Dragon age 3 you will once again be playing as a human
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I feel like the biggest problem was that conversation wheel.
Basically it stuck Hawke with three different personalities for most of the time. Any deviation in choice made Hawke look like a bipolar asshole. There were only a few instances where there where simply different things to say and that's what Bioware needs to stick with.
Basically it stuck Hawke with three different personalities for most of the time. Any deviation in choice made Hawke look like a bipolar asshole. There were only a few instances where there where simply different things to say and that's what Bioware needs to stick with.
I imagine you'll still be able to get dwarf and elf (etc) party members?
if they want to make the main character a human so they can make the introduction a more focused event, then that sounds fine to me.
It's probably a lot easier on the writing team when they can say with certainty 'the player is human, therefore these people / races react to him/her in this manner'.
And if complaints are purely for the visual effect, within a few weeks of release there'll probably be a - main character elf/dwarf/gnome model replacer - mod thing.
if they want to make the main character a human so they can make the introduction a more focused event, then that sounds fine to me.
It's probably a lot easier on the writing team when they can say with certainty 'the player is human, therefore these people / races react to him/her in this manner'.
And if complaints are purely for the visual effect, within a few weeks of release there'll probably be a - main character elf/dwarf/gnome model replacer - mod thing.
For the OT:
I'm one of the eight people who actually liked DA2 over DAO so this isn't worrying me too much. I'll admit I was hoping for some kind of a generic background(s) (like ME had) with multiple race options (e.g. Neverwinter Nights 2), but I'm okay with just human.
My problem with the multiple origins of DAO is that they ultimately became the only part of the story I could focus on. It's totally awesome to be the pompous daughter of a dwarven king or an outraged elven bride going on a killing spree, but when your character is eventually shepherded into the status of Grey Warden things seem to become distressingly generic. At that point I find myself jumping from character-to-character depending on my location/objective. It's great to be an exiled dwarf in Orzammar, but when I'm in the Dalish camp, or just about anywhere else, my character may as well be human anyway.
I'm one of the eight people who actually liked DA2 over DAO so this isn't worrying me too much. I'll admit I was hoping for some kind of a generic background(s) (like ME had) with multiple race options (e.g. Neverwinter Nights 2), but I'm okay with just human.
My problem with the multiple origins of DAO is that they ultimately became the only part of the story I could focus on. It's totally awesome to be the pompous daughter of a dwarven king or an outraged elven bride going on a killing spree, but when your character is eventually shepherded into the status of Grey Warden things seem to become distressingly generic. At that point I find myself jumping from character-to-character depending on my location/objective. It's great to be an exiled dwarf in Orzammar, but when I'm in the Dalish camp, or just about anywhere else, my character may as well be human anyway.
The doubt comes from the fact that the claim is ridiculous. Dragon Age: Origins was really big. Unless they just artificially scale up the size of the world and make it empty the idea is pretty laughable.Draech said:
Yep. You made "powerful choices" that had no impact on anything. That's Dragon Age 2 in a nutshell.Milanezi said:
So it did. I was replying to your post replying to his post and hadn't read the actual article. Now I have, and you're right. It's much less ridiculous to claim to be bigger than Dragon Age 2.Draech said:
Not true. I honestly don't care about dwarves/elves being cut. The article said a lot of things I like. /shrug I won't believe any of it until I play the game (which I'll buy used if at all).
The thing is that Bioware is facing a lack of faith, harping on the positive points is kind of pointless at this point since the negatives have been dragging down their titles, and even the positive seeming stuff has to be interpeted as it hasn't exactly panned out as they promised.Revnak said:
The way I, and others, see things nowadays is that we already know from "Dragon Age: Origins" that there is no reason why there can't be playable origin stories, and protaganists of more than one race. When Bioware decides not to deliver those things it raises the questions of what else they are skimping on in terms of delivery.
From my perspective it's a matter of Bioware earning back the trust of it's fans like me, who contributed to their "record sales" of those previous titles but were disappointed (you really can't tell much about a game until you've paid for it, and getting games upon initial release has burned many of us here). I do not think Bioware deserves "benefit of the doubt" in any way shape or form, and any claim they make that is positive needs to be taken with healthy skepticism after the promises made about the ME3 ending and what they delivered (with evidence via their own interviews that they had no intention of delivering what they were promising).
