DOOM: ETERNAL's Unapologetic Western Masculinity

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

You mean Samual Hayden? S. Hayden? Satan?

TBH, I think that's a stretch. Hayden has plenty of blood on his hands, but he's not Satan, and actually helps the Doom Slayer fight the demons. Hardly a good person, but not exactly the Prince of Evil either.

They pulled the same stunt in Doom 3, and in Doom 4 he's clearly in some way in league with the demons. He is pretty much the sole survivor of the catastrophe, and manipulates you the entire way of getting the magical McGuffin back and then merely outrightly just tells you he's doing it for humanity's sake.

Literally only DoomGuy and Hayden are the *only ones* not to be transformed into demon spawn or to have died. Arguably the only reason Samuel worked with DG is to get the Crucible back. Even if he isn't the literal Satan ... c'mon .... clearly a demon-to-be at least, if not already demonically possessed.

I'm just calling it likes I sees it.

 

[sXeth]

You mean Samual Hayden? S. Hayden? Satan?

TBH, I think that's a stretch. Hayden has plenty of blood on his hands, but he's not Satan, and actually helps the Doom Slayer fight the demons. Hardly a good person, but not exactly the Prince of Evil either.

They pulled the same stunt in Doom 3, and in Doom 4 he's clearly in some way in league with the demons. He is pretty much the sole survivor of the catastrophe, and manipulates you the entire way of getting the magical McGuffin back and then merely outrightly just tells you he's doing it for humanity's sake.

Literally only DoomGuy and Hayden are the *only ones* not to be transformed into demon spawn or to have died. Arguably the only reason Samuel worked with DG is to get the Crucible back. Even if he isn't the literal Satan ... c'mon .... clearly a demon-to-be at least, if not already demonically possessed.

I'm just calling it likes I sees it.

Doomguy doesn't get transformed because Willpower/the crypt shielding him/angelic magic.
Hayden doesn't transform because he's a giant ass combat (or at least combat capable) mech rather then an organic human. None of the upgrade drones or VEGA transformed either.

Of the those explanations, Hayden's is the one that makes more sense (although not why he didn't ever make any more combat mechs as some kind of safety measure rather then apparently useless Praetorian guards, particularly after the trip into hell that only he survived to get Doomguy).

Hell having competing factions (while not directly mentioned, the intro voice seems to be on your side, which is also whoever recorded the Doomslayer testaments that seem somewhat in praise of him) isn't unlikely, and Hayden maybe aligning or being manipulated by one is possible (something gave him the idea to go build a portal to hell somehow). But I'm skeptical that he's directly one.

 

[PapaGreg096]

Funny enough though Shaun made a video on the fake outrage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l63nY0AYebI
TLR People are only showing a few tweets and calling it "Outrage"

 

[Dalisclock]

The whole thing is reaching. If anything, it struck me as demons having somehow hijacked the PA system, as if to go "ha ha, we've won, we get to laugh, suck it measly humans!"

There's a scene in Mars Attacks where the Martians are carrying a device with them that continually translates their speech to "Don't run! We are your friends!" in the middle of their comrades destroying everything and everyone around them.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is something similar.

Not to mention Valve did the "Mocking/Hostile PA system" a long time ago(Half Life/Portal), and only because I can't be bothered to go search for an earlier example right now

 

[Something Amyss]

So I'm not clicking a video and corrupting my watch history after I just got the last garbage channel out of my recs. Is there a synopsis or something for those of us who don't want to click?

 

[BrawlMan]

So I'm not clicking a video and corrupting my watch history after I just got the last garbage channel out of my recs. Is there a synopsis or something for those of us who don't want to click?

It's a smug ***** boasting and complaining about nothing. Cuck this. SJW pandering dat. You're not missing much.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I don't think masculinity is something that need be apologized for so I am confused about the concept of "unapologetic masculinity" but I just started playing the witcher 3 and that game epitomizes that concept and practically everyone loves that series to death so I'm sure Doon will be fine too and whoever is against it will miss out on an awesome game.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Wolfenstein 2 is pro SJW/feminist. it loose money

What the fuck are you talking about? The game was a commercial success. Just on PC is sold 57% more in one month than the first one did in almost a year.

DOOM eternal is opposite and its making money.

