somehow asspull his way out of a situation, and now he was facing a situation he knew going in was utterly HOPELESS. And bullshit, he showed during the season 4 finale he didn't want to regenerate and when he saw a way out he took it. Or maybe I'm wrong, but shit made me feel.
I already covered what you called "bullshit" on.

And the Doctor faced guaranteed death time and again. This was no different, except for the horrible scripting and "because ponies" logic.