Doctor Who Ratings Rise in the US, Fall in the UK

[Verlander]

That's what set me off.

I said on numerous occasions that the US and the UK both had racist idiots intermingling with the rest of us. But saying that simply because there is a party dedicated to it in the UK doesn't reflect us as a nation, for the simple fact that we ascribe to the principle of 'freedom of assembly'. The US does not.

If he'd have simply said the US is not more nationalist as a whole than the UK. I'd have agreed with him.

That is unfortunately not what he said.

I also didn't check his profile. So no, that didn't effect my judgement of him.

Then there's the fact that America does have political parties that are racist, as well as hate groups that aren't legislated against, and the fact that the main two American parties are very right wing and xenophobic. Check out their immigration policy for starters....

 

[0986875533423]

You guys even made up your own sports, because you didn't want to play with the rest of the world

Would we really want to play with them though? REALLY really?

 

[JDKJ]

That's not at all what I said. I said "n 2008 the BNP polled an average of 14% across 593 wards contested having fielded 612 candidates." Go back and read my post if you're in doubt. You were they one who twisted that into a claim on my part that the BNP had 14% of the total British votes cast. I said no such thing. Maybe your reading skills (lack thereof) got the better of you. But that ain't nowhere close to what I said. That's only what you said. And the two are not the same. Or is the underlying math escaping your comprehension?

And then you wanna talk about hoisting a strawman? Please.

*Ahem*

A quarter million votes and 14% of the votes cast ain't peanuts. What percentage of the vote did Cameron and the Conservatives get last time out?

I'd like my apology in bright pink, 30 meter high lettering if you wouldn't mind.

Also. Add some stars and glitter if you will.

Maybe a "I'm sorry, I was wrong here" soudtrack playing on a loop in the background?

No... that's too much.

But pink and stars... that's doable right?

You get nothing. Immediately before the post you now conveniently quote in only part and omit the larger context, I said "14% across 593 wards contested having fielded 612 candidates." The 14% I subsequently referred to is clearly a reference to the previously mentioned "14% across 593 wards contested having fielded 612 candidates." You can, if you choose to, leave out the all-important context and what was previously stated in order to ineptly make your disingenuous point, but you get nothing for that other than me rolling my eyes at your ineptness.

You said that two posts before.

If you don't provide context in your own posts how can you expect other people to provide it? Saying '14% of the votes cast' is a pretty clear statement in it's own right. If you want people to have context. Provide it.

This retarded fart of a discussion is going completely round the roundabouts now. People much saner than I have already left and forgotten you, I think I'll follow suit.

Talking with you is no doubt dropping my IQ.

Saying "14% of votes cast" doesn't at all or necessarily mean "14% of total votes cast." You stuck the word "total" in there, not me. Twisting my words or lacking in reading comprehension? Which one is it? It's either one or the other.

It's neither. It's using the context of your comment.

14% of a constituency doesn't mean diddley squat. So I fail to see why you'd bring it up as a point in a debate about how much influence they have. Unless you were trying to be disingenuous yourself to anybody who didn't know the actual figures.

And look at that, you made me reply again.

If I have one flaw, it's that I find it hard to let things drop.

I will try harder next time.

Because a political party that can garner "14% across 593 wards contested having fielded 612 candidates" isn't, I think, operating on the fringes. An average showing of 14% in contested races strikes me as a fairly respectable showing.

On a different but related note, why are you claiming that there's no right to assembly in the United States? The First Amendment to the Constitution clearly states:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

More of your patented and trademarked ignorance?

 

[Verlander]

You guys even made up your own sports, because you didn't want to play with the rest of the world

Would we really want to play with them though? REALLY really?

Urgh, Europeans don't wash XD

At least you play nice with Canada. Shame it's Ice Hockey...

Also... do you guys seriously play lacrosse? I saw it on American Pie, and I've always wanted to ask.

