I've put 750+ hours into Fallout: New Vegas, and I'd like to play the rest of the series.
I just can't get into the first Fallout. Battles with rats and scorpions take forever, and I seem to miss more than I hit. I've been trying to play it for years now, but every time I start a game, I never get much farther than Shady Sands when I give up out of boredom.
Do things pick up later? Like, when you level up more? If not, are there any mods/hacks/cheats/whatever to make me super OP so I can just breeze through the combat? I'm just here for the story anyway. Is Fallout 2 any better in this regard, and if so, should I move right on to that?
If you level up right the fighting gets less tedious after level five or six or so. But Fallout is a slow game and the battles in the late game can get pretty sloggy when you need several turns to take down an enemy and there are upwards of 15 enemies bearing down on you. It is a an old school RPG and its' age is showing today.
Fallout 2 is worse, in that game you don't get a decent weapon until a few hours in so unless you are doing a melee build the combat is unbearably tedious for the first ten or so hours.
If you don't find it enjoyable at this point, it probably won't improve for you. It's definitely not a game for everyone. I know people who think it's one of the finest games ever made, and I know people who think it is poorly aged trash.
So far the only reason for boredom you've given is that battles are too hard for you. 'Git gud' aside, I'd suggest optimizing your character for specific combat role from the get go, like maxing your agility and dumping a lot in pistols to have high accuracy early on. You can also work on improving your tactics, keep meelee enemies at a distance and use throwables for crowd control. Other than that, if you still dislike the combat system, you might try to avoid it when possible, investing more into stealth and evasion as well as trading and charisma.
For cheating you can use memory editors like ArtMoney to max your states. It actually saved my playthrough when I saved in an irradiated zone with very low health.
The only moments when I found the combat boring was when walking though a zone full of enemies who are all scared of me because it would automatically turn combat mode which greatly impeded my movement rate. It did felt nice when I realized that a character I just grew myself had just one-shotted a super-mutant.
its more about story characters and exploration than combat. combat doesnt really get much better
playing old games like this you have to get into relaxed zen state, take things slow, enjoy the little things and abandnon expectation of stuff happening every second or you wont enjoy the experience. There is a lot to enjoy in Falout 1/2 you have to be in the right mood for it.
I'm in this situation in Fallout 2, my build is a small guns character and the opening is absolutely brutal for that, with you being forced to use a spear and missing most of the time because my character is not a melee build. I beat the Temple but stopped after that, I wasn't having fun with the combat at all, I want to be able to play long enough to give the story a fair judgement but the gameplay is so much of a slog.
Fallout as a game isn't about the combat. Personally I was in your position a couple years ago, OP.
Yes, things will become better and perhaps even exciting once you level up. However, you will most likely always view the combat in Fallout as getting in the way of your exploration of that world.
I know it sucks but you gotta bite through the bread to get to the meat, if you know what I'm saying.
As someone who loved the games when he was 5, I can still happily crack them open today and play them. Hell, a few months ago I went ahead and sank 100 hours into Fallout 2 with the Restoration Patch.
I even love the combat and get laughs out of it. Decided doing a LK1 Jinxed run and had a blast.
But as many have said, it's aged poorly so if you don't have a grasp of it it can come off as slow and boring. Basically pick a combat skill and just focus on it, you can find allies to make combat easier and you have to really take note of placement and how far people can move.
You will also die a lot.
But the game does pick up, I usually really get into the game as soon as I hit Junktown, there's so much to do there.
Yeah, combat in Fallout 1/2 can become a bit of a slog if you don't know what you're doing. I've played the heck out of both games and enjoy them immensely but can see why some wouldn't. Always go for Agility 10, single most important stat for combat. High Int also helps because you can get your prime combat skill up to 130 faster and that's quite serviceable in most situations (though you do get some fun dialogue for playing a retard, but that's not optimal for your first playthrough).
