Don't Use the Word "Gamer"
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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Haha, this is a great picture. I can certainly say that I know one of the "REAL Gamers"Irridium said:If you really want to be classified as "gamer", I have a handy dandy little chart so you can see what kind of gamer you are.
However thats only if you consider yourself a gamer, instead of simply "someone who play games".
Just to get this out of the way quickly before my main point, this was a really well written article. Well thought out, clearly argued, and just the perfect amount of humor to make it interesting without detracting from the point. Damn Yahtzee, you smart!
Anyways
Yahtzee is actually suggesting something that can be applied to social situations well beyond video game culture. When a minority's goal is absorption into the mainstream, often its last obstacle is its own self-assertion. The price of mass acceptance is the sacrifice of a defining character trait to the general masses.
Let's put it like this. You are a white kid growing up in an integrated school district. You have some black friends and some white friends, and are never given a reason to discriminate between them on the basis of their skin color. Then you get to High School, and get the crazy black power professor who has a poster of Malcolm X at the front of class, and a comb undoubtedly lodged in the back of his massive fro. He lectures all about race relations between blacks and whites, talks about the white man's domineering and how the blacks had to rise against it. Perhaps he advocates racial harmony, but his merely doing so creates the sensation of difference and clash between the two groups. Suddenly the blacks and whites in your little group of friends begin to slowely polarize away from each other based on the color of their skin.
Sometimes its neccesary for a minority to take charge of its own stereotype. When people say "Hey, you're a ******!" sometimes the only thing you can shout back is "Damn right I'm a ******!" but if you hold onto that term after its become obsolete, you give it a power past its time. By asserting your right to be a minority, you lose your chance at the majority. We lose the name and the stereotype gamer when we stop being a marked off phenomenon.
Now my question to Yahtzee is this; Are you sure you want to be part of the majority?
On how many countless occasions has Yahtzee complained about casual gaming and advocated the hardcore fan's need to guide the games industry through its growth? If we give up our claim as gamers to just be "people who play games." then the market will be flooded with games for the "people who play games." A million Wii sports titles to appeal to the mass audience that we have become. I mean, look what happened when the skill of literacy was introduced to the serfs, we got Twilight.
Maybe its not even a decision that "gamers" have a right to make anymore. Video Games are already well on their way to being absorbed by the mainstream. Still, perhaps we might consider using what little influence we have left to resist becoming "people who play games." just a little while longer.
Anyways
Yahtzee is actually suggesting something that can be applied to social situations well beyond video game culture. When a minority's goal is absorption into the mainstream, often its last obstacle is its own self-assertion. The price of mass acceptance is the sacrifice of a defining character trait to the general masses.
Let's put it like this. You are a white kid growing up in an integrated school district. You have some black friends and some white friends, and are never given a reason to discriminate between them on the basis of their skin color. Then you get to High School, and get the crazy black power professor who has a poster of Malcolm X at the front of class, and a comb undoubtedly lodged in the back of his massive fro. He lectures all about race relations between blacks and whites, talks about the white man's domineering and how the blacks had to rise against it. Perhaps he advocates racial harmony, but his merely doing so creates the sensation of difference and clash between the two groups. Suddenly the blacks and whites in your little group of friends begin to slowely polarize away from each other based on the color of their skin.
Sometimes its neccesary for a minority to take charge of its own stereotype. When people say "Hey, you're a ******!" sometimes the only thing you can shout back is "Damn right I'm a ******!" but if you hold onto that term after its become obsolete, you give it a power past its time. By asserting your right to be a minority, you lose your chance at the majority. We lose the name and the stereotype gamer when we stop being a marked off phenomenon.
Now my question to Yahtzee is this; Are you sure you want to be part of the majority?
On how many countless occasions has Yahtzee complained about casual gaming and advocated the hardcore fan's need to guide the games industry through its growth? If we give up our claim as gamers to just be "people who play games." then the market will be flooded with games for the "people who play games." A million Wii sports titles to appeal to the mass audience that we have become. I mean, look what happened when the skill of literacy was introduced to the serfs, we got Twilight.
