DoJ, Antitrust and Google

[Trunkage]

The Department of Justice made a official antitrust lawsuit against Google

Why the US government is suing Google

The Department of Justice says the company’s anti-competitive business practices harm Americans.

www.vox.com

I picked Vox due to its graphs towards the end showing the market share and very much disputing Google's claim that they don't have a monopoly.

Here's my biggest problem. I've used online search engine like Safari and Bing. They are just crap. I do agree with Google that propping up crap doesn't help anyone. Them abusing their power is about as good as Trump abusing his. i.e. No thank you. But I don't see myself changing because the other platforms are generally that bad. So.. I'm the problem

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

"The DOJ likened the situation to Microsoft, which made its internet browser the default on Windows operating systems and made it impossible to delete."

...okay, but you still can't delete Microsoft's browser from Windows

 

[Iron]

"The DOJ likened the situation to Microsoft, which made its internet browser the default on Windows operating systems and made it impossible to delete."

...okay, but you still can't delete Microsoft's browser from Windows

Ubutnu Master Race laughs at this predicament

This lawsuit feels a little on the down-low. People talk about it?

 

[crimson5pheonix]

"The DOJ likened the situation to Microsoft, which made its internet browser the default on Windows operating systems and made it impossible to delete."

...okay, but you still can't delete Microsoft's browser from Windows

>lawyers speaking tech

Anyway at the time browsers cost money. There was a few things brought against Microsoft in the antitrust lawsuit and it was ruled that they be broken up.

Then Microsoft appealed the decision and got it overturned, so none of it matters.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

"The DOJ likened the situation to Microsoft, which made its internet browser the default on Windows operating systems and made it impossible to delete."

...okay, but you still can't delete Microsoft's browser from Windows

Other manufacturers are allowed to default install other browsers though now. E.G. My very cheap laptop came with chrome installed by default.

 

[Gordon_4]

"The DOJ likened the situation to Microsoft, which made its internet browser the default on Windows operating systems and made it impossible to delete."

...okay, but you still can't delete Microsoft's browser from Windows

No but you can install competing products and use them exclusively. Microsoft rolling in IE (now superseded by Edge) was hardly in my view a monopolistic action but the rather sensible act of making sure Windows could do basic tasks out of the box. If they hadn’t included it, people would have accused them of being lazy cheapskates so they weren’t going to win either way.

 

[Revnak]

Cool. Fuck big tech. Google is monstrous.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Other manufacturers are allowed to default install other browsers though now. E.G. My very cheap laptop came with chrome installed by default.

And my midrange Samsung phone had two browsers installed by default, so...

 

[Agema]

The Department of Justice made a official antitrust lawsuit against Google

That's kind of funny. A couple of years ago when the EU took action, Trump's was saying stuff like "I told you so! The European Union just slapped a Five Billion Dollar fine on one of our great companies, Google. They truly have taken advantage of the U.S., but not for long!"

I wonder what changed?

Well, he later supplied some clarification: "Every week you see them going after Facebook and Apple and all of these companies … The European Union is suing them all of the time... Well, we should be doing this. They’re our companies. So, [the EU is] actually attacking our companies, but we should be doing what they’re doing. They think there’s a monopoly, but I’m not sure that they think that. They just think this is easy money."

So the problem was not that the EU thought they might be monopolistic, but that the EU shouldn't be allowed to take their money in fines, only the US should. This is remarkably ignorant of the idea separate jurisdictions can issue their own fines for misconduct (their monopoly in the EU hurts the EU too), but anyway.

One way or another, it's long past time these companies were scrutinised very carefully indeed.

* * *

Here's my biggest problem. I've used online search engine like Safari and Bing. They are just crap. I do agree with Google that propping up crap doesn't help anyone.

But maybe they are crap partly because of Google's monopoly: they cannot afford the resources to compete in quality.