Ronald Nand said:
I'm in this situation in Fallout 2, my build is a small guns character and the opening is absolutely brutal for that, with you being forced to use a spear and missing most of the time because my character is not a melee build. I beat the Temple but stopped after that, I wasn't having fun with the combat at all, I want to be able to play long enough to give the story a fair judgement but the gameplay is so much of a slog.
If you're a small guns char, don't bother with melee weapons and go unarmed. You'll have slightly higher chance to hit and depending on your skill level, there's a trainer in Arroyo to help you a bit and another one in Klamath (first town) who gives you +10 regardless of skill. Also in case you didn't know, you can talk your way past the final challenge in Temple of Trials and speech is a great skill overall.
If the combat really bothers you, I can give you a few pointers how to make the most out of your skill points with least effort.
I've put 750+ hours into Fallout: New Vegas, and I'd like to play the rest of the series.
I just can't get into the first Fallout. Battles with rats and scorpions take forever, and I seem to miss more than I hit. I've been trying to play it for years now, but every time I start a game, I never get much farther than Shady Sands when I give up out of boredom.
Do things pick up later? Like, when you level up more? If not, are there any mods/hacks/cheats/whatever to make me super OP so I can just breeze through the combat? I'm just here for the story anyway. Is Fallout 2 any better in this regard, and if so, should I move right on to that?
OK, what level are you know? what is your build (i.e. SPECIAL stats, skills, perks, traits and so on and on)? Because there are many ways to make combat enjoyable or boring depending on your personal preferences.
If you want to go for the most optimal build, be a "gunslinger diplomat". Decrease your Endurange and Strength a bit (down to 4), get Gifted and Small Frame traits and this way you'll be able to max out your Intelligence and Agility and also put neccesary points in Perception and a bit in Luck. Tag small guns, speech and lockpick. Don't forget to go for perks that aid you in combat (such as awareness, more criticals, better criticals, bonus rate of fire,etc.) Done. Once you come across decent small guns (desert eagle, for example) you'll wreck most of your enemies.
Oh, and followers are helpful too.
sounds like you aren't really into turn based isometric RPGs, thats okay. not many people are these days. they were popular in the 90s and early 00s but mostly because all RPGs used that format. I would suggest you just play fallout 3 instead.
I've played FO2 but not 1. The battles in this game are much lengthier than the FPS counter parts with the sneak attack and single targets and small grouped encounters.
Generally random encounters, run from them. They're big, they're not very rewarding and there's plenty of ways to die somewhere else. You'll end up wasting a lot of ammo and it's not like FO3 where you get too much of that stuff.
You definitely want at least like 7 agility because AG is action points and not being able to do anything will cripple your options.
Always aim for the eyes. I mean, literally, always. You don't really hit worse enough that doing so much more damage wouldn't be what you wanted to do.
Because this is one of those old school type of games a guide is more valuable. Or at least read some guides and get suggestions on types of builds and characters. There's a lot of little things that help you along the way and the game fluffs it's game length by punishing you for not knowing where these things are. I think I had like 6 characters die miserable deaths before I found a gun I could steal really early. Not knowing where things are and running around the map blindly just gets you into more useless random encounters you could happily avoid.
Male and females have different gender interactions so there's a purpose to picking one over another.
I think the female can be part of a porn and you get XP and an STD out of it and the male can donate his DNA for a vault.
I'm in this situation in Fallout 2, my build is a small guns character and the opening is absolutely brutal for that, with you being forced to use a spear and missing most of the time because my character is not a melee build. I beat the Temple but stopped after that, I wasn't having fun with the combat at all, I want to be able to play long enough to give the story a fair judgement but the gameplay is so much of a slog.
If you're a small guns char, don't bother with melee weapons and go unarmed. You'll have slightly higher chance to hit and depending on your skill level, there's a trainer in Arroyo to help you a bit and another one in Klamath (first town) who gives you +10 regardless of skill. Also in case you didn't know, you can talk your way past the final challenge in Temple of Trials and speech is a great skill overall.
If the combat really bothers you, I can give you a few pointers how to make the most out of your skill points with least effort.
