Doctor Who: Why does everyone hate River Song? *spoilers abound*

DaughteroftheTARDIS

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Jun 8, 2015
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thebobmaster said:
As has been stated quite a bit, she's a Mary Sue of ghastly proportions. Let's go down the list of Common Mary Sue Traits on TV Tropes, and see how many she qualifies for. I'll use spoilers, as this is going to get long.

Personality less important than how other characters react to them: Check

Highly persuasive: Check

Friend to all living things: No check

Brave and cheerful (despite a rough past), or constantly mopey and depressed: Check

Incorruptible: No Check

Occasionally a jerk, with no one calling her out on it: Check

Only flaws are stubborness and a bad temper, without being affected by either: no check

Feels "cursed to be awesome": no check

Total score: 4 out of 8, or 50%

Inexplicable and/or poorly defined skills: Check

More skilled than a canon character, regardless of whether it makes sense: Check (see: flying the TARDIS better than The Doctor)

Perfect singing voice: Undetermined

A goddess in bed: Undetermined

Speaks several languages fluently: Check

Skilled in martial arts: Undetermined

Random magical powers: No Check

Absurd natural athletic abilities: Undetermined

Never makes anyone jealous: check

Always great fashion sense/always looking beautiful: check

Total score: 5 out of 10, or 50%

So beautiful, it's a curse: no check

Unusual hair and/or eye color: no check

Kaleidoscope eyes: no check

Slim, yet well-bosomed: no check

Often wears revealing outfits: check

Loves purple: no check

Total score: 1 out of 6, or 16.7%

Magic ring: no check

Exotic weapons: check (poison lipstick)

Access to huge mecha: no check

Always has web access: check (though to be fair, all the characters do through the TARDIS)

Has a duplicate of a "one of a kind" weapon: check (Silence in the Library, sonic screwdriver)

Total: 3 out of 5, or 60%

Wish fulfillment character: no check

Offspring of a canon character: check

Has people constantly talking about how awesome she is: no check

Previously-established personalities change around her: check

Special treatment in-universe: check

Serves as a hyperactive, immature female to bring a brooding or troubled character out of his shell: strangely specific, but a check

Relationships of some kind with multiple character: check

Total score: 5 out of 7, or 71.4%

Story revolves around her: check

No real flaws: check

"The Chosen One": check

Around the author's age: check (she seems to be in her mid forties, Moffat is 51)

Dark and troubled past, to a ridiculous degree: check

Converts an entire population to the side of good: no check

Half-human: check (other half is Time Lord)

Redeems the villain: no check

Is a princess: no check

If she ever does anything wrong, is instantly regretful, and easily forgiven: check

Has some trait setting her apart from the rest of her race: check

Total score: 8 out of 10, or 80%(!)

Named after the author: no check

Overly long name: no check

Name of a gemstone, flower, celestial body, or a pretty color: no check

Unusual spelling of a normal name: no check

Generic Japanese name: no check

Name inconsistent with culture: no check

More name parts than normal for her culture: no check

Feminized form of author's favorite character: no check

Total score: 0 out of 8, or 0% (finally!)

Large amount of time introducing her by appearance: no check

Constantly has the camera focused on her: check

New words made up to describe her: no check

Parts not involving her rushed past: check

Villain plot ignored in favor of the character: check

Major plot points not involving the character done off-screen: no check

Characters constantly talk about her, when she is off-screen: check

Story done from the POV of the character: seems that way sometimes, but no check

Total score: 4 out of 8, or 50%

Character in some way appears in every work by the author: no check

Author takes offense at any criticism of the character: no check

Author upset when favorite character is paired with anyone other than the new character: no check

Total score: 0 out of 3, or 0%

So, after taking out the ones that don't apply (either through medium or genre), River qualifies for 30 traits out of 65, or 46.2% of said traits. That's rather high to apply via coincidence, I think.
Yes, but some of these are easy to figure out if thought about:
Inexplicable or poorly defined skills: if this is a reference to her fighting abilities, then remember - she was trained by Madame Kovarian to kill the Doctor.
More skilled than a canon character, regardless of whether it makes sense: she can fly the TARDIS so well because she is the child of the TARDIS, and the TARDIS speaks to her - literally.

Speaks several languages fluently: so does anyone who was ever onboard the TARDIS for a long time

Always great fashion sense/always looking beautiful: 51st century woman

Often wears revealing outfits: 51st century woman

Exotic weapons: Sarah Jane Smith has her sonic lipstick, why is River any different?

Has a duplicate of a "one of a kind" weapon: the Doctor gave her his screwdriver, so technically its still the original

Previously-established personalities change around her: have you ever changed around someone you've fallen in love with?

Serves as a hyperactive, immature female to bring a brooding or troubled character out of his shell: i'd say that its the other way around with River and the Doctor, but ok.....

Relationships of some kind with multiple character: her parents & her husband

Story revolves around her: check

No real flaws: 1) raised to kill the Doctor. 2) obsessed with guns. 3) fear of the Silence(quite an obvious one, but still)
"The Chosen One": once again, not sure how this one applies...

Around the author's age: check (she seems to be in her mid forties, Moffat is 51)

Dark and troubled past, to a ridiculous degree: not gonna argue with this one

If she ever does anything wrong, is instantly regretful, and easily forgiven: TWORS. anyone remember that? didn't regret it at all, no matter how angry the Doctor got...

Has some trait setting her apart from the rest of her race: not sure what this one is...

