Doctor Who: Why does everyone hate River Song? *spoilers abound*

[MightyRabbit]

HUGE SPOILERS AHEAD

Let's see, Doctor's one true love, doesn't mind her using guns, his fate is inextricably tied to her, she's secretly the lost child of his two best friends, she's far more competent and knowledgeable than any other companion ever, even the Doctor at times, gets to make an emotionless Dalek to beg for mercy...She trips a good few Mary Sue alarms.

BUT, with every adventure we moving further back in her timeline and get to see how she got to be so badass and developed into being that way, so I find she gets less annoying as she goes on. Not that the her-centric episodes are any good yet, she's pretty much ran her course as far as interesting character stuff for now and needs some time to get forgotten and mysterious again before they bring her back out.

 

[The Diabolical Biz]

I hate her smug attitude, the fact that she is too fucking good at everything, and my own personal bugbear:

'Because it's fun.'

I really, really hate that as a motive for a character. I just think it's stupid and lazy and it pisses me off to no end. It was the one gripe I had with Moriarty in Sherlock.

Well... Have you never done anything, simply because it is fun? Have you never based a huge portion of your time on something, simply because it is fun?

What I think is important to remember is that they are supposed to act like normal human beings from time to time, and normal human beings just do stuff for shit and gigglez. We have all these overdeveloped characters so it is good to have a "normal" person there (Yes, she is by far the most "normal" of all characters) to counter them all.

And to spin this to Moriarty, it fits him perfectly. Imagine being one of the smartest people on earth, and everyone else is just a small ant compared to you. There is a big chance you would become an evil mastermind and have fun crushing them. Sherlock himself is just the same as Moriarty but he found another way to entertain himself.

but OT! I personally love River Song, I thought the story around her was good, even though I could smell the twist a kilometer away. She can be a bit annoying with the whole "spoiler" thing. She knows way too much. But that is also a good thing. It gives a counterpart to the doctor which was badly needed after DoctorDonna.

As true as that is - and I see where you're coming from - I don't let it motivate my every action. It's all a matter of preference, and I prefer my villains evil as opposed to sprightly and bouncy and camp and clearly written by Moffat.

I'm just not really a fan of his writing really, but if you are power to you!

And River Song just plain annoys me, simple as.

EDIT: Also I get that Moriarty's nature made sense within the reworking of the character, which is why I said that I preferred the Moriarty of the books.

 

[winginson]

She annoys me as it seems sometimes that the writer just copy-pasted the tvtropes entry for 'Mary Sue' on River's character sheet.

 

[Hazy992]

I don't know what it is about her, she's just really annoying. She just turns up all the time and it gets on my nerves. I think part of it is because they try and play her as some sort of comic relief (she's not funny!), or as a badass mo'fucka (she's a middle aged woman, it just doesn't work).

Not to mention the romance between her and The Doctor just seems really weird >_<

 

[Knight Captain Kerr]

She is poorly written. Everytime she says "Spoilers" I want to rip her head off. She is just full of herself and thinks she is perfect and better then everyone else. She is pretty much a self insert Mary Sue fan fiction character. I wish she would just die, oh wait.

I really like Matt but stop having him in things that have River Song, she just ruins an episode for me.

 

[Aetera]

As many others have said, I hate her because she is a Mary Sue. She is so overpowered and flippant about every situation that she is in that it trivializes the entire ordeal. There can't be any dramatic tension when she's in a scene because you know she can just pull out a pistol, blow away a room full of evil aliens effortlessly, scare off a Dalek or two, then flawlessly pilot the Tardis away. All without breaking a nail.

I actually sat down and tried to come up with some trait that would make her MORE of a Mary Sue, and I couldn't think of any. She even has the "long-lost relative of a main character(s)" thing that most actual Mary Sue authors even think is too cliche now.

 

[CrazyBlaze]

I kinda like her. The first time I saw her there was this whole huge mystery behind her and it intrigued me. However, lately she just doesn't feel right. I think part of it is that the doctor and her don't really have the same chemistry of love as Rory and Amy do. I get from time to time, depending on where they meet like their first encounters with each other, they are not in love with the other yet but still. I feel like she is more the doctor's little sister or something and not his huge love interest.