You know the game isn't even out yet, right? So how is it making money?

 

[Trunkage]

I don't think masculinity is something that need be apologized for so I am confused about the concept of "unapologetic masculinity" but I just started playing the witcher 3 and that game epitomizes that concept and practically everyone loves that series to death so I'm sure Doon will be fine too and whoever is against it will miss out on an awesome game.

I've seen people mistake negative comments about toxic masculinity as negative comments about masculinity. What the Proud Boys initiation - something like: "white men made civilization, we don't have to be ashamed." Because any criticism of white men is a criticism of everything white men

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Doomguy doesn't get transformed because Willpower/the crypt shielding him/angelic magic.

That and he's the Doom Slayer ... and the player avatar through the game. That being said arguably he basically gives the tools to humanity's future doom right back into the hands of the one that will bring ruin to all.

Hayden doesn't transform because he's a giant ass combat (or at least combat capable) mech rather then an organic human. None of the upgrade drones or VEGA transformed either.

Of the those explanations, Hayden's is the one that makes more sense (although not why he didn't ever make any more combat mechs as some kind of safety measure rather then apparently useless Praetorian guards, particularly after the trip into hell that only he survived to get Doomguy).

Hell having competing factions (while not directly mentioned, the intro voice seems to be on your side, which is also whoever recorded the Doomslayer testaments that seem somewhat in praise of him) isn't unlikely, and Hayden maybe aligning or being manipulated by one is possible (something gave him the idea to go build a portal to hell somehow). But I'm skeptical that he's directly one.

It's been years since I played the Doom games, but VEGA is an AI .... and I'm not saying that Samuel Hayden is Satan specifically ... more like a future vehicle or vessel that is being manipulated by a powerful demonic force. In the same way Pierce was. It's no less telegraphed by the antagonist in Doom 3 and it feels about as mature or subtle as id Software will allow with the franchise. And with good reason, Doom has always hada fairly straightforward 'moral coding'.

Demons go explode, corporations will doom us all.

Like ..., let's just picture the absurdity of the Doom universe. People learn Hell, or at least some part of the romanticised ideas of itbeing a transcendental plane filled with the suffering of the damned and demons, is real. And rather than being blown away by the philosophical and theosophical ramifications of that capitalists try to mine it.

It's gloriously tacky, unadulterated black and white morality that ultimately speaks to humanity's worst impulses.

In that fashion I feel like it's telegraphing the fact that Samuel Hayden will eventually be the embodiment of the worst aspects of this demonic war is roughly on par with tone and prior takes on this absurdist mess.

I reckon it's even money at this point. After all, it totally works that by some design Hayden was working with DG solely to get the Crucible back. And I could totally see why a major demonic faction would want to see that come to fruition.

 

[sXeth]

I reckon it's even money at this point. After all, it totally works that by some design Hayden was working with DG solely to get the Crucible back. And I could totally see why a major demonic faction would want to see that come to fruition.

There's always the possibility that he's a Hellblazer(Constantine) style Humanist. While willing to use the tools of either demons (Argent stuff) or Angels/Argent Wizards or whatever (Doomguy, who is not human in origin in this version) and the Crucible), rejecting their absolute morality swings and trying to eke out Humanity's fortunes. Though obviously an antagonist variant as opposed to Constantine's protagonist variant.

That more storytelling and nuance then Doom usually goes for, but then, so were most of the codex lorebits that made that possible. Possibly being owned by an RPG studio and getting rid of John "Story in games is like story in porn" Carmack might've upticked the writing quality marginally (Not that Bethesda's especially distinguished itself from a writing standpoint in recent times).

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

There's always the possibility that he's a Hellblazer(Constantine) style Humanist. While willing to use the tools of either demons (Argent stuff) or Angels/Argent Wizards or whatever (Doomguy, who is not human in origin in this version) and the Crucible), rejecting their absolute morality swings and trying to eke out Humanity's fortunes. Though obviously an antagonist variant as opposed to Constantine's protagonist variant.

That more storytelling and nuance then Doom usually goes for, but then, so were most of the codex lorebits that made that possible. Possibly being owned by an RPG studio and getting rid of John "Story in games is like story in porn" Carmack might've upticked the writing quality marginally (Not that Bethesda's especially distinguished itself from a writing standpoint in recent times).