We might assume MS could theoretically challenge Google by funding Bing up the wazoo from other parts of the company, but I would strongly suggest MS probably has more useful things to do with the money.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

The Department of Justice made a official antitrust lawsuit against Google

Why the US government is suing Google

The Department of Justice says the company’s anti-competitive business practices harm Americans.

www.vox.com

I picked Vox due to its graphs towards the end showing the market share and very much disputing Google's claim that they don't have a monopoly.

Here's my biggest problem. I've used online search engine like Safari and Bing. They are just crap. I do agree with Google that propping up crap doesn't help anyone. Them abusing their power is about as good as Trump abusing his. i.e. No thank you. But I don't see myself changing because the other platforms are generally that bad. So.. I'm the problem

I dunno bing is great for......... what's the polite way to say it.......... adult entertainment stuff.
Also weirdly Bing seems better at finding and showcasing harder to find / more specific results while I've found google in recent years just giving matches more based on the words used not the specific phrases as a whole.

I've found google useful for more general stuff but it does feel like it's slipping.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I dunno bing is great for......... what's the polite way to say it.......... adult entertainment stuff.

Bing is good for something? Huh.

Also weirdly Bing seems better at finding and showcasing harder to find / more specific results while I've found google in recent years just giving matches more based on the words used not the specific phrases as a whole.

I've found google useful for more general stuff but it does feel like it's slipping.

Also, when it includes things similar to what you asked for, which is often useful, but often not. Looking up insects, which Google decides means the same as bugs so gives me lots of results of computer bugs isn't ideal.

 

[Trunkage]

I dunno bing is great for......... what's the polite way to say it.......... adult entertainment stuff.
Also weirdly Bing seems better at finding and showcasing harder to find / more specific results while I've found google in recent years just giving matches more based on the words used not the specific phrases as a whole.

I've found google useful for more general stuff but it does feel like it's slipping.

Thanks for doing the market research. I wasnt going back to it

 

[lil devils x]

TBH, this is garbage. We can choose whatever browser and search option we want to use, people choosing to use Google isn't anti trust, what is REALLY anti trust is AT&T internet due to many not even having a choice, and them being the only provider in the area forcing people to use a crappy service. They need to go after ISP's for their monopolies on ISP instead because no choice = monopoly. This admin isn't going to do that however, they literally put AT&T in charge of the FCC instead. They really need to make it so anyone can use any ISP they want and they all have to share fiber like they did for phone lines. That would make AT&T convulse, but that would be a GREAT thing. The best thing that could happen to the US would be for AT&T to go out of business, because they are a shitty company with even worse service, and I am glad I don't have to use them where I live now..

People make search engines all the time, it isn't Google's fault their search engines suck. We can choose to use duckduckgo when we want, it isn't like just because we use one we can't use other's whenever we want. I say this is a BS suit without grounds, but doesn't surprise me one bit from an administration that is up AT&T's rear. At&T is ALSO who blocked Google from trying to give the US the fastest Internet for Free and sued them for unfair trade practices blocking Google's efforts. Like somehow fastest internet for free is a bad thing. AT&T is what is holding the US back from having faster internet, yet they make up BS suits against google for making products people prefer to use over theirs.

 

[lil devils x]

That's kind of funny. A couple of years ago when the EU took action, Trump's was saying stuff like "I told you so! The European Union just slapped a Five Billion Dollar fine on one of our great companies, Google. They truly have taken advantage of the U.S., but not for long!"

I wonder what changed?

Well, he later supplied some clarification: "Every week you see them going after Facebook and Apple and all of these companies … The European Union is suing them all of the time... Well, we should be doing this. They’re our companies. So, [the EU is] actually attacking our companies, but we should be doing what they’re doing. They think there’s a monopoly, but I’m not sure that they think that. They just think this is easy money."

So the problem was not that the EU thought they might be monopolistic, but that the EU shouldn't be allowed to take their money in fines, only the US should. This is remarkably ignorant of the idea separate jurisdictions can issue their own fines for misconduct (their monopoly in the EU hurts the EU too), but anyway.