I found a good build for a gunslinger, with 10 agility so I think as far as build I'm okay. Is a mostly pacifist character viable in Fallout 2? Am I going to miss out on alot of quests and exp if I do avoid combat, for example if I used speech to get out of the Temple section would I get less exp because I don't get to kill all those Scorpions, because I don't want to miss content and feel underleveled simply because I'm avoiding combat.
The problem with the combat is that I'm missing enemies most of the time, I've played Shadowrun Returns which has a similar sort of combat in my opinion with you managing AP points and using them for movement and skills, and I didn't find combat in that really frustrating because I could consistently hit enemies if I manouvered effectively.
Go to the options menu and change combat speed to the highest setting. It does pick up once you find some advanced weapons and meet some interesting characters. I'd say that the game picks up once you get to Junktown.
I found a good build for a gunslinger, with 10 agility so I think as far as build I'm okay. Is a mostly pacifist character viable in Fallout 2? Am I going to miss out on alot of quests and exp if I do avoid combat, for example if I used speech to get out of the Temple section would I get less exp because I don't get to kill all those Scorpions, because I don't want to miss content and feel underleveled simply because I'm avoiding combat.
The problem with the combat is that I'm missing enemies most of the time, I've played Shadowrun Returns which has a similar sort of combat in my opinion with you managing AP points and using them for movement and skills, and I didn't find combat in that really frustrating because I could consistently hit enemies if I manouvered effectively.
Yeah, Shadowrun: Returns more dynamic and tactical combat. Unfortunately Fallou 1/2 were before the time that became a thing.
You can avoid most combat encounters, but in doing so you miss out on a lot of exp and loot. You can level grind quite easily through random combat encounters, but not really through speech/doctor/repair/etc. So you probably want a combat ready character, unless you enjoy watching your followers do all the fighting. What is nice about pacifist solutions is that they reward way more quest experience then if you just shoot everything. That is mostly to make up for the combat exp, put additional world exposition is a reward in itself as well.
Edit: I just reread your post and noticed you didn't really want my advice, so feel free to ignore all I wrote It might still help you considerably, though.
As for the build:
SPECIAL:
Agility 10 is a must, but you also want some good Perception for a gunslinger. It has effect on distance and darkness modifiers so at least 6 or 7 is in order. Anything in Strength above 5 is wasted, 4 is just as good (you get Power armour in late game and buffout for situation needs, just remember to save before popping the pill). Endurance is good enough at 4, but 6 might be saver if you're new to the game. HP/lvl increase rises with even number on End, so don't go for odd numbers.
Charisma, Intelligence and Luck are non-essential, but I personally go for high Int and Chr for many skill points and friends. Luck is my dump stat, but lower than 3 is getting dangerous. HOWEVER! If you want all those crit perk, you need luck at least 6 I think. Never bothered with them, once you get 95% for eye in aimed shot, you blast pretty much everything without them.
Traits:
Small frame for +1 Agi, your followers can carry your heavy stuff.
Talented for more SPECIAL points, don't mind the skill drop.
Skills:
Ok, this is kinda counter-intuitive, but when building a gunslinger, you actually don't want to tag Small guns. Tag Unarmed and get it up to 120 asap. Easy to do in two or three levels with high Int. That way you have something to overcome the beginning (Temple is a cakewalk) without needing ammo, something to fall back on when everything else fails and there's a boxing ring and kung-fu fighting you can take part in.
With tagged and reasonably high Unarmed it's quite possible to take out Metzger and his slavers on your first visit to Den, getting you some good exp, karma and a friend. One needs to know the game a bit, though, so don't go apeshit on them just yet.
Speech should be your second tagged skill if you want to get the most out of the game.
Third tag can be whatever. I prefer doctor, but science repair and outdoorsman are also popular, lockpick, stealt, steal and trap are kinda situational, but it doesn't really matter.
So where's the gunslinging, you ask? Read on!