I understand if you disagree, but as the OP seems to show, I'm not the only one taking this attitude at the moment.
Not liking the Castle thing. It sounds good but Neverwinter Nights 2 did it and it was at the start of managing it that I stopped on both play throughs. It just interrupts the story and makes for a massive shift in the pace and style if you really want to make it useful. If it just brings in money, then you need something worth buying and seriously, is it really necessary to micro manage for the sake of a high teir of items.
Personally this one is not sounding very good to me yet. I liked the diversity of the first, sticking us with only a human in a diverse world feels like a step back, will have to see what they do about getting us out in the world again before I make a final judgment.
Personally this one is not sounding very good to me yet. I liked the diversity of the first, sticking us with only a human in a diverse world feels like a step back, will have to see what they do about getting us out in the world again before I make a final judgment.
We will see who is right when the game comes out. Like Zachary said, their only support is, "Trust us." After Dragon Age II and Mass Effect 3, that sort of "Trust us" statement from Bioware seems hollow to me. If that makes me jaded then so be it, but like I said earlier, this more of hyping the game as opposed to "information". When I see gameplay footage, then I will make my conclusion. As it stands now, Bioware wants me to make my conclusion based off of their name alone. After the utter disappointments they have crapped out recently, I refuse to do that or take their word on any of this. There was a lot of positive "information" before Dragon Age II came out.Draech said:
You know I really don't mind playing the human, there is some disappointment in not having a choice in race but at least there is some option in backstory which I'm hoping will at least allow a small variation in starting stats and skills, and preferably one offbeat/comedic backstory for a wacky deadpan snarker,
" at some point in your childhood Flemeth kicked you in the shin, ever since that day you've annoyed everyone with your shin scar in the shape of a dragon, you just have to show it to everybody you meet, no matter how serious the situation is.. for some reason you find it hard to make friends."
but more importantly, I now feel the need to replay Dragon age 2 can't say I felt the need before I didn't hate it, aside from one character based retcon, but it left less of an impression on me that the first game did and I feel enough time has passed now to see if it was a fair assessment or just me being an ass because it wasn't what I wanted from Dragon age 2.
" at some point in your childhood Flemeth kicked you in the shin, ever since that day you've annoyed everyone with your shin scar in the shape of a dragon, you just have to show it to everybody you meet, no matter how serious the situation is.. for some reason you find it hard to make friends."
but more importantly, I now feel the need to replay Dragon age 2 can't say I felt the need before I didn't hate it, aside from one character based retcon, but it left less of an impression on me that the first game did and I feel enough time has passed now to see if it was a fair assessment or just me being an ass because it wasn't what I wanted from Dragon age 2.
*digs through all the mindless EA/Bioware-hate*
Looks good, I suppose? My problem with the DA franchise is that the titles feel so...disconnected from one another. We're gonna play a new protagonist in DA3? Why? We already have the warden and/or Hawke. Creating three protagonists does not create the same level of attachment and personal feeling that could be felt in the mass effect series. So im not so sure im positive about all that.
Couldnt really care less about the "human only" option, I'd rather they focus content on fewer customization options and make it good then spread it out thinly and make it less quality.
Lack of protagonist voice-acting in DA1 acting as a strong example of that.
Most other things look good enough, happy to see the game and its scenery will have a bit bigger scope. A needed change from DA2.
All in all, I'll definetly try the title, but I wish I could've been more excited. Perhaps I'll be positivly surprised. One can hope.
Looks good, I suppose? My problem with the DA franchise is that the titles feel so...disconnected from one another. We're gonna play a new protagonist in DA3? Why? We already have the warden and/or Hawke. Creating three protagonists does not create the same level of attachment and personal feeling that could be felt in the mass effect series. So im not so sure im positive about all that.
Couldnt really care less about the "human only" option, I'd rather they focus content on fewer customization options and make it good then spread it out thinly and make it less quality.
Lack of protagonist voice-acting in DA1 acting as a strong example of that.
Most other things look good enough, happy to see the game and its scenery will have a bit bigger scope. A needed change from DA2.