 

[WolfThomas]

River Song is pretty much Cable (they even both have fiery redheads for mothers), and she's just as polarizing as he is.

 

[Aetera]

River Song is pretty much Cable (they even both have fiery redheads for mothers), and she's just as polarizing as he is.

So if River is Cable...

Ha.

The first image that popped in my head is that of Doctor Deadpool flying the Tardis back in time to meet Bea Arthur or something. I thank you for that image, good sir.

 

[Fudj]

I dislike how Stephen Moffat pretty much made the whole she is part timelord completely pointless when she gives up her regenerations, it was just another example of how he creates a really good idea then just cant finish it....he's like doctor Who's stephen King.

 

[Magister Mundi]

For me, it's the fact that there's show I like to watch. It's called "Doctor Who," and it features a fellow by the name of the Doctor. He's one of the last remaining Time Lords, and with his TARDIS he also happens to be something close to a demigod (though this rarely ends well for him). He travels around space and time saving the universe, going on grand adventures, and living one of the most painfully lonely existences of any character in the Whoniverse, with the sole exception of a certain Captain. It's a pretty great show, and has kept me watching for many seasons, even if I sometimes don't care for a particular version of the Doctor.

But see, there appears to be this other show about this lady named River Song. She's quite the superhero, and also seems to know the Doctor pretty well. Occasionally, the Doctor guest stars on her show as her companion. Which would be a neat parallel, if it wasn't for the fact that her show is apparently ALSO called Doctor Who.

Very confusing.

 

[Tallim]

River is an ok character, fun in small doses. Unfortunately Moffat believes that the show should be mainly about everyone except the Doctor which is why its popularity is starting to slip since Davies stopped guiding the show.

Well that and Moffat really can't stay focussed on any plot he makes, constantly undermines established rules, even ones established by himself.

 

[DeimosMasque]

I do think Moffat rushed her character arch which could have lasted until the very end of his run as head writer on NuWho, but I don't hater her so much as I feel she was a bit overused during Moffat's run.

Least she's not Bella... er.. I mean Rose.

 

[Dangit2019]

The first time she popped up, in the library, that worked.

The very next time you see her, they've taken the Weeping Angels, the only really good monster from New Who, and retconned them ridiculously. And then she lands the TARDIS quietly because every single other person to ever fly a TARDIS is so stupid they leave the brakes on, except for her.

Things get worse from there.

It's not just the characters fault (though she's pretty bad), she tends to end up in really rubbish episodes.

I thought that joke was actually pretty funny (similar to the Neil Gaiman episode where the TARDIS core finally gets to tell the Doctor that he's been opening the door the wrong way), but what annoyed me is that she later operated the TARDIS and it made the noise. So at one point you're sarcastically noting other's mistakes but later you do the same?

As for the character herself, I really wish they hadn't drawn her out over 3 freaking seasons. She's part Time Lord and is Rory and Amy's daughter. That didn't need endless exposition about "things better left unknown" and the infamous "spoilers". I still think that she was pretty good as just an adventuring partner due to her usual independence and quick thinking. I never like it when a companion who's been with the Doctor for years freaks out at the smallest problem (for instance, every time something sparks on the TARDIS the companion will ring in "OMG WHAT'S GOING ON").

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

As has been stated quite a bit, she's a Mary Sue of ghastly proportions. Let's go down the list of Common Mary Sue Traits on TV Tropes, and see how many she qualifies for. I'll use spoilers, as this is going to get long.

Spoiler: Personality

Personality less important than how other characters react to them: Check

Highly persuasive: Check

Friend to all living things: No check

Brave and cheerful (despite a rough past), or constantly mopey and depressed: Check

Incorruptible: No Check

Occasionally a jerk, with no one calling her out on it: Check

Only flaws are stubborness and a bad temper, without being affected by either: no check

Feels "cursed to be awesome": no check

Total score: 4 out of 8, or 50%

Spoiler: Skills

Inexplicable and/or poorly defined skills: Check

More skilled than a canon character, regardless of whether it makes sense: Check (see: flying the TARDIS better than The Doctor)