Characters constantly talk about her, when she is off-screen: Amy, Rory, and the Doctor, and Donna - as they were trying to figure out who she is
 

DaughteroftheTARDIS

New member
Jun 8, 2015
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thebobmaster said:
As has been stated quite a bit, she's a Mary Sue of ghastly proportions. Let's go down the list of Common Mary Sue Traits on TV Tropes, and see how many she qualifies for. I'll use spoilers, as this is going to get long.

Personality less important than how other characters react to them: Check

Highly persuasive: Check

Friend to all living things: No check

Brave and cheerful (despite a rough past), or constantly mopey and depressed: Check

Incorruptible: No Check

Occasionally a jerk, with no one calling her out on it: Check

Only flaws are stubborness and a bad temper, without being affected by either: no check

Feels "cursed to be awesome": no check

Total score: 4 out of 8, or 50%

Inexplicable and/or poorly defined skills: Check

More skilled than a canon character, regardless of whether it makes sense: Check (see: flying the TARDIS better than The Doctor)

Perfect singing voice: Undetermined

A goddess in bed: Undetermined

Speaks several languages fluently: Check

Skilled in martial arts: Undetermined

Random magical powers: No Check

Absurd natural athletic abilities: Undetermined

Never makes anyone jealous: check

Always great fashion sense/always looking beautiful: check

Total score: 5 out of 10, or 50%

So beautiful, it's a curse: no check

Unusual hair and/or eye color: no check

Kaleidoscope eyes: no check

Slim, yet well-bosomed: no check

Often wears revealing outfits: check

Loves purple: no check

Total score: 1 out of 6, or 16.7%

Magic ring: no check

Exotic weapons: check (poison lipstick)

Access to huge mecha: no check

Always has web access: check (though to be fair, all the characters do through the TARDIS)

Has a duplicate of a "one of a kind" weapon: check (Silence in the Library, sonic screwdriver)

Total: 3 out of 5, or 60%

Wish fulfillment character: no check

Offspring of a canon character: check

Has people constantly talking about how awesome she is: no check

Previously-established personalities change around her: check

Special treatment in-universe: check

Serves as a hyperactive, immature female to bring a brooding or troubled character out of his shell: strangely specific, but a check

Relationships of some kind with multiple character: check

Total score: 5 out of 7, or 71.4%

Story revolves around her: check

No real flaws: check

"The Chosen One": check

Around the author's age: check (she seems to be in her mid forties, Moffat is 51)

Dark and troubled past, to a ridiculous degree: check

Converts an entire population to the side of good: no check

Half-human: check (other half is Time Lord)

Redeems the villain: no check

Is a princess: no check

If she ever does anything wrong, is instantly regretful, and easily forgiven: check

Has some trait setting her apart from the rest of her race: check

Total score: 8 out of 10, or 80%(!)

Named after the author: no check

Overly long name: no check

Name of a gemstone, flower, celestial body, or a pretty color: no check

Unusual spelling of a normal name: no check

Generic Japanese name: no check

Name inconsistent with culture: no check

More name parts than normal for her culture: no check

Feminized form of author's favorite character: no check

Total score: 0 out of 8, or 0% (finally!)

Large amount of time introducing her by appearance: no check

Constantly has the camera focused on her: check

New words made up to describe her: no check

Parts not involving her rushed past: check

Villain plot ignored in favor of the character: check

Major plot points not involving the character done off-screen: no check

Characters constantly talk about her, when she is off-screen: check

Story done from the POV of the character: seems that way sometimes, but no check

Total score: 4 out of 8, or 50%

Character in some way appears in every work by the author: no check

Author takes offense at any criticism of the character: no check

Author upset when favorite character is paired with anyone other than the new character: no check

Total score: 0 out of 3, or 0%

So, after taking out the ones that don't apply (either through medium or genre), River qualifies for 30 traits out of 65, or 46.2% of said traits. That's rather high to apply via coincidence, I think.
Yes, but some of these are easy to figure out if thought about:
Inexplicable or poorly defined skills: if this is a reference to her fighting abilities, then remember - she was trained by Madame Kovarian to kill the Doctor.
More skilled than a canon character, regardless of whether it makes sense: she can fly the TARDIS so well because she is the child of the TARDIS, and the TARDIS speaks to her - literally.

Speaks several languages fluently: so does anyone who was ever onboard the TARDIS for a long time

Always great fashion sense/always looking beautiful: 51st century woman

Often wears revealing outfits: 51st century woman

Exotic weapons: Sarah Jane Smith has her sonic lipstick, why is River any different?

Has a duplicate of a "one of a kind" weapon: the Doctor gave her his screwdriver, so technically its still the original

Previously-established personalities change around her: have you ever changed around someone you've fallen in love with?

Serves as a hyperactive, immature female to bring a brooding or troubled character out of his shell: i'd say that its the other way around with River and the Doctor, but ok.....

Relationships of some kind with multiple character: her parents & her husband

Story revolves around her: check

No real flaws: 1) raised to kill the Doctor. 2) obsessed with guns. 3) fear of the Silence(quite an obvious one, but still)
"The Chosen One": once again, not sure how this one applies...

Around the author's age: check (she seems to be in her mid forties, Moffat is 51)

Dark and troubled past, to a ridiculous degree: not gonna argue with this one

If she ever does anything wrong, is instantly regretful, and easily forgiven: TWORS. anyone remember that? didn't regret it at all, no matter how angry the Doctor got...

Has some trait setting her apart from the rest of her race: not sure what this one is...

Characters constantly talk about her, when she is off-screen: Amy, Rory, and the Doctor, and Donna - as they were trying to figure out who she is