All in all, I'll definetly try the title, but I wish I could've been more excited. Perhaps I'll be positivly surprised. One can hope.
Say what you like about the alternate origins in DA:O, but it won't change the fact that I think my favourite part of the game was when I ran into Gorim in Denerim on my first playthrough, which was as a Dwarven Noble. I just imagined my PC doing the whole boisterous Dwarf thing of crying out "Brother!" from across the market square before embracing him in a totally manly hug with three (no more, no less) pats on the back. Swapping stories about what happend since Orzammar, and so on.
Okay, okay, so I'm probably the only one who really liked that bit that much. But to get to my actual point, I realise I'm in the minority but I don't think it's healthy to start chipping away features of your game just because only the minority enjoyed them. I expect that everyone who's a fan of big RPGs has some minor feature that they love despite being in the minority about it. I just think that cutting minor features in order to contribute the time and energy towards the nebulous concept of making the game better will lead to you losing fans who enjoyed those features without gaining any through the minor, hard to detect improvements you might make here and there.
Anyway, that's my opinion on why it's a bad idea to ignore a minority just because they're minority.
Now onto the silly stuff.
1: Let's make both sides happy. People who preferred the Mass Effect or DA2 style of PC can have a human with voiced dialogue and more realistic mannerisms. Fans of the DA:O style get a Qunari. He/she stands bolt upright in conversations, glaring intently at the person they're talking to. They only talk like a character who's ticking things off on a list of "Stuff I need to know about this quest". Their lines are unvoiced to avoid betraying any emotion other than that imagined by the player. Basically they're an old-school RPG protagonist who's still acting in character.
2: I will probably not buy DA3. That's the long and short of it. However! I will buy it if it's possible for the PC to have a threesome with Isabela and Zevran again, thus creating a running joke where those two hunt down the most important people in Thedas and sleep with them all together.
That is all.
Okay, okay, so I'm probably the only one who really liked that bit that much. But to get to my actual point, I realise I'm in the minority but I don't think it's healthy to start chipping away features of your game just because only the minority enjoyed them. I expect that everyone who's a fan of big RPGs has some minor feature that they love despite being in the minority about it. I just think that cutting minor features in order to contribute the time and energy towards the nebulous concept of making the game better will lead to you losing fans who enjoyed those features without gaining any through the minor, hard to detect improvements you might make here and there.
Anyway, that's my opinion on why it's a bad idea to ignore a minority just because they're minority.
Now onto the silly stuff.
1: Let's make both sides happy. People who preferred the Mass Effect or DA2 style of PC can have a human with voiced dialogue and more realistic mannerisms. Fans of the DA:O style get a Qunari. He/she stands bolt upright in conversations, glaring intently at the person they're talking to. They only talk like a character who's ticking things off on a list of "Stuff I need to know about this quest". Their lines are unvoiced to avoid betraying any emotion other than that imagined by the player. Basically they're an old-school RPG protagonist who's still acting in character.
2: I will probably not buy DA3. That's the long and short of it. However! I will buy it if it's possible for the PC to have a threesome with Isabela and Zevran again, thus creating a running joke where those two hunt down the most important people in Thedas and sleep with them all together.
That is all.
I'm not buying the argument that says "I'd rather them limit the choices and make what is there quality". I get what you're saying, but choice is inherent to RPGs. This isn't an either/or situation. As an RPG fan, I want choice and I want those choices to be quality. That's not unreasonable, as it's been done again and again.
Can we please just have the Dragon Age franchise go back to do its own thing?
Bioware Rpg titles does not have to rip off the Mass Effect design. Dragon Age: Origins sold fairly well even though it was vastly different from ME - variety is good, it adds personality to the game, depth and needlessly many conversation options for added replayability. I rather enjoyed playing as a somewhat one-minded Shepard with different moralities, then switching over to The Warden, who could condemn a people to eternal torment, have them fight it out with another group, give them salvation, or leave in indifference or a bloodbath.
Both types of morality, conversations and choice were unique to one another, by Dragon Age 2, they were not even trying to hide someone went into the DA development conference and uttered "So that Mass Affect game has been selling well, what can we transfer into this franchise to copy the succes?".
