Don't wear the American Flag on your shirt in California schools, you might offend the Mexicans.
- Thread starter Frost27
- Start date
From what I read of the story back when it happened, it was pretty clear that the students were wearing the flags for the express purpose of being rude toward the others.
I see no problem with the school restricting the possibility of fights and other issues breaking out in their school. Anyone who thinks someone that is proud of their culture having "USA" chanted in a way that could not be meant to be anything but offensive seems a little silly to me.
I see no problem with the school restricting the possibility of fights and other issues breaking out in their school. Anyone who thinks someone that is proud of their culture having "USA" chanted in a way that could not be meant to be anything but offensive seems a little silly to me.
I side with the school, because I understand how decisions like this are made.Frost27 said:
Wearing the flag is not inflammatory per se. But wearing the flag specifically to be jerks to another group? That's different. The students weren't trying to show patriotric pride. They were mocking, taunting, or otherwise going after the patriotic pride of others.
Now, is it possible the kids doing the whole Mexican flag thing were also just trying to stir up trouble? Sure. It's possible the whole episode was one big, "I dare ya to say something!" The problem is, if that was the case, that the "USA" group took the dare.
We want to turn it into something about the flag, but it's not. It's about one group of kids trying to goad another group of kids into an altercation. They were using the flag, not honoring it.
The school's decision had nothing to do with the flag. It had to do with the fact that a group of kids were trying to pick a fight with another group of kids, and trying to hide that behind the technicality of "it's just a flag." The school wisely saw through the ruse and said, "No, you're trying to stir the shit. We'll have none of it."
Why? Because if even the slightest bit of violence had occurred between those kids:
1. Someone would have played up any injuries and made a big deal.
2. Someone would claim the school should have "seen it coming," so they're at fault.
3. Someone would contact the ACLU to get lawyers involved.
4. Everyone would sue the school, rather than each other, because the school is more likely to have money.
If two kids were trying to turn your yard into a battleground, you would remove them so that you don't get sued when they hurt each other.
Have you ever been to America? Walk down any street and look around. Anyone who isn't of indigenous descent is an immigrant or the direct descendant of immigrants.Dark Harbinger said:
*sigh* Indeed. I consider the fact that it took our brilliant politicians ages to even accept the fact that we have right-wing groups on the loose again ... But it's because of our 'history', eh? ... Gawd ...Lhianon said:
As for 'political correctness', though ...
When do we see that term used? When a phrase, action, statement, whatever is changed to be 'fine with the public'. So it isn't offensive to the target group.
Leads to two possible reasons:
a) The statement is supposed to be offensive, could draw unwanted attention, though.
b) The statement is believed to be offensive. In that case, the person in question believes what they say could offend someone, which to the core agrees with the setup of multiple ethnic groups with a weird perception of a certain statement.
Don't get me wrong, there certainly are statements that can be considered offensive without intentionally being so ... But if we honestly believe we need to change them beforehand to avoid the reaction is just plain pathetic, since there is no reason to believe those 'other groups' were 'too dumb to understand the actual intention'.
Everyone, please listen to this post. There is much wisdom within.Dags90 said:
I remember hearing about this story near the time the event actually happened (I think it was on a Cracked article) and my thoughts were 'so of all the days you could have chosen to show your 'patriotism' you chose the one day when they had the chance to be proud of their native culture?'.
Let's be blunt, this isn't any violation of free speech or any sign that 'this is what's wrong with our society', it was a bunch of obnoxious little shits who wanted to give a xenophobic 'fuck you' to the other students and get away with it.
This guy hits the nail on the head. Patriotism is fine, but it sounds like these students were mocking another culture using the flag as both a weapon and a shield. Pretty cowardly, and disrespectful to what the flag symbolises imo.Dastardly said:
If you want to show support for your country, do it. I wouldn't get angry if a bunch of Mexicans showed up here wearing the Mexican flag on their shirt, why the hell should they get pissed at me for wearing an American flag shirt IN AMERICA?
First of all, wearing an American flag is not inflammatory, especially since they're wearing them in the United States.
"A group of white students wearing T-Shirts bearing the American flag were asked to turn their shirts inside out due to the possibility it could have been inflammatory to the Mexican students at the school on Cinco de Mayo."
And since when have we become so sensitive to offending people that we've started taking into account theoretical offensiveness, even if we may not actually offend anyone. People get offended, that's part of life. If you accidentally offend someone, you apologize and explain that you didn't mean to offend them. End of story. I mean, you could potentially offend someone who is color blind by wearing a colorful shirt. Now that's a pretty out there example, but it's possible.
I just find it obscene that people are offended so easily now-a-days. So many innocent actions and words offend people that it's kinda hard not to laugh when a story says "This person offended by this thing" when it's clear it was an innocent mistake from the beginning.
"A group of white students wearing T-Shirts bearing the American flag were asked to turn their shirts inside out due to the possibility it could have been inflammatory to the Mexican students at the school on Cinco de Mayo."
And since when have we become so sensitive to offending people that we've started taking into account theoretical offensiveness, even if we may not actually offend anyone. People get offended, that's part of life. If you accidentally offend someone, you apologize and explain that you didn't mean to offend them. End of story. I mean, you could potentially offend someone who is color blind by wearing a colorful shirt. Now that's a pretty out there example, but it's possible.