Maybe its not even a decision that "gamers" have a right to make anymore. Video Games are already well on their way to being absorbed by the mainstream. Still, perhaps we might consider using what little influence we have left to resist becoming "people who play games." just a little while longer.
Ya know, I've kinda always referred to myself as a gamer. I dunno. I guess when I call myself a gamer, I don't really tag myself with the negative definition of it. Though I can certainly understand how people that don't play games can obtain a negative view from the term. Seeing as how "gamers" are often portrayed in the news or on the Youtube, or whatever in some kind of negative light.
Yahtzee certainly has a point. I suppose I can try and make a bit of difference and not refer to myself as a gamer. Maybe I should at least stop introducing myself as a gamer to any chick I come across. Baby steps though, am I right people?
Yahtzee certainly has a point. I suppose I can try and make a bit of difference and not refer to myself as a gamer. Maybe I should at least stop introducing myself as a gamer to any chick I come across. Baby steps though, am I right people?
Yeah if someone says "Oh you're a gamer huh?" my first instinct is to immediately cringe and start the mental process of trying to come up with a better term for myself. Still working on that I suppose... Besides I stopped playing games that completely suck your life away. Like anything by say, Bliztard
There's an important difference between "gamers" and "people who play games." Gamers keep up with gaming news, make time in their day to play games and, from a marketing perspective, choose to self-identify as a part of the gaming subculture, familiar with its language, references, memes and history. The group "people who play games" tend to not search for gaming news, but when they run across something of interest, they will scan it. They frequently play genres across the spectrum and sometimes go weeks or months without getting a new game. Lastly, they don't call themselves "gamers."
- J.P. Sherman, 24 August 2010, The Escapist. "First-Person Marketer: Kinect Is Not For You"
- J.P. Sherman, 24 August 2010, The Escapist. "First-Person Marketer: Kinect Is Not For You"
well i vant vouch for everyone but as a genral rule when im asked what it is that i enjoy when not working i genraly tell them im into audio visual, or electronic entertainments. it covers my gaming habbits as well as my movie and television habbits all in one swoop.
I doubt it will be going away. There are plenty of people who actually conform to the stereotype and I desperately seeking a group to belong to ever since the chess team was disbanded.
On a related note, whenever I hear the word gamer, I think of that terrible movie from 2009 or whenever.
On a related note, whenever I hear the word gamer, I think of that terrible movie from 2009 or whenever.
Mr. Croshaw, you should know by now that trying to do anything to improve the quality of the gaming community is a futile and wasted effort.
I have no problem with the term to be honest. The complaint that Yahtzee seems to be making is that the label is accurate, and that's not fair to the non-nerd population that also play games and don't want to be lumped in with them.
I do understand where he's coming from though. Truthfully the term "gamer" for most of my life was mostly spent referring to people who played paper and pencil RPGs. For a long time it was something of a badge of honor and empowerment because you were dealing with a lot of very smart people. The industry started dumbing things down and trying to go increasingly mainstream. You wound up getting people involved who were not "smart nerds" but simply social rejects, this dragged things down. Kids were being brought into the hobby by differant marketing, and you even saw shifts from a situation where kids were a minority in the hobby (and mentioned in say the Forum of Dragon Magazine as one of the issues), to where they made up the majority of PnP gamers (and this of course also became a topic of discussion in things like the Forum of Dragon Magazine). At some point we got away from a collegiate level hobby where you might have one player out of a thousand (in the then much smaller community) who was a kid able to do it and see respect, to a situation where PnP RPGs became a stereotypical refuge for especially reject-worthy high school freshmen who couldn't even be redeemed by their relative intelligence. Compare say the current edition D&D books to the first edition of AD&D and the language that was used. That says a lot about the people that played and the requirements to understand one of these games.