 

[0986875533423]

You guys even made up your own sports, because you didn't want to play with the rest of the world

Would we really want to play with them though? REALLY really?

Urgh, Europeans don't wash XD

At least you play nice with Canada. Shame it's Ice Hockey...

Also... do you guys seriously play lacrosse? I saw it on American Pie, and I've always wanted to ask.

How should I know? I'm a brit, hence my editing of my post to include pointedly-placed bolding.

 

[Verlander]

You guys even made up your own sports, because you didn't want to play with the rest of the world

Would we really want to play with them though? REALLY really?

Urgh, Europeans don't wash XD

At least you play nice with Canada. Shame it's Ice Hockey...

Also... do you guys seriously play lacrosse? I saw it on American Pie, and I've always wanted to ask.

How should I know? I'm a brit, hence my editing of my post to include pointedly-placed bolding.

Oooooh. In which case, I really apologise. Really really.

 

[JDKJ]

I'm glad you think yours are any more informed than mine. But, then again, I've never heard the fishmonger confess that his fish wasn't fresh.

I'm a UK resident and I take an active interest in our politics.

You googled BNP and read a wikipedia article.

............ Yea.

Did you plant cookies in my laptop? How do you know from where I obtained my knowledge of the BNP? Because I cited to wiki doesn't mean that's the sole source of my knowledge. For all you know, I could hold a Ph.D. in Comparative Political Science. Again, you are ignorant of that about which you know absolutely nothing. And I'm a resident of the United States and take an active interest in their politics. So what? Does that make me the definitive authority on US politics? No, it doesn't, No more than you being a UK resident interested in UK politics makes you the definitive authority on politics in the UK. That's just argumentum ad verecundiam.

Hello there strawmen, you'd disappeared for a while, nice to see you rearing your heads again.

I never claimed to be a definitive authority. Just that I knew more about it than you.

The fact that Wikipedia was your go to source kind of tells me that you don't have a Ph.D in comparative political science.

Me being a resident of the UK that actively follows my countries politics trumps your last minute Wikipedia acquired knowledge.

I live here, I can tell you that the BNP doesn't have the kind of sway you're suggesting.

You also (wilfully?) misrepresented the figures you got from wiki.

Claiming that the BNP had 14% of the total British votes cast when they actually had 1.9%. 14.6% was what they managed to get in one constituency.

All this is kinda pointing to, the not too unreasonable assumption, that you're not a graduate of political science.

To put it bluntly, I'd be surprised if you were a graduate of anything.

(That is based solely on your attitude throughout this entire fiasco.)

Well I don't know about the two of you but I've thoroughly enjoyed this 'fiasco'. With the witty barbs and all it was a bit like reading a script for 'House'. BDKJ seems to be making the very simple point that racism and xenophobia are just as prevalent in British politics as they are in American politics and has offered certain facts which seem to back up the fact that nationalist parties have gained support among at least a minority of Britons. I don't really see how that can be argued given the evidence presented. Now what I find most interesting is the fact that a previous thread had led me to believe (correct me if I'm wrong BDKJ) that BDKJ was a British expat living in the States. Knowing that, Abandon, would you still have argued so vehemently (or argued at all) against the mere assertion that American and British politics have a similar level of racism and xenophobia? Did the flag in his profile make all the difference?

If nothing else this thread has completely disabused me of the notion that Britons are any less nationalistic than American and for that I'm glad I read it. Personally I think there will come a day when we as a global interconnected society decide that nationalism as a concept should be viewed in much the same way as elitism.

That wasn't his point at all. His point was that

More extremist than the Brits and the BNP? Doesn't the "N" in "BNP" stand for "nationalist?" At least the Yanks don't have a major political party proudly founded on the principles of racism and xenophobia.

That's what set me off.

I said on numerous occasions that the US and the UK both had racist idiots intermingling with the rest of us. But saying that simply because there is a party dedicated to it in the UK doesn't reflect us as a nation, for the simple fact that we ascribe to the principle of 'freedom of assembly'. The US does not.