Both styles are good, but it is the variety that ultimate makes both appealing for different reasons. If not it is boiled down to "Do you want Bioware Game X (Fantasy)? Or Bioware Game X (Sci-Fi)?" instead of "Do you want Rpg X or Rpg Y?".
Now bear in mind, I do not mind the added voice acting all that much, but I swear if I see that conversation wheel again I will have Hawke 2 use the option that makes him/her fry him-/herself alive, in an either benevolent, witty or malevolent tone.
I admire the Dragon Age developer team, but I seriously wanna have their marketing department have an hour long meeting with Renegade Shepard and Hawke, see how well things would work out.
Bioware Rpg titles does not have to rip off the Mass Effect design. Dragon Age: Origins sold fairly well even though it was vastly different from ME - variety is good, it adds personality to the game, depth and needlessly many conversation options for added replayability. I rather enjoyed playing as a somewhat one-minded Shepard with different moralities, then switching over to The Warden, who could condemn a people to eternal torment, have them fight it out with another group, give them salvation, or leave in indifference or a bloodbath.
Both types of morality, conversations and choice were unique to one another, by Dragon Age 2, they were not even trying to hide someone went into the DA development conference and uttered "So that Mass Affect game has been selling well, what can we transfer into this franchise to copy the succes?".
Both styles are good, but it is the variety that ultimate makes both appealing for different reasons. If not it is boiled down to "Do you want Bioware Game X (Fantasy)? Or Bioware Game X (Sci-Fi)?" instead of "Do you want Rpg X or Rpg Y?".
Now bear in mind, I do not mind the added voice acting all that much, but I swear if I see that conversation wheel again I will have Hawke 2 use the option that makes him/her fry him-/herself alive, in an either benevolent, witty or malevolent tone.
I admire the Dragon Age developer team, but I seriously wanna have their marketing department have an hour long meeting with Renegade Shepard and Hawke, see how well things would work out.
It's harder to write a story with a misc. character with a title ("Bhaal Spawn" and "Grey Warden")
Why does everyone think this is EA's sudden doing...
Why is this automatically such a bad thing?
Most of the dialogue choices in the BG series, and in DA led to the same response or were barely worth noticing. For most of DA:O outside of your origin nothing was important. Occasionally you are called knife ears as an elf, you get a slightly different epilogue. It's nice to design your character a bit more but really who cares in terms of what it deducts from the game because you ultimately lose maybe a bit of dialogue. Come on
Why does everyone think this is EA's sudden doing...
Why is this automatically such a bad thing?
Most of the dialogue choices in the BG series, and in DA led to the same response or were barely worth noticing. For most of DA:O outside of your origin nothing was important. Occasionally you are called knife ears as an elf, you get a slightly different epilogue. It's nice to design your character a bit more but really who cares in terms of what it deducts from the game because you ultimately lose maybe a bit of dialogue. Come on
Perhaps it isn't a big deal to some, but speaking for myself, I am a human every day of my life. When I wake up, I'm a human, when I go to work I'm a human, when I go to the beach I'm a human. When I do everything in my real life I am a human, so why, when I am playing another character in a FANTASY world, would I want to be a human? I'm already a human. It gets boring.
Aside from that, I feel like there's so much potential to explore there with the different races. Particularly the animosity between Elves and Humans. Perhaps this is my own life experience talking, but as a multi-racial person who's faced more than her fair share of racism, I can appreciate the position of the Elves, the Dalish most of all. In truth, I can identify with the Elves of the Dragon Age world far more than I can with the humans. To be blunt, I really, truly, dislike the humans of that world so far and feel absolutely NO desire to play as one.
The lack of choices when it comes to race may not be a big deal for some of you, but it's almost a deal breaker for me. I'm sick of humans. And not just in Dragon Age, but in RPGs in general. In Final Fantasy the hero is almost (and yes I said ALMOST, I remember Zidane and Terra, you know) always human, in the Tales games you're a human. Human here, human there, human everywhere. I see humans every day in real life, give me a little respite from them please. Why do you think the notion of aliens is so appealing to so many for goodness' sake?
