Does the LGB community hate transexuals?

[KelsieKatt]

As a part of the community, I'd like to say my disgust for transgenders is that they came to a complete different conclusion that we LGB did. We accepted ourselves, took with pride who we were born as, I was born a gay man. alright. But Transsexuals didn't accept themselves, I view them as running away, of wanting to be someone (something) else. That's not the loving accepting message we strive for.

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Transsexual people can be straight, gay or bi, just like you can. It's not a remotely related issue.

To put it in very blunt terms. It's not about who you're fucking, it's about how you're fucking them. Granted, that's an oversimplification as there's more to it than sex, such as social roles, appearance, etc.

Point being though, it's an entirely different issue and no one came to any "different" conclusion because they aren't even the same subject.

As other people have said, transsexuality is about accepting who they are, running away would amount to pretending they identify with their birth sex and trying to live how everyone else expects them to.

 

[Terminal Blue]

The point is that straight people just mind their own business and don't think it's a big deal, because it isn't.

I realize that much of the problem here is really bad phrasing, but seriously.. think that one through for a second.

I think you'll find that 'it' is a pretty big deal for many straight people, and they certainly don't all mind their own business about it. Just because they don't often talk about their heterosexuality unless it's under attack doesn't mean it's not extremely important and extremely prominent.

Try to put ur self in the shoes of someone who 100% feels they are the opposite gender to their birth sex, then imagine how it would feel to look at your body and see that it does not match.

I find this very difficult to say, so if it comes off badly I'm really sorry. It's not an attack, if anything it's a criticism of this argument.

I don't understand how someone can 'feel' their gender. I realize that most "normal" heterosexuals would claim to feel inherently like a man or a woman, but I don't consider there to be any innate 'feeling' or awareness of who I am deep down. I can be aware of what I would like to look like, I can be aware that my body does not conform to my wishes, but I really can't take seriously the idea that people just are and that they know what they are without some kind of prompt.

Now, I understand dysmorphia as a mental condition. I understand that some people feel so unhappy with their bodies that they want to physically change them, whether surgically or through 'performance', I do that myself when I feel miserable or ugly. What I don't understand is the attachment to this fairly prescriptive constant, because it seems no better than any other prescriptive constant.

If I had a personal problem with my trans friends, and I don't because I recognize that I don't need to understand how they feel in order to accept their right to make decisions for themselves (neither does anyone for that matter) it's that I often find their image of what a 'man' is or what a 'woman' is to be borderline offensive in just how prescriptive it is, ignoring any of the potential or possibility inherent in these terms in favour of an extremely narrow brand of ultra-masculinity or ultra-femininity.

Of course, I've met many trans people who do have a less black and white view of sex and who simply want to exercise the right to choose how to represent themselves to the world. That seems really cool to me, it's something worth aspiring to for everyone, but when it just comes down to 'I'm actually a woman because women are X and men are not X' I start to feel a bit leery. I don't understand how you justify that.

As I said though, I don't claim that I need to understand, but it would be interesting to hear your opinion.

I think that in any minority that's been discriminated against (and God knows, if anyone who wasn't heterosexual over the last 50 years hasn't been discriminated against it's not for lack of trying), there's a tendency to want to get into the mainstream and, God willing, do some discrimination of your own.

This is incredibly sad but true, at the moment. You see it a lot in the whole gay marriage debate.

It's not really malicious I suppose, but some people are so desperate to be accepted as "normal" that instead of challenging the right of the moral majority and the authorities which represent them to form stereotypes or make blanket allegations they just push them off onto someone else who is 'letting the side down' or failing to be respectable enough.

 

[Nimcha]

No hate from me!

Just a minor annoyance at the fact that some (not all!) transsexual people are going on about how gender is a social construct and how it should be completely irrelevant. I find it a bit disrespecting, I am a woman and I like being one. It is relevant to me. And a lot of transsexual people want to be perceived as one (and only one) gender, namely the one they feel must comfortable with.

Of course I mean no disrespect and I'm fine with people saying they have no gender for example, or both. Just let me have mine too.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Just a minor annoyance at the fact that some (not all!) transsexual people are going on about how gender is a social construct and how it should be completely irrelevant. I find it a bit disrespecting, I am a woman and I like being one. It is relevant to me.

Then don't take this the wrong way, but how should it being a social construct or other people resenting the way its applied to them make it less so to you?

If 'being a woman' means particular things to you and you like those things, then fine. Other people might have completely different ideas about what 'being a woman' means, or might believe the same things but find them restrictive and unpleasant.

Pointing out that you shouldn't be roped into "femininity" isn't the same as saying that you shouldn't be allowed to perform it if you want to. On the other hand, if you're trying to argue that 'being a woman' has an inherent value which is the same for everyone and people should just accept that and get back to whatever you think women should be doing, then hate to say it but I think you're the aggressor in that scenario.

 

[Dags90]

I won't deny that many people on the ground outside of the pride movement and its events don't always see it, but I think if you dig into the politics of it you'll find that a lot of the conflict is about representation, and in that sense you'll find a degree of resentment amongst just about any group apart from exclusively gay man (who are enormously over-represented in LGBT politics). Most bisexuals feel that gay men don't really understand them, a lot of lesbians feel the same.

