Does anyone else find Bioshock Infinite's propaganda posters offensive?

[Imp_Emissary]

I feel like you're forgetting one very important aspect: BioShock is intended to represent dystopic societies. Look at Rapture. It's an obvious perversion of actual Socialist philosophies. If Columbia was the actual utopia it was supposed to be, there wouldn't be any point for the game because everything would be solved peacefully and there would be no conflict. The propaganda is supposed to be inherently fallacious: it's propaganda.

Actually, Rapture was an Objectivist place not a Socialist place. Socialism is "kind of" about everyone sharing, and everyone being part of and helped by the Government. In Rapture the Philosophy was more like "I got mine, Jack.", and sharing was like a sin in Rapture. Well they would have called it a sin you know, if they didn't outlaw religion.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Oh my god guys.. Did any of you see V for Vendetta? They totally misrepresented the UK! Our police have strict guidelines against brutality and yet in the film they totally went around mistreating people and putting black bags over their heads, and they implied that the government is racist! It's an insult, I say, an insult!

No, of course I'm not missing the point. It's totally offensive!

I understand there was a eugenics movement in the United States some time in the 20s, but it's purpose was to breed out the crippled and mentally ill, basically burdens of the state, not promote a particular race; that was just the Nazies. So once again the game is wrongly portraying the US as racist.

Are you fucking kidding me?

It's probably not very clear what that picture represents, but it's basically suggesting that looking like a black person is a sign of hereditary criminality.

Eugenics grew out of 19th century scientific racism and was explicitly anti-misegenation and racist. Try and find me a picture of a black or jewish kid holding his Fitter Families award.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

Which part of "Columbia was made to show the best of the American experiment, but went horribly wrong" did you not understand?

I can't believe this even a thought in someone's head, let alone a fucking thread. The whole point is that its this amazing thing to look at, but in reality is rotten to the core - its also based on political movements at the time. And I hate to break it to you (even though you're missing the point so this is rather irrelevant) but America has tonnes of racism now, let alone 100 years ago.

Actully, this topic has been talked about at least one other time here on the Escapist.
I think people are just missing the point though....

 

[2fish]

Well quick history of discrimination in the US

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1. Blacks beginning in about 1680 when slavery is officially adopted in all colonies.
2. Women beginning with their arrival in 1619 during which time they could not sue, could not own property, and could not start businesses.
3. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) 1830s in which they were driven from New York, to Ohio, to Missouri, to Illinois, and finally to Mexican territory in what would later become Utah.
4. Irish starting with their mass arrivals in the 1840s following the Irish potato famine.
5. Blacks following the Civil War (especially in the South during the Jim Crow Era--1877-1970)
6. Eastern Europeans starting in the 1880s following their immigration to the United States and the opening of Ellis Island.
7. Jews especially during the New Deal when many blamed the Great Depression on Jews and felt they played to large a role in the New Deal (Jew Deal) of President Roosevelt.
8. Blacks again during the civil rights years of 1954-1970.
9. Gays and lesbians beginning in earnest during the later-half of the 1960s.
10. Southeast Asians (the Boat People--Vietnamese, Laotians, Cambodians) especially in 1978 following their arrival in mass following the Vietnam War.
11. Middle Easterners especially following the November 4th kidnapping of 66 hostages in Iran during the Carter administration and following the September 11th attacks on the World Trade Centers, the Pentagon, and the foiled attack on the White House which crashed in western Pennsylvania (Flight 93.)

Looks about right for propoganda not offended by poster more annoyed by truth behind it.


Now after that image I leave you with a happy one

Spoiler

 

[EonEire]

Not really, those types of posters really existed, and if they are drawing inspiration from a certain period then more power to them, I don't think they are actually trying to offend but give a depiction of what the bad guys are like......so you don't mind shooting them in the face!

(PS Im Irish and I find the Irish guy HIGH LARRY US!)

 

[Hammartroll]

Its suppose to be offensive. The place we play in Bioshock Infinite was made and founded by a bunch of (racist) americans that don't believe (or just ignore) the things about America that is completely against racism because they don't like those parts.
You seem to be missing the point friend.

If this was just some personal venture by some rich guy I guess that'd be alright, but I thought the city was supposed to be made by the American government?

 

[MinishArcticFox]

The US has a history of racism and eugenicswas an idea that some circles did pick up mostly in the 1920s. We definitely have both in our history though I wouldn't say eugenics is very prominent racism is. Just try and tell US history without it it's like war you can't. Founding Fathers have always been propaganda symbols (see Glenn Beck) so putting the two together isn't really a huge deal.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

Its suppose to be offensive. The place we play in Bioshock Infinite was made and founded by a bunch of (racist) americans that don't believe (or just ignore) the things about America that is completely against racism because they don't like those parts.
You seem to be missing the point friend.

If this was just some personal venture by some rich guy I guess that'd be alright, but I thought the city was supposed to be made by the American government?

Yes true, but how many non-white male humans were in the American government at this time?

Not a lot.....

Also, like some other person said here. Racial equality was not a very "popular" thing in government.

 

[Hammartroll]

That is the point, really. It's a city that supposed to represent the best the US has to offer and instead has taken refuge in isolatism, xenophobia and nationalism. Which is what makes it so interesting to me.

I guess that is a pretty interesting theam, if that's what the games really about. I just hope that people get this point instead of thinking that the posters actually represent what the founders thought.

There's just so much anti-American sentiment going on already and so much of it is misguided, I'd just don't want it drilled into the public's mind anymore.