Perfect singing voice: Undetermined

A goddess in bed: Undetermined

Speaks several languages fluently: Check

Skilled in martial arts: Undetermined

Random magical powers: No Check

Absurd natural athletic abilities: Undetermined

Never makes anyone jealous: check

Always great fashion sense/always looking beautiful: check

Total score: 5 out of 10, or 50%

Spoiler: physical appearance

So beautiful, it's a curse: no check

Unusual hair and/or eye color: no check

Kaleidoscope eyes: no check

Slim, yet well-bosomed: no check

Often wears revealing outfits: check

Loves purple: no check

Total score: 1 out of 6, or 16.7%

Spoiler: accessories

Magic ring: no check

Exotic weapons: check (poison lipstick)

Access to huge mecha: no check

Always has web access: check (though to be fair, all the characters do through the TARDIS)

Has a duplicate of a "one of a kind" weapon: check (Silence in the Library, sonic screwdriver)

Total: 3 out of 5, or 60%

Spoiler: canon character relationships

Wish fulfillment character: no check

Offspring of a canon character: check

Has people constantly talking about how awesome she is: no check

Previously-established personalities change around her: check

Special treatment in-universe: check

Serves as a hyperactive, immature female to bring a brooding or troubled character out of his shell: strangely specific, but a check

Relationships of some kind with multiple character: check

Total score: 5 out of 7, or 71.4%

Spoiler: Story Elements

Story revolves around her: check

No real flaws: check

"The Chosen One": check

Around the author's age: check (she seems to be in her mid forties, Moffat is 51)

Dark and troubled past, to a ridiculous degree: check

Converts an entire population to the side of good: no check

Half-human: check (other half is Time Lord)

Redeems the villain: no check

Is a princess: no check

If she ever does anything wrong, is instantly regretful, and easily forgiven: check

Has some trait setting her apart from the rest of her race: check

Total score: 8 out of 10, or 80%(!)

Spoiler: names

Named after the author: no check

Overly long name: no check

Name of a gemstone, flower, celestial body, or a pretty color: no check

Unusual spelling of a normal name: no check

Generic Japanese name: no check

Name inconsistent with culture: no check

More name parts than normal for her culture: no check

Feminized form of author's favorite character: no check

Total score: 0 out of 8, or 0% (finally!)

Spoiler: presentation

Large amount of time introducing her by appearance: no check

Constantly has the camera focused on her: check

New words made up to describe her: no check

Parts not involving her rushed past: check

Villain plot ignored in favor of the character: check

Major plot points not involving the character done off-screen: no check

Characters constantly talk about her, when she is off-screen: check

Story done from the POV of the character: seems that way sometimes, but no check

Total score: 4 out of 8, or 50%

Spoiler: author investment in character (last spoiler, I swear)

Character in some way appears in every work by the author: no check

Author takes offense at any criticism of the character: no check

Author upset when favorite character is paired with anyone other than the new character: no check

Total score: 0 out of 3, or 0%

So, after taking out the ones that don't apply (either through medium or genre), River qualifies for 30 traits out of 65, or 46.2% of said traits. That's rather high to apply via coincidence, I think.

 

[Diddy_Mao]

I don't dislike River Song as a character. I think she's fun.

What I don't like is the romance angle, more to the point that for two people who are supposed to be in love and have a romantic/sexual attraction...there's none of it on screen.

Here's a perfect example of what I mean.

I wasn't overly fond of Rose, as a character she tended to get on my nerves more often than not.
But I could at least buy the attraction between The Doctor and Rose Tyler, they built up the relationship and showed the chemistry between the characters.

The Doctor and River Song have none of that. "The Wedding of River Song" had no gravity to it at all because I haven't seen much in the series to lead me to believe that there is any level of attraction between them.

 

[TheFunPolice]

She is just grating. I always felt she kinda seemed like a self insert fanfic character rather than an actual part of the show.

THAT. SO MUCH THAT. I've been trying to think of the reasons she pisses me off so much, but I couldn't put it into the right words, but that just nailed it, Thank you..

But I honestly think she's one of the main reasons I gave up watching Doctor Who. I'm still upset about Tennant, but Matt could have been a good actor...I wouldn't know..I was too busy wanting to strangle every other Character in the series..

Also the writing appears to have gone down hill..Feel free to argue with me on that.. Seeing as I've never really watched it enough to actually tell for certain, but it looks like it's taken a turn for the worse