I think that's kind of a dangerous twist to make givem, let's face it, players themselves will want to tear off his mechanical leg and beat him to death with it. So the idea of making a capitalist sympathetic that was knowingly corrupt that invited the apocalypse and will likely do so again after betraying the one person that was about to stop it is going to come off as tone deaf.

If Doom is anything it's raw catharsis through ultra-violence. Andthe best way to achieve that is through minimal moral dilemma. If Hayden is the pseudo saint as you might hypothesize he is, why exactly is the UAC so god awful an institution to begin with? It's not an upstanding organization. At all.

They use corporate doublespeak to just handwash a possible demonic invasion of the Solar system they initiated with a faux sincerity that groups like Apple whitewash with their products, even as they are being made in the atrocious working conditions of sweatshops in China.

Making Hayden sympathetic would be a bad call. Players should want to bludgeon him to death with his own mechanical legs. That's not to say that he shouldn't be compelling. Or make compelling arguments. Play up that idea of a demonic user of people to simply get what he wants. It worked in Doom 4. But clearly he should be without remorse and without redeeming qualities. Thoroughly wrong in all dimensions.

And that's why I reckon his name is a telegraph to begin with. If you make bargains with him, you know they are utterly Faustian.

 

[lionsprey]

So I'm not clicking a video and corrupting my watch history after I just got the last garbage channel out of my recs. Is there a synopsis or something for those of us who don't want to click?

its the typical alt right overreaction. a few people say "i liked the game but i'm not fond of this joke because it kind of seems like its comparing refuges with demons" and the alt right starts screaming their usual garbage. personally a part of me hopes they remove the joke because the rage from it happening might give a few of the alt right heart attacks.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

its the typical alt right overreaction. a few people say "i liked the game but i'm not fond of this joke because it kind of seems like its comparing refuges with demons" and the alt right starts screaming their usual garbage. personally a part of me hopes they remove the joke because the rage from it happening might give a few of the alt right heart attacks.

Ehhhh ... is it though? Does anybody legitimately believe refugees are twisted hellspawn? I saw it more in lines of Earth being a castle under siege, and the UAC literally threw open the gates and is trying to fabricate an excuse for their naked greed of essentially working with the enemy (or at least its tools).

How capitalists will literally sell you out of your life and liberty if it made them a few extra bucks ...

 

[lionsprey]

The whole thing is reaching. If anything, it struck me as demons having somehow hijacked the PA system, as if to go "ha ha, we've won, we get to laugh, suck it measly humans!"

Wolfenstein 2 is pro SJW/feminist. it loose money

Source needed.

I'm playing through Dead Rising 2 now, and that game has entire organization pushing "zombies are people too" narrative.

In the context of DR2, I think it's pretty reasonable. Every zombie is a former human, and this is a world where it's possible to at least keep the infection in check. The idea that zombies should be protected does carry weight in as much that they're infected humans, that every zombie killed in the show Chuck participates in is one that will never be able to come back.

i was under the impression that their stance was "maybe we shouldn't use peoples remains for entertainment" rather then some kind of "save the zombies" argument.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

>Woke
Shouldn't it be "redpilled"?

Redpilled is for the time when you realize that men are the ones who are really oppressed by society. Woke is when you realize the altright is right. There's some overlap, but they are distinct. Some parts of the altright also use Woke ironically as a way to describe PC and SJW culture (as in the meme of "EA going woke, getting broke" over BFV).

 

[lionsprey]

its the typical alt right overreaction. a few people say "i liked the game but i'm not fond of this joke because it kind of seems like its comparing refuges with demons" and the alt right starts screaming their usual garbage. personally a part of me hopes they remove the joke because the rage from it happening might give a few of the alt right heart attacks.

Ehhhh ... is it though? Does anybody legitimately believe refugees are twisted hellspawn? I saw it more in lines of Earth being a castle under siege, and the UAC literally threw open the gates and is trying to fabricate an excuse for their naked greed of essentially working with the enemy (or at least its tools).