If he'd have simply said the US is not more nationalist as a whole than the UK. I'd have agreed with him.

That is unfortunately not what he said.

I also didn't check his profile. So no, that didn't effect my judgement of him.

Again, you either twist my words or fail to comprehend them. I posed the rhetorical question: "More extremist than the Brits and the BNP?" in response to the poster claiming that the Americans were nationalistic (in all fairness and in the interest of accuracy, the poster glibly began to type "nationalist," struck it, and replaced it with "patriotic'). Which then and now struck me as someone living in a glass house and throwing stones.

And why are you claiming that there's no right to assembly in the United States? The First Amendment to the Constitution clearly states:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

I actually quoted him to you. You know, the guy who was 'joking'.

He didn't mention anything about politics. Merely that Americans as a whole are very patriotic. Verging on nationalistic.

You know... the use of (often untrue) stereotyping as a joke?

Pretty common.

And the part of your comment I highlighted tells your tell well enough. I twisted nothing. Pure copypasta.

I don't know a thing that you tell me I know. I already told that I didn't see the humor (or "humour" -- spell it any fucking way you want).

And I'm not accusing you of twisting his words. I'm accusing you of twisting my words.

 

[0986875533423]

You guys even made up your own sports, because you didn't want to play with the rest of the world

Would we really want to play with them though? REALLY really?

Urgh, Europeans don't wash XD

At least you play nice with Canada. Shame it's Ice Hockey...

Also... do you guys seriously play lacrosse? I saw it on American Pie, and I've always wanted to ask.

How should I know? I'm a brit, hence my editing of my post to include pointedly-placed bolding.

Oooooh. In which case, I really apologise. Really really.

It's cool. I wouldn't have edited it if I weren't worried about its ambiguity, so I'm not going to go on about someone doing exactly what I thought they might do.

 

[Yankeedoodles]

Well I don't know about the two of you but I've thoroughly enjoyed this 'fiasco'. With the witty barbs and all it was a bit like reading a script for 'House'. BDKJ seems to be making the very simple point that racism and xenophobia are just as prevalent in British politics as they are in American politics and has offered certain facts which seem to back up the fact that nationalist parties have gained support among at least a minority of Britons. I don't really see how that can be argued given the evidence presented. Now what I find most interesting is the fact that a previous thread had led me to believe (correct me if I'm wrong BDKJ) that BDKJ was a British expat living in the States. Knowing that, Abandon, would you still have argued so vehemently (or argued at all) against the mere assertion that American and British politics have a similar level of racism and xenophobia? Did the flag in his profile make all the difference?

If nothing else this thread has completely disabused me of the notion that Britons are any less nationalistic than American and for that I'm glad I read it. Personally I think there will come a day when we as a global interconnected society decide that nationalism as a concept should be viewed in much the same way as elitism.

Dunno about those guys, but I lived in America and the UK (and Australia as well) and I'd easily say that on a ground, personal level, the Brits are by far the least nationalistic... that is, until foreigners try and move in on their territory (ironic much?)

Most Brits don't own a flag, nor would dream of ever waving one outside of a football match, and close to none know the national anthem. Considering in America that's basic knowledge, and they even brainwa... I mean, require children to salute a flag every morning in school, while reeling off some diatribe about how good it is to live in a slightly different location to everyone else, the Brits aren't nationalist at all. They prove you can be a small minded bigot, racist and xenophobe, while still being self depreciating about your own country. Quite a feat.

I'm not nationalist, and I think that the concept is ridiculous. However, you can't accuse the vast majority of Brits of being nationalist when we aren't, especially compared to America. You guys even made up your own sports, because you didn't want to play with the rest of the world

Well I and I would wager to bet most Americans have no idea what the middle of the Star Spangled Banner is. We just sort of mumble it when it's played at sporting events. But looking at the sum total of this thread, can you honestly say that this does not reek of British nationalism?