As someone who rode the PnP bus as it went down in flames, watching as things changed, I can say that there was a lot of resentment similar to what Yahtzee seems to be feeling. A desire to differentiate yourself from the guys who got into the hobby when it expanded. I started gaming young, and had a lot of problems (as I've mentioned before), but I will say that I have met gamers that can almost inflict physical pain on me just by hearing them talk about gaming, and as much of a wreck as I am can sit there and go "that's what I've been associated with?".
It might be a passing distinction, but someone with a big huge brain (even if they are not smart in any practical way), who tends to be slobbish and socially awkward has some redeeming issues because he's ridiculously smart and knows all kinds of stuff. In many cases being like that because they are operating on a somewhat differant level from the norm. On the other hand someone who is like that and dumb, or simply of average intelligence, with no real base of knowlege, practical or otherwise, is simply a slob. To a lot of those people gaming is a way to try and justify themselves by latching on to a similar seeming group of people.
This is similar when it comes to video gaming, the current use for "gamer" in that the industry has also dumbed down, and gone mainstream. You have bucketloads of people streaming into the hobby, and acting like there is something to be proud of in being a "gamer" when any pride that could have come from that was washed away in lowering the bar to the point where they could be one.
To sort of put things into perspective, let's look at my favorite genere: RPGs. I love deep RPGs with tons of cutomization, items, stats, skills, and massive networks of spreadsheet like menus and sub-menus. All the stuff Yahtzee hates ironically given this message. I get a ridiculous amount of enjoyment out of tweaking variables and then watching what happens when I hit the "attack" button or whatever. I also like large, complex game worlds that take a lot of time and effort to get everything out of. However, today look at how most RPGs are simplified. Most of the games of the genere get by as being "challenging" or "hardcore" purely on length. Sometimes with an epic RPG I feel like the biggest challenge is being able to stick with it for 100+ hours of gameplay which no sane person would endure, with little going on to justify that. I mean, heck half the RPGs today basically play themselves (like the last two Final Fantasy games), and in a lot of cases the stats aren't much more complicated than playing "Rock Paper Scissors" where you can see what your opponent is going to throw ahead of time (ie use X, to counter Y... repete ad infinium), with that being not an aspect of combat, but the entire principle it's based on. Rock, Paper, Scissors never being a really intellectual passtime.
Truthfully I will also say that I think the term "gamer" exists to exclude normal guys like Yahtzee mentions. I mean that's because they are normal guys, not hobbyists. Above and beyond the quality of gamers the point is that those who "wear" that label good or bad are not involved in gaming as a passing amusement. The label "gamer" is used by those who employ it to diffentiate themselves from the mainstream. Right now you have divisions within the "gamer community" looking for sub labels.
At any rate, I guess all of this amounts to yet another expected "I am gamer, here me whine" rant.
I also can't complain too much because face it, I'm a broken unit physically and mentally. I fit every negative stereotype about gamers. I'm fat, have glasses, live at home, and others assorted things. I do however shower daily and don't smell of anything, and am clean shaven whenever I go out of the house.
I do understand where he's coming from though. Truthfully the term "gamer" for most of my life was mostly spent referring to people who played paper and pencil RPGs. For a long time it was something of a badge of honor and empowerment because you were dealing with a lot of very smart people. The industry started dumbing things down and trying to go increasingly mainstream. You wound up getting people involved who were not "smart nerds" but simply social rejects, this dragged things down. Kids were being brought into the hobby by differant marketing, and you even saw shifts from a situation where kids were a minority in the hobby (and mentioned in say the Forum of Dragon Magazine as one of the issues), to where they made up the majority of PnP gamers (and this of course also became a topic of discussion in things like the Forum of Dragon Magazine). At some point we got away from a collegiate level hobby where you might have one player out of a thousand (in the then much smaller community) who was a kid able to do it and see respect, to a situation where PnP RPGs became a stereotypical refuge for especially reject-worthy high school freshmen who couldn't even be redeemed by their relative intelligence. Compare say the current edition D&D books to the first edition of AD&D and the language that was used. That says a lot about the people that played and the requirements to understand one of these games.