I might further add that it's upper-middle class white gay men who are grossly overrepresented. I would also refer to "The Myth of the Black Community" and equally apply it to the LGBT community.

 

[Terminal Blue]

I might further add that it's upper-middle class white gay men who are grossly overrepresented. I would also refer to "The Myth of the Black Community" and equally apply it to the LGBT community.

Very, very true.

 

[ShadowKatt]

From my experience I've seen that the LGBT community mostly focuses on the LG part of that and not so much the BT.

The forefront of the movement is the Lesbians and Gays. Girls that want to love girls and boys that want to love boys. There are those, however, that look at someone that calls themself "bisexual" with a certain level of disdain like they're looking at an animal that just wants to fuck everything in sight and doesn't stand for any kind of progressive rights. And there are those that look upon trans[gendered/sexual] people as disgusting. Lesbians will often look down upon MtF transexuals as something disgusting because they're not "real women" and gays will look down on FtM transexuals as not being "real men".

This is just what I've observed, and it's not a lot. But seeing as how I haven't given it that much attention and still caught this much, I'm sure it's quite prevelent.

 

[Cryofthewolf]

*Skips to end without reading every post*

From what I've encountered, the LGBT community in my area has no problem with transsexuals. Hell, I don't, and most decent people I know don't either.

 

[Nimcha]

Just a minor annoyance at the fact that some (not all!) transsexual people are going on about how gender is a social construct and how it should be completely irrelevant. I find it a bit disrespecting, I am a woman and I like being one. It is relevant to me.

Then don't take this the wrong way, but how should it being a social construct or other people resenting the way its applied to them make it less so to you?

If 'being a woman' means particular things to you and you like those things, then fine. Other people might have completely different ideas about what 'being a woman' means, or might believe the same things but find them restrictive and unpleasant.

Pointing out that you shouldn't be roped into "femininity" isn't the same as saying that you shouldn't be allowed to perform it if you want to. On the other hand, if you're trying to argue that 'being a woman' has an inherent value which is the same for everyone and people should just accept that and get back to whatever you think women should be doing, then hate to say it but I think you're the aggressor in that scenario.

No no I don't think that at all. I personally don't adhere to any gender roles at all, actually. And I do also think the 'traditional' roles are restrictive and unpleasant. But they do exist, and lots of people are perfectly happy adhering to them. And for them gender is a binary affair. Transsexual people should accept that, just as those other people should accept that it's not binary for some people.

I accept it when someone tells me that they think gender doesn't actually exist and they don't feel they have any. I feel they should extend me the same courtesy when I tell them I am a woman and feel like one. But sometimes they don't. That's what bothers me. Disclaimer: this does not fly for every transsexual person, obviously.

It's a little like those annoying bisexual people who go on and on about everybody being bi on some level (again, not all of them, just some!).

 

[let's rock]

being bisexual myself, I have transgender friends, who I don't hate, so I would say no.

 

[drisky]

Afterthought: A lot of transsexuals would have it easier if they didn't run around yelling "WHOO I'M A TRANSSEXUAL", much like many gay people would. I can sympathize with it being exciting to come to the realization, but the more you present it as unusual and strange (which is what you're doing by calling attention to it, whether you realize it or not), the more willing people will be to see it as such. Just throwing that out there. Feel free to replace "transsexual" with any unusual lifestyle, by the way. Works just as well.

Of course, it's entirely possible to bring it up naturally and without awkwardness... when it's topical or relevant. Finesse is a necessary skill in all things social, you know.

The issue often arrises here with why should lgb people have to hide when straight people are allowed to openly celebrate their lives. where there is much more acceptance than i think the showing off about it will reduce.

I didnt include trans people here, because many trans people dont want to yell out about it, but we have to make i know because of the struggles we face

"Openly celebrate their lives" nothing; they don't run around yelling "OH MAN LOOK HOW STRAIGHT I AM" either, and if they did, people would wonder what they're on. If someone held a straight pride parade, I'd think they were idiots, too. So would you.

The point is that straight people just mind their own business and don't think it's a big deal, because it isn't. But neither are relations that aren't solely between a man and a woman; we've had them in our history probably as long as we as a species has existed, and in many points in many cultures' history (the Greeks, the Romans, the Japanese, so forth), it's been an integral part of their society.

I agree. I fucking hate the parades, you want equality, fine, shut the hell up and dont make a deal out of your sexuality LIKE THE REST OF US. I mean seriously, I am a hetrosexual, but IO have never drawn attention to it, neither have any of the people I hve known. I knew one girl wh was either bi or lesbian, she didnt mak a big deal out of it thts great. But some people, fucking hell.

I am not a member of the LGBT but dont agree with transexals, itone thing to sy "Im attractdto guys" thts fine, im attracted o women, I never questioned it, it just hapened. But you cant use the "its naturly who I am argument for "I want to have an opertion to chnge my genitals" thats not natural. lso in my eyes yourn born with a dick, your a guy, weither you have surgery to chnge tht chnges nothing. People ont put on spray tan nd become an arab.