How capitalists will literally sell you out of your life and liberty if it made them a few extra bucks ...

that is the obvious connection considering the lore etc. but i admire your naivety when it comes to the alt-right.
i can assure you that there are plenty of people out there that think refuges are hostile invaders with the goal of destroying western civilization and so comparing them with literal spawns of hell only capable of murder and destruction makes perfect sense to them.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

that is the obvious connection considering the lore etc. but i admire your naivety when it comes to the alt-right.
i can assure you that there are plenty of people out there that think refuges are hostile invaders with the goal of destroying western civilization and so comparing them with literal spawns of hell only capable of murder and destruction makes perfect sense to them.

Oh... I'm sure there are legitimately twisted people that view others' suffering that way, but it strikes me as odd people would legitimately believe id Software would compare various refugee crises to a demonic hellspawn horde...

And if that were the case, then they are truly awful people and I don't plan to fund that sort of commentary in the future. Given the tone, theme, and plot, I find it difficult to believe id would do that.

 

[sXeth]

I think that's kind of a dangerous twist to make givem, let's face it, players themselves will want to tear off his mechanical leg and beat him to death with it. So the idea of making a capitalist sympathetic that was knowingly corrupt that invited the apocalypse and will likely do so again after betraying the one person that was about to stop it is going to come off as tone deaf.

If Doom is anything it's raw catharsis through ultra-violence. Andthe best way to achieve that is through minimal moral dilemma. If Hayden is the pseudo saint as you might hypothesize he is, why exactly is the UAC so god awful an institution to begin with? It's not an upstanding organization. At all.

They use corporate doublespeak to just handwash a possible demonic invasion of the Solar system they initiated with a faux sincerity that groups like Apple whitewash with their products, even as they are being made in the atrocious working conditions of sweatshops in China.

Making Hayden sympathetic would be a bad call. Players should want to bludgeon him to death with his own mechanical legs. That's not to say that he shouldn't be compelling. Or make compelling arguments. Play up that idea of a demonic user of people to simply get what he wants. It worked in Doom 4. But clearly he should be without remorse and without redeeming qualities. Thoroughly wrong in all dimensions.

And that's why I reckon his name is a telegraph to begin with. If you make bargains with him, you know they are utterly Faustian.

I mostly throw out the idea (in which I specifically noted he'd still be an antagonist, most certainly not a saint) because in its own incredibly heavily handed way, Doom16 was trying to throw down (or at least invoke) the "People are the real monsters" trope for most of the game. If the Doomslayer subverts it (which there brief flickers of like saving VEGA), it makes sense for Hayden to uphold it as a villain or even the final villain by not being demon-affiliated, but just a trashbag of a human-turned-robo-being. The humanist thing also partially becomes because he clearly sees the Doomslayer as a tool to be kept in a box rather then some sort of actual being, and he's outright contemptuous about Pierce's allegiance to the demons, calling her weak for doing so.

(Another perhaps more useful example of the sort of character would be the Illusive Man in Mass Effect, at least before his becoming an absolute caricature in ME3. And if the aliens in Mass Effect were apocalyptically dangerous hostiles and a barely known race whose only surviving member is also an incredibly dangerous and violent individual and not mostly neutral-friendly. Who also funnily enough keeps the hero locked away in a lab until deploying them as a last ditch solution against the threat, and tries to backstab them and acquire the tech at the end)

 

[WindKnight]

that is the obvious connection considering the lore etc. but i admire your naivety when it comes to the alt-right.
i can assure you that there are plenty of people out there that think refuges are hostile invaders with the goal of destroying western civilization and so comparing them with literal spawns of hell only capable of murder and destruction makes perfect sense to them.

Oh... I'm sure there are legitimately twisted people that view others' suffering that way, but it strikes me as odd people would legitimately believe id Software would compare various refugee crises to a demonic hellspawn horde...

And if that were the case, then they are truly awful people and I don't plan to fund that sort of commentary in the future. Given the tone, theme, and plot, I find it difficult to believe id would do that.

I've seen it be described as satirising corporate culture co-opting progressive language, and I agree that's probably the intent, but without context, its unclear.

I remember a few 'left wing' folks (and i'll include myself) being uncomfortable with the jokes, and there's absolutely been right wingers taking it straight and salivating over it.

And also about 18 or so videos by 'youtube rationalists' calling out the the 'SJW's' for 'crying rivers of tears' over the jokes.

Funny enough though Shaun made a video on the fake outrage.
TLR People are only showing a few tweets and calling it "Outrage"

As detailed in this video here.