Speaking to American nationalism specifically, I can understand why it may be annoying to a number of people in other countries. It annoys me on occasion. But, sadly, there are a number of social issues still very present in this country which nationalism is quite effective at overcoming. Hopefully we'll push past those some day but until then I'm afraid the international community will simply have to try to tolerate it.

 

[JDKJ]

I'm glad you think yours are any more informed than mine. But, then again, I've never heard the fishmonger confess that his fish wasn't fresh.

I'm a UK resident and I take an active interest in our politics.

You googled BNP and read a wikipedia article.

............ Yea.

Did you plant cookies in my laptop? How do you know from where I obtained my knowledge of the BNP? Because I cited to wiki doesn't mean that's the sole source of my knowledge. For all you know, I could hold a Ph.D. in Comparative Political Science. Again, you are ignorant of that about which you know absolutely nothing. And I'm a resident of the United States and take an active interest in their politics. So what? Does that make me the definitive authority on US politics? No, it doesn't, No more than you being a UK resident interested in UK politics makes you the definitive authority on politics in the UK. That's just argumentum ad verecundiam.

Hello there strawmen, you'd disappeared for a while, nice to see you rearing your heads again.

I never claimed to be a definitive authority. Just that I knew more about it than you.

The fact that Wikipedia was your go to source kind of tells me that you don't have a Ph.D in comparative political science.

Me being a resident of the UK that actively follows my countries politics trumps your last minute Wikipedia acquired knowledge.

I live here, I can tell you that the BNP doesn't have the kind of sway you're suggesting.

You also (wilfully?) misrepresented the figures you got from wiki.

Claiming that the BNP had 14% of the total British votes cast when they actually had 1.9%. 14.6% was what they managed to get in one constituency.

All this is kinda pointing to, the not too unreasonable assumption, that you're not a graduate of political science.

To put it bluntly, I'd be surprised if you were a graduate of anything.

(That is based solely on your attitude throughout this entire fiasco.)

Well I don't know about the two of you but I've thoroughly enjoyed this 'fiasco'. With the witty barbs and all it was a bit like reading a script for 'House'. BDKJ seems to be making the very simple point that racism and xenophobia are just as prevalent in British politics as they are in American politics and has offered certain facts which seem to back up the fact that nationalist parties have gained support among at least a minority of Britons. I don't really see how that can be argued given the evidence presented. Now what I find most interesting is the fact that a previous thread had led me to believe (correct me if I'm wrong BDKJ) that BDKJ was a British expat living in the States. Knowing that, Abandon, would you still have argued so vehemently (or argued at all) against the mere assertion that American and British politics have a similar level of racism and xenophobia? Did the flag in his profile make all the difference?

If nothing else this thread has completely disabused me of the notion that Britons are any less nationalistic than American and for that I'm glad I read it. Personally I think there will come a day when we as a global interconnected society decide that nationalism as a concept should be viewed in much the same way as elitism.

That wasn't his point at all. His point was that

More extremist than the Brits and the BNP? Doesn't the "N" in "BNP" stand for "nationalist?" At least the Yanks don't have a major political party proudly founded on the principles of racism and xenophobia.

That's what set me off.

I said on numerous occasions that the US and the UK both had racist idiots intermingling with the rest of us. But saying that simply because there is a party dedicated to it in the UK doesn't reflect us as a nation, for the simple fact that we ascribe to the principle of 'freedom of assembly'. The US does not.

If he'd have simply said the US is not more nationalist as a whole than the UK. I'd have agreed with him.

That is unfortunately not what he said.

I also didn't check his profile. So no, that didn't effect my judgement of him.