Once you're on adequate levels with Unarmed, get Speech at around 120 as well and you don't need to bother with it again. Try to find as many Gun magazines as you can (one is in Klamath), magazines give you free points towards a skill (there are small guns, first aid, science, repair and outdoorsman magazines), but it has smaller effect for more skilled characters. Now pour all your skill points into Small arms till you hit level 12. You should be a serviceable marksman by that time and 10mm SMG on burst mode tears through low level enemies even with Small Guns 80 or so if you have good Perception, just run up to them and unload.
Now level 12 is what gets you from serviceable to master marksman, because a perk called Tag! becomes available. This not only gives you some bonus to your Small guns skill, but also multiplies any points you've put in so far. Watch that skill rocket up to 200+, take away some points to use for other skills and enjoy your unlimited head-shots provided by good Perception and Small guns at 170
As for other perks:
Take Quick pocket - one of the best perks in the game and definitely the best early option. It allows you to enter your inventory for 2 AP and faff about for as long as you want. That means reload (2 AP) and get high on five packs of healing powerd (2 AP each) for the AP cost of reload only.
Better Rate of Fire - now you can shoot them in the head twice a turn! Or just plain shoot them twice if you need to reload.
Sidenote:
Some people might consider the Tag! approach an exploit, but I've gone through the game so many time I no longer care and it's difficult enough for newcomers as is even without tedious combat.
If you don't find it enjoyable at this point, it probably won't improve for you. It's definitely not a game for everyone. I know people who think it's one of the finest games ever made, and I know people who think it is poorly aged trash.
I played it at the right time, so I am in both camps!
How I wish Avellone would remake the first two... The stories are still frickin' great, but you have to slog through the gameplay to see them.
More modern rpgs in this mold have a faster combat system and a more gradual incline, like wasteland and Caravaneer. But that's really trading 1:1 story for gameplay at the end of the day.
If only there was a perfect merger.
Arcanum isn't post-apoc, but I felt it hit the balance a bit better.
I played it after playing Fallout 3 for the same reason as OP's, because I wanted to play the whole series. And like OP, it took me a while to get into it (mostly getting used to going into the skill menu and choosing one to use on specific objects), but once I did I couldn't stop playing it, and ended up doing Fallout 2 in stride. Then again I love the whole atmosphere/world building/story driven aspect of games.
Its cool, you've got some good advice, I might check the excel sheet I put the build on and add some stuff you suggested. Probably after I'm done playing Shadow of Mordor and if something else more interesting doesn't come up. I'll eventually end up trying Fallout 2 again sometime, it would be cool if modded or remade the game to have combat more like Shadowrun, I didn't play Shadowrun for long but I enjoyed the combat as a street samurai.
Also when I revisit the older Fallout games should I try playing Fallout 1 first, does playing that make going through Fallout 2 better? Because the time limit thing would probably make me uncomfortable playing knowing I could be wasting hours of effort just to get locked into the bad ending, especially with me being unfamiliar with the combat.
Its cool, you've got some good advice, I might check the excel sheet I put the build on and add some stuff you suggested. Probably after I'm done playing Shadow of Mordor and if something else more interesting doesn't come up. I'll eventually end up trying Fallout 2 again sometime, it would be cool if modded or remade the game to have combat more like Shadowrun, I didn't play Shadowrun for long but I enjoyed the combat as a street samurai.
Also when I revisit the older Fallout games should I try playing Fallout 1 first, does playing that make going through Fallout 2 better? Because the time limit thing would probably make me uncomfortable playing knowing I could be wasting hours of effort just to get locked into the bad ending, especially with me being unfamiliar with the combat.
I'm just playing Shadow of Mordor myself, fun game.
Playing through Fallout 1 before Fallout 2 is not mandatory, but it's nice to know the lore. Fallout 1 also has much quicker gear progression so it might feel like less of a slog, but companions are much weaker both combat and character wise than in 2.
Follow the basic town progression until Necropolis shows up on your map. Go there, don't start a fight and help the poor souls in the sewers.
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It might still help you considerably, though.