I may get banned for this considering I wa once warned for not agreing with transexuals and saying surgery was just imo self mutilation. God forbid they are exposed to others oppinions.

You can't get in trouble for saying your against transexuals, but you can get in trouble for making no effort to check your spelling, or possibly challenging the mods. In any case, gender identity disorder is associated with having an actual female brain structure because they never received the testosterone wash the makes a male brain in-uttero. They literally have a female mind trapped in a male body, not poetically. Surgery may not be natural, but there is no other way to feel comfortable for them. The transition process might not be a natural process, but their reasons for doing it are because of natural functions.

 

[ZeroMachine]

In ANY organization, even ones purporting tolerance, you'll find individuals who are, well... utter assholes.

Bigotry would exist even if we were all the same, somehow. A sad fact of life. You just need to learn to ignore the people that act that way. They aren't worth the time or effort.

 

[Zeckt]

As a transexual myself, I'll honestly say that as many LG people discriminate against transexuals as straight people do. It's just human nature, being gay or lesbian won't change judgements. Honestly its another thing entirely and I wish we could infact break away from the mold.

Personally I would never of became a transexual but women keep an unfair (MY OPINION) exclusive right to femininity. If a pretty boy has the potential to be pretty, he has every right to dress that way. It is REALLY hard for effeminate looking males (I mean as even if they TRY to be masculine they still come off as feminine) to get long lasting relationships from people, as they come off short every single time to masculine men. It just seems as if they have no confidence and the woman loses interest. Once I made the femininity apparent and no longer had to pretend to be someone I was not, I can actually get relationships with both sexes now.

I could never understand why I was forced to go to LGB groups, but you pretty much HAVE to do it so you can tell some doctor or psychiatrist you did. I never felt any relation to any of them, and neither did they to me. I had to go because I was forced to, and I found the groups to only be a way for the LGB people to meet and have sex afterwards. There was absolutely no point for me to go to these meetings, I hate the LGBT label to begin with.

So in closing, as a transexual myself I find nothing in common with LG people. They are after all just people and being gay does not equal tolerance, there is plenty of gays who discriminate or are racist, as high a ratio as normal people.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

snip

Would you criticize someone for trying to overcome a birth defect? For trying to cure their blindness, or deafness, triumph over being crippled, or mentally addled, or anything of the sort, because they "didn't accept themselves"? I'm willing to doubt it.

You can't compare getting a sex change with having a physical deformity (like cleft lip) or physical disability (like being born blind).

 

[HerbertTheHamster]

it's supposed to be LGBTQ

god, you're so insensitive.

anyway, gay people can be ignorant too, op.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

snip

I might further add that it's upper-middle class white gay men who are grossly overrepresented. I would also refer to "The Myth of the Black Community" and equally apply it to the LGBT community.

wait, what is "The Myth of the Black Community"?

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

it's supposed to be LGBTQ

god, you're so insensitive.

anyway, gay people can be ignorant too, op.

I hope your just kidding and not serious;y offended.

 

[Dags90]

wait, what is "The Myth of the Black Community"?

It's a short student piece on how there really are no unified minority groups.[footnote]http://www.scribd.com/doc/38955407/The-Myth-of-the-Black-Community[/footnote] Minorities are spread out over a fair amount of socioecnomic strata, even those generally considered disadvantaged. The idea of one group purporting to have those diverse groups of people in their interests is foolhardy. This leads to some groups being marginalized within that community, making it no longer actually representative of the group it purports to represent as a whole.

I.e. Because gay, upper-middle class, white men are generally overrepresented in most "LGBT Communities", they don't actually represent the interests of the full "LGBT Community". "LGBT Community" is a false label in these circumstances, and the group would more appropriately be called "The Upper-Middle Class Gay White Man Community".

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

wait, what is "The Myth of the Black Community"?

It's a short student piece on how there really are no unified minority groups.[footnote]http://www.scribd.com/doc/38955407/The-Myth-of-the-Black-Community[/footnote] Minorities are spread out over a fair amount of socioecnomic strata, even those generally considered disadvantaged. The idea of one group purporting to have those diverse groups of people in their interests is foolhardy. This leads to some groups being marginalized within that community, making it no longer actually representative of the group it purports to represent as a whole.

I.e. Because gay, upper-middle class, white men are generally overrepresented in most "LGBT Communities", they don't actually represent the interests of the full "LGBT Community". "LGBT Community" is a false label in these circumstances, and the group would more appropriately
be called "The Upper-Middle Class Gay White Man Community".

hmmm... well when you think about it, I guess this also applies the the majority community as well, because ask any two straight, middle class, white men on issues regarding something like politics and you'll likely to get to completely different opinions.

 

[Dags90]

hmmm... well when you think about it, I guess this also applies the the majority community as well, because ask any two straight, middle class, white men on issues regarding something like politics and you'll likely to get to completely different opinions.

With "majority" communities, it's generally taken as a given fact that no one group could possibly represent all white people. Or all men, or even all white men.