Again, you either twist my words or fail to comprehend them. I posed the rhetorical question: "More extremist than the Brits and the BNP?" in response to the poster claiming that the Americans were nationalistic (in all fairness and in the interest of accuracy, the poster glibly began to type "nationalist," struck it, and replaced it with "patriotic'). Which then and now struck me as someone living in a glass house and throwing stones.

And why are you claiming that there's no right to assembly in the United States? The First Amendment to the Constitution clearly states:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

I actually quoted him to you. You know, the guy who was 'joking'.

He didn't mention anything about politics. Merely that Americans as a whole are very patriotic. Verging on nationalistic.

You know... the use of (often untrue) stereotyping as a joke?

Pretty common.

And the part of your comment I highlighted tells your tell well enough. I twisted nothing. Pure copypasta.

I don't know a thing that you tell me I know. I already told that I didn't see the humor (or "humour" -- spell it nay fucking way you want).

You don't need to get the humour.

It's there.

Also, I edited this bit in to the last post because I forgot it.

Edit. Forgot to reply to this bit.

America has basically got a 2 party system. You don't get (true) fringe parties in America because everyone votes democrat or republican.

Never heard of Ralph Nader and the Green Party? Never heard of Ross Perot? Never heard of Steve Forbes? You wanna argue American politics with me? You can't! I live in the US and take a keen interest in US politics. You live in the UK and, at best, have to Google some crap offa wiki. I'm the authority and you don't know the difference between shit and marmite about US politics. I win, you lose.

 

[Dragonsoulq]

then I said "Oatmeal, are you crazy?!"

oh, sorry.... carry on.

(Can't we just say YMMV?)

 

[Yankeedoodles]

I'm glad you think yours are any more informed than mine. But, then again, I've never heard the fishmonger confess that his fish wasn't fresh.

I'm a UK resident and I take an active interest in our politics.

You googled BNP and read a wikipedia article.

............ Yea.

Did you plant cookies in my laptop? How do you know from where I obtained my knowledge of the BNP? Because I cited to wiki doesn't mean that's the sole source of my knowledge. For all you know, I could hold a Ph.D. in Comparative Political Science. Again, you are ignorant of that about which you know absolutely nothing. And I'm a resident of the United States and take an active interest in their politics. So what? Does that make me the definitive authority on US politics? No, it doesn't, No more than you being a UK resident interested in UK politics makes you the definitive authority on politics in the UK. That's just argumentum ad verecundiam.

Hello there strawmen, you'd disappeared for a while, nice to see you rearing your heads again.

I never claimed to be a definitive authority. Just that I knew more about it than you.

The fact that Wikipedia was your go to source kind of tells me that you don't have a Ph.D in comparative political science.

Me being a resident of the UK that actively follows my countries politics trumps your last minute Wikipedia acquired knowledge.

I live here, I can tell you that the BNP doesn't have the kind of sway you're suggesting.

You also (wilfully?) misrepresented the figures you got from wiki.

Claiming that the BNP had 14% of the total British votes cast when they actually had 1.9%. 14.6% was what they managed to get in one constituency.

All this is kinda pointing to, the not too unreasonable assumption, that you're not a graduate of political science.

To put it bluntly, I'd be surprised if you were a graduate of anything.

(That is based solely on your attitude throughout this entire fiasco.)

Well I don't know about the two of you but I've thoroughly enjoyed this 'fiasco'. With the witty barbs and all it was a bit like reading a script for 'House'. BDKJ seems to be making the very simple point that racism and xenophobia are just as prevalent in British politics as they are in American politics and has offered certain facts which seem to back up the fact that nationalist parties have gained support among at least a minority of Britons. I don't really see how that can be argued given the evidence presented. Now what I find most interesting is the fact that a previous thread had led me to believe (correct me if I'm wrong BDKJ) that BDKJ was a British expat living in the States. Knowing that, Abandon, would you still have argued so vehemently (or argued at all) against the mere assertion that American and British politics have a similar level of racism and xenophobia? Did the flag in his profile make all the difference?