As someone who rode the PnP bus as it went down in flames, watching as things changed, I can say that there was a lot of resentment similar to what Yahtzee seems to be feeling. A desire to differentiate yourself from the guys who got into the hobby when it expanded. I started gaming young, and had a lot of problems (as I've mentioned before), but I will say that I have met gamers that can almost inflict physical pain on me just by hearing them talk about gaming, and as much of a wreck as I am can sit there and go "that's what I've been associated with?".
It might be a passing distinction, but someone with a big huge brain (even if they are not smart in any practical way), who tends to be slobbish and socially awkward has some redeeming issues because he's ridiculously smart and knows all kinds of stuff. In many cases being like that because they are operating on a somewhat differant level from the norm. On the other hand someone who is like that and dumb, or simply of average intelligence, with no real base of knowlege, practical or otherwise, is simply a slob. To a lot of those people gaming is a way to try and justify themselves by latching on to a similar seeming group of people.
This is similar when it comes to video gaming, the current use for "gamer" in that the industry has also dumbed down, and gone mainstream. You have bucketloads of people streaming into the hobby, and acting like there is something to be proud of in being a "gamer" when any pride that could have come from that was washed away in lowering the bar to the point where they could be one.
To sort of put things into perspective, let's look at my favorite genere: RPGs. I love deep RPGs with tons of cutomization, items, stats, skills, and massive networks of spreadsheet like menus and sub-menus. All the stuff Yahtzee hates ironically given this message. I get a ridiculous amount of enjoyment out of tweaking variables and then watching what happens when I hit the "attack" button or whatever. I also like large, complex game worlds that take a lot of time and effort to get everything out of. However, today look at how most RPGs are simplified. Most of the games of the genere get by as being "challenging" or "hardcore" purely on length. Sometimes with an epic RPG I feel like the biggest challenge is being able to stick with it for 100+ hours of gameplay which no sane person would endure, with little going on to justify that. I mean, heck half the RPGs today basically play themselves (like the last two Final Fantasy games), and in a lot of cases the stats aren't much more complicated than playing "Rock Paper Scissors" where you can see what your opponent is going to throw ahead of time (ie use X, to counter Y... repete ad infinium), with that being not an aspect of combat, but the entire principle it's based on. Rock, Paper, Scissors never being a really intellectual passtime.
Truthfully I will also say that I think the term "gamer" exists to exclude normal guys like Yahtzee mentions. I mean that's because they are normal guys, not hobbyists. Above and beyond the quality of gamers the point is that those who "wear" that label good or bad are not involved in gaming as a passing amusement. The label "gamer" is used by those who employ it to diffentiate themselves from the mainstream. Right now you have divisions within the "gamer community" looking for sub labels.
At any rate, I guess all of this amounts to yet another expected "I am gamer, here me whine" rant.
I also can't complain too much because face it, I'm a broken unit physically and mentally. I fit every negative stereotype about gamers. I'm fat, have glasses, live at home, and others assorted things. I do however shower daily and don't smell of anything, and am clean shaven whenever I go out of the house.
Generally I want to agree with Yahtzee on stuff like this, but here I have to disagree. Yes, the word gamer has a certain image associated with it. However, the only way to get rid of that image is keep using it. When more "normal" people start calling themselves gamers and not just the sweaty, Cheeto-dust covered nerds who live in their parent's basements, the stereotype will go away or at least lose some of the severity.
I'm also really confused by this idea that the word gamer is meant to hold some level of pseudo-prestige. Since when? Last I checked being called a gamer was basically just different way to call yourself a nerd or a geek by focusing on one thing. What's wrong with actually owning it rather than letting it be something that gets to you? It's like a fat guy saying "yeah, I'm fat, and?" rather than getting all huffy about it.