 

[MarsProbe]

No.

I really wish I could leave it that, but I've seen what happens so single word posts around these parts, so perhaps not.

Funnily enough, I happen to have blue eyes and white skin, so that second poster could be talking about me, even more so if I was a woman. Fear my superiority, foreign hordes!

But really, given the exaggarated mature of the imagery in the first mural (American figure bathed in a holy aura holding what looks to be the Ten Commandments, surrounded by some rather stunted, for want of a better word, looking foreigners) we're surely not meant to take it too seriously.

Also (warning, worn out cliche is approaching fast!):

It's just a game, so keep your wig on!

 

[2fish]

The history of any other civilization apart from very few (who werent what we would call civilized anyhow) are the same. There are a lot of valid reasons to single out and hate on the US, but those... Eh.

There was no hate in my post only fact and some annoyed looks on my part. I know every country has its pile of shit but this thread is about America thus the slavery in Europe would have served no purpose in this thread.

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I am sorry you think I was attacking your country but damn...


I mean I put in hedgehogs for you people!

 

[Simonism451]

Well quick history of discrimination in the US

.
.
.


1. Blacks beginning in about 1680 when slavery is officially adopted in all colonies.
2. Women beginning with their arrival in 1619 during which time they could not sue, could not own property, and could not start businesses.
3. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) 1830s in which they were driven from New York, to Ohio, to Missouri, to Illinois, and finally to Mexican territory in what would later become Utah.
4. Irish starting with their mass arrivals in the 1840s following the Irish potato famine.
5. Blacks following the Civil War (especially in the South during the Jim Crow Era--1877-1970)
6. Eastern Europeans starting in the 1880s following their immigration to the United States and the opening of Ellis Island.
7. Jews especially during the New Deal when many blamed the Great Depression on Jews and felt they played to large a role in the New Deal (Jew Deal) of President Roosevelt.
8. Blacks again during the civil rights years of 1954-1970.
9. Gays and lesbians beginning in earnest during the later-half of the 1960s.
10. Southeast Asians (the Boat People--Vietnamese, Laotians, Cambodians) especially in 1978 following their arrival in mass following the Vietnam War.
11. Middle Easterners especially following the November 4th kidnapping of 66 hostages in Iran during the Carter administration and following the September 11th attacks on the World Trade Centers, the Pentagon, and the foiled attack on the White House which crashed in western Pennsylvania (Flight 93.)

Looks about right for propoganda not offended by poster more annoyed by truth behind it.


Now after that image I leave you with a happy one

Spoiler

The history of any other civilization apart from very few (who werent what we would call civilized anyhow) are the same. There are a lot of valid reasons to single out and hate on the US, but those... Eh.

As far as I understood the post it is in no way singling out or hating the US, it's just stating that the propaganda posters in Columbia are more or less a correct representation of the mindset in fin-de-ciècle America.

Edit: Ninja'd, indeed

 

[Togs]

The whole point of the game is an attack on the rather laughable concept of American Exceptionalism, the posters are part of that, your arguement suggests you are a proponent of it, or have i misjudged?

Oh and your offended? How terrible for you, do you know if your offended you wake up the next morning with leprosy?
True Story.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

Calm down. I dont think this is an attack on america, its just an attempt to create that HURR RACISM HURR WUT IF AMURICA WAS LKE THIS BUY OUR GAME HURR atmosphere that guarantees sales.

You know what else guarantees sales OP? Controversy. If, for some reason, it was in fact their intent to get people revved up you better ignore them instead of giving them more publicity. I couldnt give a flying fuck either way, I thought the first one was overrated, the second one was lacking in the story department with tacked on multiplayer and I suspect this game wont turn out too different.

Anyone else notice that there are a lot of racist enemies in games just recently? I think it's because we have fewer shooters in WW2 where we get to kill Nazis, so now the industry has to pump more "general" racists in other games. I don't mind getting to kill a few racists jerks in a game, but a few more Dragons or really cool looking Demons would be nice.....

 

[crewman_number_6]

I don't really find it offensive at all because this is a game in which their is a flying city dedicated to the ideals of AMERICA!!! It's sort of like arguing that MLP:FIM is bad because it showcases an oppresive monarchy as an ideal form of goverment.

 

[Hammartroll]

Nothing Offends me anymore.

Also I think you've kind of missed the point of Culumbia. It may believe that it's a utopia for American ideals but also note that it is no longer part of America, it's separated itself from the main country. It's people have a screwed idea of what American ideals even are, they may not agree with mainland America.

Also note that many American people of today are racist and have a very right wing view on immigration, no matter what the history of the country may be.

EDIT:

Spoiler: Just some American propaganda

[img/]http://static.wix.com/media/34ec3eda09e012b44d962bccdd721ea6.wix_mp[/img]
[img/]http://andrikyrychok.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/tojo_like_careless_worker.png[/img]
[img/]http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/464750-4/American+Propaganda+_3_[/img]
Culumbia's pretty close to the real thing.

I wouldn't say close the the real thing, we were at war with these people and they happened to be foreign, we also portrayed the Nazies as ugly or demonic but they were white.

As long as the game portrays this as a corrupted version of the American belief system then it's alright, but I'm afraid they might make a modern day connection to imigration and just say that America is and always was evil.
There's enough hatred going on you know? No need to fan the flames with lies.

 

[CODE-D]

It's propaganda. It's supposed to be misguided and offensive. Go look at US war propaganda from WW2 to get people to support the Pacific war effort.

ninjad....damn.