If nothing else this thread has completely disabused me of the notion that Britons are any less nationalistic than American and for that I'm glad I read it. Personally I think there will come a day when we as a global interconnected society decide that nationalism as a concept should be viewed in much the same way as elitism.

No, you are correct. I was born and raised in a former British colony. I didn't migrate to the States until I was in my late teens. I still reside here as a registered alien. Although I long ago qualified to apply for naturalized US citizenship, I refuse to do so. The thought of being a US citizen is repugnant to me. Who would I cheer for during the Test cricket series?

Ha. Well as someone who clearly has an interest in politics I'd highly recommend rethinking that position. After all, you're being taxed without any representation in what your money is going to fund. I understand nationalism is a big part of a lot of people's sense of identity but citizenship does not have to be what defines your national identity. Is it really worth not having a say in the government that has power over important aspects of your daily existence?

 

[JDKJ]

I'm glad you think yours are any more informed than mine. But, then again, I've never heard the fishmonger confess that his fish wasn't fresh.

I'm a UK resident and I take an active interest in our politics.

You googled BNP and read a wikipedia article.

............ Yea.

Did you plant cookies in my laptop? How do you know from where I obtained my knowledge of the BNP? Because I cited to wiki doesn't mean that's the sole source of my knowledge. For all you know, I could hold a Ph.D. in Comparative Political Science. Again, you are ignorant of that about which you know absolutely nothing. And I'm a resident of the United States and take an active interest in their politics. So what? Does that make me the definitive authority on US politics? No, it doesn't, No more than you being a UK resident interested in UK politics makes you the definitive authority on politics in the UK. That's just argumentum ad verecundiam.

Hello there strawmen, you'd disappeared for a while, nice to see you rearing your heads again.

I never claimed to be a definitive authority. Just that I knew more about it than you.

The fact that Wikipedia was your go to source kind of tells me that you don't have a Ph.D in comparative political science.

Me being a resident of the UK that actively follows my countries politics trumps your last minute Wikipedia acquired knowledge.

I live here, I can tell you that the BNP doesn't have the kind of sway you're suggesting.

You also (wilfully?) misrepresented the figures you got from wiki.

Claiming that the BNP had 14% of the total British votes cast when they actually had 1.9%. 14.6% was what they managed to get in one constituency.

All this is kinda pointing to, the not too unreasonable assumption, that you're not a graduate of political science.

To put it bluntly, I'd be surprised if you were a graduate of anything.

(That is based solely on your attitude throughout this entire fiasco.)

Well I don't know about the two of you but I've thoroughly enjoyed this 'fiasco'. With the witty barbs and all it was a bit like reading a script for 'House'. BDKJ seems to be making the very simple point that racism and xenophobia are just as prevalent in British politics as they are in American politics and has offered certain facts which seem to back up the fact that nationalist parties have gained support among at least a minority of Britons. I don't really see how that can be argued given the evidence presented. Now what I find most interesting is the fact that a previous thread had led me to believe (correct me if I'm wrong BDKJ) that BDKJ was a British expat living in the States. Knowing that, Abandon, would you still have argued so vehemently (or argued at all) against the mere assertion that American and British politics have a similar level of racism and xenophobia? Did the flag in his profile make all the difference?

If nothing else this thread has completely disabused me of the notion that Britons are any less nationalistic than American and for that I'm glad I read it. Personally I think there will come a day when we as a global interconnected society decide that nationalism as a concept should be viewed in much the same way as elitism.

No, you are correct. I was born and raised in a former British colony. I didn't migrate to the States until I was in my late teens. I still reside here as a registered alien. Although I long ago qualified to apply for naturalized US citizenship, I refuse to do so. The thought of being a US citizen is repugnant to me. Who would I cheer for during the Test cricket series?