I do kinda agree on the girl gamer thing though. Speaking as a girl who plays games and does so frequently, the "girl gamers" are really annoying. For one, most of them aren't. "Girl gamers" tend to be girls who played Halo and Guitar hero at their boyfriend's a few times and over heard a few of his friends say "Wow your girlfriend plays with you? That's awesome" and suddenly thought they were some rare species. The word gamer, to me anyway, indicates someone who has a love and a rather extensive knowledge of at least one genre.. not just a passing interest in a handful of games they occasionally play. I, for example, specialize in JRPGs and have a collection of over 100 spanning from the SNES to PS3.
In short, Keep the word Gamer, own it and love it. If you don't want to be considered a stereotype.. wash your hands, lose the weight and get a job. "Girl Gamers" bring a bad name to female gamers everywhere.
I'm also really confused by this idea that the word gamer is meant to hold some level of pseudo-prestige. Since when? Last I checked being called a gamer was basically just different way to call yourself a nerd or a geek by focusing on one thing. What's wrong with actually owning it rather than letting it be something that gets to you? It's like a fat guy saying "yeah, I'm fat, and?" rather than getting all huffy about it.
I do kinda agree on the girl gamer thing though. Speaking as a girl who plays games and does so frequently, the "girl gamers" are really annoying. For one, most of them aren't. "Girl gamers" tend to be girls who played Halo and Guitar hero at their boyfriend's a few times and over heard a few of his friends say "Wow your girlfriend plays with you? That's awesome" and suddenly thought they were some rare species. The word gamer, to me anyway, indicates someone who has a love and a rather extensive knowledge of at least one genre.. not just a passing interest in a handful of games they occasionally play. I, for example, specialize in JRPGs and have a collection of over 100 spanning from the SNES to PS3.
In short, Keep the word Gamer, own it and love it. If you don't want to be considered a stereotype.. wash your hands, lose the weight and get a job. "Girl Gamers" bring a bad name to female gamers everywhere.
Not ashamed about playing games. Ashamed to be associated with the lable of "gamer". When lables come into play I've actually preferred to be associated with the label "casual gamer" for the very reason that it doesn't associate me with the bleached-skin lactase-scented crowd. I don't play The Sims or anything, I just might not play games as much as my game-playing friends and certainly not with the same ferocity as some - hense "casual".
But if this need for being labled extended beyond "gamer" it would get ridiculous. To define oneself by one of your interests is stupid, (even if it is your ONLY interest.)
But if this need for being labled extended beyond "gamer" it would get ridiculous. To define oneself by one of your interests is stupid, (even if it is your ONLY interest.)
Irridium said:If you really want to be classified as "gamer", I have a handy dandy little chart so you can see what kind of gamer you are.
However thats only if you consider yourself a gamer, instead of simply "someone who play games".
Great. Well I guess I was a bit of console fag that made the transition to pcfag and nostalgia fag. Its a bit true tough, no more games like Planescape torment, Thief or Homeworld these days. But these days iam just a guy who actually likes videogames, most weekends i just beg my cousin to play a bit of street fighter 4 on his Ps3.
Thank you Yahtzee, I hate it when people refer to themselves as gamers. People on Youtube who call themselves professional gamers are the worst of them all! I like to troll them by calling them professional couch potatoes, they get mad every time. But seriously, I know of a certain neckbeard who refers to himself as a gamer and he fills out every stereotype imaginable. He doesn't play Guitar Hero but if he did, he'd totally be one of those guys playing Dragonforce to see if anyone is watching.
There's a word for someone who follows and enjoys movies. 'Movie buff' isn't a disrespectful term, but there isn't really a title for someone (barring 'gamer') who enjoy video games to the same extant.
I know the message is not to title people, and not to proclaim one's gaming interest. I just wanna know when it's okay to nerd out.
I know the message is not to title people, and not to proclaim one's gaming interest. I just wanna know when it's okay to nerd out.
I haven't used the word gamer since the old Hospot crew. Rich Gallup and Jeff Gerstmann took that word right out of my vocabulary. I still wince whenever I hear anyone say it. It just screams "marketing". Especially "hardcore gamer". Ugh.
it's good that you're taking a break, everyone needs to get away for some chill time at least once in a while
I ride escalators, use elevators, drive cars, talk on the phone, run, walk, jog, swim, breathe, eat, laugh, and observe.