One way or another, it's long past time these companies were scrutinised very carefully indeed.

* * *



But maybe they are crap partly because of Google's monopoly: they cannot afford the resources to compete in quality.

We might assume MS could theoretically challenge Google by funding Bing up the wazoo from other parts of the company, but I would strongly suggest MS probably has more useful things to do with the money.

The suit is BS though because there is nothing preventing us from using multiple services. We can use google and Duckduckgo, Bing, Yahoo and whoever else we want to use whenever we want. People choosing to use google more isn't Google's fault. What have they done exactly that prevents someone else from making another search engine? There is no antitrust here is the issue.

They SHOULD be suing AT&T for antitrust because in many places in the US, you can ONLY use ONE ISP, so there is no competition, no choice at all and ISP's don't have to share fiber like they do phone lines. I am not seeing how an anti trust is even possible in Googles case because we can choose who we want to use at will and they are not doing anything to stop us from using them or them from creating them. Google making a superior product isn't something they should be punished for.

What Changed is AT&T being in control over the FCC and Trump being up their arse. At&T hates google because google tried to put them out of business by giving people the fastest internet for free and At&T sued them for unfair trade practices, chances are they are behind this BS as well because they just really suck that bad and the entire world would be better off if At&T just ceased to exist.

I don't think I can express my disdain for AT&T enough really.

 

[lil devils x]

No but you can install competing products and use them exclusively. Microsoft rolling in IE (now superseded by Edge) was hardly in my view a monopolistic action but the rather sensible act of making sure Windows could do basic tasks out of the box. If they hadn’t included it, people would have accused them of being lazy cheapskates so they weren’t going to win either way.

Including it is fine, but you should ALSO be able to 100% remove it.

 

[Gordon_4]

Including it is fine, but you should ALSO be able to 100% remove it.

Why? Leaving it there does no harm.

 

[lil devils x]

Why? Leaving it there does no harm.

It does. It interferes with my automatic default settings and keeps trying to update itself when I just want it to go away and stay gone and then it pops back up after they do a windows update.. I should be able to completely remove it with no trace and no more interference forever. To where it doesn't keep asking me to default it again after windows updates and installation of other programs.

Even when you temporary disable it through other programs, after windows updates it resets itself sometimes and is annoying as F. Then I have to do this to ALL the computers at my house AND my Moms. RRAAWRRGG ! >:E ( hopes that expressed my frustration thoroughly with them)

 

[Gordon_4]

It does. It interferes with my automatic default settings and keeps trying to update itself when I just want it to go away and stay gone and then it pops back up after they do a windows update.. I should be able to completely remove it with no trace and no more interference forever. To where it doesn't keep asking me to default it again after windows updates and installation of other programs.

Then you're doing something incredibly wrong because I have never used IE beyond downloading the installer for my preferred browser and never, ever had it become my default again even after countless windows updates.

 

[lil devils x]

Then you're doing something incredibly wrong because I have never used IE beyond downloading the installer for my preferred browser and never, ever had it become my default again even after countless windows updates.

Edge does this, not IE and some older programs I use keep waking the stupid thing up as well as I am not sure how to change their legacy settings. Corel Draw 6 and 7 for example. IE usually stays dead, edge OTOH is a pain in my arse. Some of my older games do that as well, all my old C&C games, red alert, and other old disc games. I am not sure how to make the legacy settings use my default program.

 

[Agema]

Then you're doing something incredibly wrong because I have never used IE beyond downloading the installer for my preferred browser and never, ever had it become my default again even after countless windows updates.

I used to remove IE completely after I'd installed a new browser. It's been a while since I last bothered, but I'm not even sure I could if I tried these days, seeing as MS amuses itself by automatically installing programs onto my computer that it wants rather than I want. I realised this when I saw a Candy Crush Saga update sucking on my laptop resources. I uninstalled it, and a Windows update or two later, there it was again. Fuck you, Microsoft.