Ha. Well as someone who clearly has an interest in politics I'd highly recommend rethinking that position. After all, you're being taxed without any representation in what your money is going to fund. I understand nationalism is a big part of a lot of people's sense of identity but citizenship does not have to be what defines your national identity. Is it really worth not having a say in the government that has power over important aspects of your daily existence?

More than the inability to vote, it's the hassle from TSA at the airport when I present my passport that bothers me. I always end up "randomly" selected for the special search room. : P

 

[Verlander]

Well I don't know about the two of you but I've thoroughly enjoyed this 'fiasco'. With the witty barbs and all it was a bit like reading a script for 'House'. BDKJ seems to be making the very simple point that racism and xenophobia are just as prevalent in British politics as they are in American politics and has offered certain facts which seem to back up the fact that nationalist parties have gained support among at least a minority of Britons. I don't really see how that can be argued given the evidence presented. Now what I find most interesting is the fact that a previous thread had led me to believe (correct me if I'm wrong BDKJ) that BDKJ was a British expat living in the States. Knowing that, Abandon, would you still have argued so vehemently (or argued at all) against the mere assertion that American and British politics have a similar level of racism and xenophobia? Did the flag in his profile make all the difference?

If nothing else this thread has completely disabused me of the notion that Britons are any less nationalistic than American and for that I'm glad I read it. Personally I think there will come a day when we as a global interconnected society decide that nationalism as a concept should be viewed in much the same way as elitism.

Dunno about those guys, but I lived in America and the UK (and Australia as well) and I'd easily say that on a ground, personal level, the Brits are by far the least nationalistic... that is, until foreigners try and move in on their territory (ironic much?)

Most Brits don't own a flag, nor would dream of ever waving one outside of a football match, and close to none know the national anthem. Considering in America that's basic knowledge, and they even brainwa... I mean, require children to salute a flag every morning in school, while reeling off some diatribe about how good it is to live in a slightly different location to everyone else, the Brits aren't nationalist at all. They prove you can be a small minded bigot, racist and xenophobe, while still being self depreciating about your own country. Quite a feat.

I'm not nationalist, and I think that the concept is ridiculous. However, you can't accuse the vast majority of Brits of being nationalist when we aren't, especially compared to America. You guys even made up your own sports, because you didn't want to play with the rest of the world

Well I and I would wager to bet most Americans have no idea what the middle of the Star Spangled Banner is. We just sort of mumble it when it's played at sporting events. But looking at the sum total of this thread, can you honestly say that this does not reek of British nationalism?

Speaking to American nationalism specifically, I can understand why it may be annoying to a number of people in other countries. It annoys me on occasion. But, sadly, there are a number of social issues still very present in this country which nationalism is quite effective at overcoming. Hopefully we'll push past those some day but until then I'm afraid the international community will simply have to try to tolerate it.

No, I wouldn't say this thread reeks of British nationalism. I think it reeks of slight xenophobia, but more than that, it reeks of boyish competition.

The thing is, (and this is what America is going to need to put up with), the US has entered the homes of every western country, in its media, its products and its way of life. It's like America has infiltrated us all. It's like we all know you personally, and don't realise that you are a very different nation, and are as foreign as any other country can be, especially in your personal attitudes. And all of this feeling of familiarity goes double for us English speaking countries - we don't even get a dubbed version of your stuff, it's not necessary. You speak to us on a daily basis in your own voices, in our very homes, in our cinema, in what we eat or drink, and in how we now live our lives. And so that makes us brothers. Unfortunately, you're the brother who got all the breaks in life. WE are the runty one who can never get the girl. So every time we get a success, yeah we rub it in your faces. Like this thread. I think we're entitled to. We are mass consumers of what you export, so it's nice to be appreciated too. Add to that general British competitiveness, and the fact that most Brits are kinda rude as a way of life, and you get threads like this. It isn't a nationalist thing, it's more of a society kinda thing. We aren't like this because we love Britain, we're like this because, frankly, Britain doesn't have much worth loving any more, and so we take full advantage of our successes. We'll still be drinking Coca Cola tomorrow, and watching awful remakes of good foreign language films, but allow us Dr Who today

EDIT: Ask any Brit in person the second line of the anthem, and look at their confused faces... it's not sung in schools, nor taught. Most schools won't own a British flag at all. What's the point? It's a difficult comparison, being very different countries, but you can't compare English nationalism, as it doesn't exist. The BNP and EDL and that a just fronts for racist parties. They don't give a shit about "nationalism" or patriotism.