I just find it obscene that people are offended so easily now-a-days. So many innocent actions and words offend people that it's kinda hard not to laugh when a story says "This person offended by this thing" when it's clear it was an innocent mistake from the beginning.
I seriously doubt they were wearing the flag `by coincidence`.
In fact, I'm pretty sure there was a cracked article about this a while back.
The kids were harrassing people celebrating Cinco de Mayo by shouting `USA` at them or whatever.
But lets rephrase it so that it sounds like our rights are being infringed!
In fact, I'm pretty sure there was a cracked article about this a while back.
The kids were harrassing people celebrating Cinco de Mayo by shouting `USA` at them or whatever.
But lets rephrase it so that it sounds like our rights are being infringed!
Its funny, Cinco de mayo is just another day in mexico. Its only celebrated a few times.
But I do believe that this is just a dump stupid thing, Schools go to far with crushing free speech because they are afraid to upset student(and my extension student parents)
When Sonia Sotomayor(a latina court justice) was nominated for the court and I said i didnt like it because i thought she was racist(i was very republican in my school days,Not so much now) and i was tole be queit because they thought i was antagonizing(at a time of school when we could discuss these types of things)
Or when i said i was in support of prop 8(not any more mind you) and again we were to do a video of things we wished the world to be like. We said yes to prop 8, The teacher said NO. I was prompted to call The ACLU and sue the teacher, if he wasnt my best friend.
But I do believe that this is just a dump stupid thing, Schools go to far with crushing free speech because they are afraid to upset student(and my extension student parents)
When Sonia Sotomayor(a latina court justice) was nominated for the court and I said i didnt like it because i thought she was racist(i was very republican in my school days,Not so much now) and i was tole be queit because they thought i was antagonizing(at a time of school when we could discuss these types of things)
Or when i said i was in support of prop 8(not any more mind you) and again we were to do a video of things we wished the world to be like. We said yes to prop 8, The teacher said NO. I was prompted to call The ACLU and sue the teacher, if he wasnt my best friend.
Hmmm. If they had to tell a group of students to do this, it sounds like it may have been intended as some kind of statement by the students.
Like "THIS IS AMERRICA!!!1!! We aint selebratin yer godamb beaner hollidays here!!!!!!@"
Were these kids racist assholes who were purposefully trying to be inflammatory?
It's like the article itself says "It's easy for conservative radio talk show hosts and other right-wing commentators to criticize the administrators, but they weren't there. They're speaking from ignorance. They don't have even the most basic understanding of the mood at the high school or the events of previous years."
I'm not from California, I don't know what this school is like. Maybe the school officials were right to do this, maybe there's a history of violence along racial lines there. Maybe the white kids were trying to be dicks, it sounds like that may be the case, especially considering how quickly they turned around and sued the school.
Like "THIS IS AMERRICA!!!1!! We aint selebratin yer godamb beaner hollidays here!!!!!!@"
Were these kids racist assholes who were purposefully trying to be inflammatory?
It's like the article itself says "It's easy for conservative radio talk show hosts and other right-wing commentators to criticize the administrators, but they weren't there. They're speaking from ignorance. They don't have even the most basic understanding of the mood at the high school or the events of previous years."
I'm not from California, I don't know what this school is like. Maybe the school officials were right to do this, maybe there's a history of violence along racial lines there. Maybe the white kids were trying to be dicks, it sounds like that may be the case, especially considering how quickly they turned around and sued the school.
Cinco de Mayo isn't even Independence Day in Mexico. September 16th is.
More to the point, even if it was September 16th and they asked/made them turn their shirts inside out, that's STILL absurd.
If a school made a Hispanic student turn their Mexican flag or "Hecho in Mexico" shirt inside out on Labor Day or Memorial Day or MLK's B-day (July 4th doesn't count as we're not even talking about Independence Day) there would be such an uproar about racism.
These school employees straight out asked these students to disrespect a symbol of their country. It may not have been an actual "flag desecration", but I still find this school policy disgusting.
I don't know what damages the parties are seeking though. Personally, I'd have refused to do it and then when inevitably sent home, would have caused a huge stink about it then. I think suing is a bit much.
Unless said students were sent home, then you could sue the school to bring back in their teachers, at full pay, to make up the lessons said students missed by being sent home. THAT would be excellent.
More to the point, even if it was September 16th and they asked/made them turn their shirts inside out, that's STILL absurd.
If a school made a Hispanic student turn their Mexican flag or "Hecho in Mexico" shirt inside out on Labor Day or Memorial Day or MLK's B-day (July 4th doesn't count as we're not even talking about Independence Day) there would be such an uproar about racism.
These school employees straight out asked these students to disrespect a symbol of their country. It may not have been an actual "flag desecration", but I still find this school policy disgusting.
I don't know what damages the parties are seeking though. Personally, I'd have refused to do it and then when inevitably sent home, would have caused a huge stink about it then. I think suing is a bit much.
Unless said students were sent home, then you could sue the school to bring back in their teachers, at full pay, to make up the lessons said students missed by being sent home. THAT would be excellent.