By the same logic of calling myself a gamer, I am therefor a escalator-rider, elevator user, driver, talker, runner, walker, jogger, swimmer, breather, eater, laugher, and observer. (SC joke)
Do I use these things to define me? No. In the same sense I don't use gamer to define me. It's a fairly easy term to get rid of.
By the same logic of calling myself a gamer, I am therefor a escalator-rider, elevator user, driver, talker, runner, walker, jogger, swimmer, breather, eater, laugher, and observer. (SC joke)
Do I use these things to define me? No. In the same sense I don't use gamer to define me. It's a fairly easy term to get rid of.
Sylveria said:
There has been an association with intelligence attached to the term "gamer". At one time you had to be pretty smart to play a game of Paper and Pencil RPG, as the rules were written by college nerds, for other college nerds. When it came to video gaming playing games like RPGs took a lot of intelligence to figure them out and derive satisfaction from them. Heck, simply being able to get a lot of games to work took a decent understanding of computers and hardware.
Both with PnP and Video games they went mainstream, dumbed themselves down for a bigger audience, and with that audience came a lot of people with few, if any redeeming qualities.
To put things into perspective, an old school "gamer" of either sort could be a morbidly obese, or painfully thin nerd, with relatively bad personal hygiene, and no social skills and get a degree of respect for having a gigantic brain, even if not smart in any practical way. You had to be pretty bright to figure out how to play 1st Edition AD&D, or get a lot of computer games to even run on a system. Believe it or not there was a time when everything ran from a DOS prompt, and you need to know port settings for your graphics and video cards just to run a normal installation (never mind mess around with anything). While I'm barely proficient with windows nowadays (due to a lack of caring anymore), as a gamer I used to get called upon to do minor troubleshooting for systems all the bloody time (and used to be able to do it).
The thing is though that the games dumbed down, the systems became simpler, and you wound up with the mainstream in the gaming community. With the requirements lowered you wind up with people who are simply pathetic flocking into gaming, people who might live like some of the original gamers, except without any real redeeming characteristics. Today "that guy" is a slob because he's a slob, not because he's operating on a slightly differant wavelength, but actually knows and can do a lot of differant stuff.
While an exagerration (an extreme one) look at say the old "Revenge Of The Nerds" movies as the stereotype, and it also being funny as an exagerrated cautionary tale. It's also the classic definition from which things like the Best Buy "Geek Squad" draw their name (need to fix a computer? call a nerd...).
The problem is that today gamers are less like the guys exagerrated for those movies, and more like the kind of guys exagerrated for "Beavis and Butthead".
When looking at a "gamer" today a lot of them aren't likely to have a very well thought out opinion on anything. Most of them really can't do anything other than play increasingly simple games, and probably never were able to do anything before now either.
I pretty much match the quintessential depiction of the "gamer" today, but I at least did stuff (or tried). That's one of the reasons why I'm a bit elitist and judgemental, and why I go off about the evils of gaming becoming mainstream. Objectively I guess the new tech is better, but it did kind of ruin the community. Plus I'll admit that the past always seems better when it's the past. I'm self aware to realize that a lot of what I think about the fandom community (games, comics, pnp RPGs, etc..) is sort of like an aging baby boomer thinking back to the 1960s when he was a hippy through a haze of "never was". Sad given that I'm only 35, but when your forced into retirement all you have to do is rant about junk like this.
I never say I'm a gamer, and definately never a girl gamer. I usually say I like videogames, which gets me strange looks (I'm a woman). Or sometimes they ask me if I like the Sims. I dispize those games.
I always felt that gamer refered to someone who played all the time, like everyday for a few hours at least. I don't play that frequently so I never call myself a gamer.
I always felt that gamer refered to someone who played all the time, like everyday for a few hours at least. I don't play that frequently so I never call myself a gamer.