 

[Yankeedoodles]

I'm glad you think yours are any more informed than mine. But, then again, I've never heard the fishmonger confess that his fish wasn't fresh.

I'm a UK resident and I take an active interest in our politics.

You googled BNP and read a wikipedia article.

............ Yea.

Did you plant cookies in my laptop? How do you know from where I obtained my knowledge of the BNP? Because I cited to wiki doesn't mean that's the sole source of my knowledge. For all you know, I could hold a Ph.D. in Comparative Political Science. Again, you are ignorant of that about which you know absolutely nothing. And I'm a resident of the United States and take an active interest in their politics. So what? Does that make me the definitive authority on US politics? No, it doesn't, No more than you being a UK resident interested in UK politics makes you the definitive authority on politics in the UK. That's just argumentum ad verecundiam.

Hello there strawmen, you'd disappeared for a while, nice to see you rearing your heads again.

I never claimed to be a definitive authority. Just that I knew more about it than you.

The fact that Wikipedia was your go to source kind of tells me that you don't have a Ph.D in comparative political science.

Me being a resident of the UK that actively follows my countries politics trumps your last minute Wikipedia acquired knowledge.

I live here, I can tell you that the BNP doesn't have the kind of sway you're suggesting.

You also (wilfully?) misrepresented the figures you got from wiki.

Claiming that the BNP had 14% of the total British votes cast when they actually had 1.9%. 14.6% was what they managed to get in one constituency.

All this is kinda pointing to, the not too unreasonable assumption, that you're not a graduate of political science.

To put it bluntly, I'd be surprised if you were a graduate of anything.

(That is based solely on your attitude throughout this entire fiasco.)

Well I don't know about the two of you but I've thoroughly enjoyed this 'fiasco'. With the witty barbs and all it was a bit like reading a script for 'House'. BDKJ seems to be making the very simple point that racism and xenophobia are just as prevalent in British politics as they are in American politics and has offered certain facts which seem to back up the fact that nationalist parties have gained support among at least a minority of Britons. I don't really see how that can be argued given the evidence presented. Now what I find most interesting is the fact that a previous thread had led me to believe (correct me if I'm wrong BDKJ) that BDKJ was a British expat living in the States. Knowing that, Abandon, would you still have argued so vehemently (or argued at all) against the mere assertion that American and British politics have a similar level of racism and xenophobia? Did the flag in his profile make all the difference?

If nothing else this thread has completely disabused me of the notion that Britons are any less nationalistic than American and for that I'm glad I read it. Personally I think there will come a day when we as a global interconnected society decide that nationalism as a concept should be viewed in much the same way as elitism.

No, you are correct. I was born and raised in a former British colony. I didn't migrate to the States until I was in my late teens. I still reside here as a registered alien. Although I long ago qualified to apply for naturalized US citizenship, I refuse to do so. The thought of being a US citizen is repugnant to me. Who would I cheer for during the Test cricket series?

Ha. Well as someone who clearly has an interest in politics I'd highly recommend rethinking that position. After all, you're being taxed without any representation in what your money is going to fund. I understand nationalism is a big part of a lot of people's sense of identity but citizenship does not have to be what defines your national identity. Is it really worth not having a say in the government that has power over important aspects of your daily existence?

More than the inability to vote, it's the hassle from TSA at the airport when I present my passport that bothers me. : P

Ugh, I can imagine.