I mean, Zelda is highly popular and successful and, GASP!, the hero is not a human! OMG, it's the end of the world as we know it! -faints-
Star Ocean's Ratix (or Roddick, whatever you prefer) wasn't human, was he? The original Star Ocean was a wonderful game and a welcome break from all the human infested RPG, Shooter, Strategy, and Adventure games out there.
Don't get me wrong, I love guys like Zack Fair, Sephiroth (science experiment, but still human born, just kind of an altered human. And I. Couldn't. Play. As. Him!. -rages against the unfairness of it all-), Kefka (-cackles the maniacal laughter of Kefka-), Cecil, Fei Fong Wong, Ryudo the Geohound, Shion Uzuki, Yuri Hyuga, Yuri Lowell, Justin (Grandia), et cetera, et cetera, blah, blah, but honestly, enough with the humans. Can you not see why I'm getting sick of them? There's Just. So. Many!
A game can be successful without human protagonists being shoved down our throats at every turn. In a world like Dragon Age, where once upon a time in a game far, far away, we were able not only to choose how our characters began, but also what race they would be, it's hard to go back to yet another generic human hero you see in almost every game out there. Seriously, I think I might just pass out from the monotony of it all. I can feel it, my eyes are drifting closed, everything is getting hazy!
From the sounds of it they're not even going to do anything really special or inspiring with their brand new generic human protagonist. -sigh-
I'm bored. What was I talking about? Hm . . .
-walks off, still laughing like Kefka and content with the "Strangest Person I've Ever Met' title people always seem to give her-
Aside from that, I feel like there's so much potential to explore there with the different races. Particularly the animosity between Elves and Humans. Perhaps this is my own life experience talking, but as a multi-racial person who's faced more than her fair share of racism, I can appreciate the position of the Elves, the Dalish most of all. In truth, I can identify with the Elves of the Dragon Age world far more than I can with the humans. To be blunt, I really, truly, dislike the humans of that world so far and feel absolutely NO desire to play as one.
The lack of choices when it comes to race may not be a big deal for some of you, but it's almost a deal breaker for me. I'm sick of humans. And not just in Dragon Age, but in RPGs in general. In Final Fantasy the hero is almost (and yes I said ALMOST, I remember Zidane and Terra, you know) always human, in the Tales games you're a human. Human here, human there, human everywhere. I see humans every day in real life, give me a little respite from them please. Why do you think the notion of aliens is so appealing to so many for goodness' sake?
I mean, Zelda is highly popular and successful and, GASP!, the hero is not a human! OMG, it's the end of the world as we know it! -faints-
Star Ocean's Ratix (or Roddick, whatever you prefer) wasn't human, was he? The original Star Ocean was a wonderful game and a welcome break from all the human infested RPG, Shooter, Strategy, and Adventure games out there.
Don't get me wrong, I love guys like Zack Fair, Sephiroth (science experiment, but still human born, just kind of an altered human. And I. Couldn't. Play. As. Him!. -rages against the unfairness of it all-), Kefka (-cackles the maniacal laughter of Kefka-), Cecil, Fei Fong Wong, Ryudo the Geohound, Shion Uzuki, Yuri Hyuga, Yuri Lowell, Justin (Grandia), et cetera, et cetera, blah, blah, but honestly, enough with the humans. Can you not see why I'm getting sick of them? There's Just. So. Many!
A game can be successful without human protagonists being shoved down our throats at every turn. In a world like Dragon Age, where once upon a time in a game far, far away, we were able not only to choose how our characters began, but also what race they would be, it's hard to go back to yet another generic human hero you see in almost every game out there. Seriously, I think I might just pass out from the monotony of it all. I can feel it, my eyes are drifting closed, everything is getting hazy!
From the sounds of it they're not even going to do anything really special or inspiring with their brand new generic human protagonist. -sigh-
I'm bored. What was I talking about? Hm . . .
-walks off, still laughing like Kefka and content with the "Strangest Person I've Ever Met' title people always seem to give her-
This times a million! I don't really care for Mass Effect, but loved Dragon Age Origins. Both of these games had a very different identity, and like you said, variety is a good thing. Now the line between Dragon age and Mass Effect is blurring more and more. KEEP MASS EFFECT OUT OF MY DRAGON AGE! It's no secret that people loved Dragon Age Origins despite the vast difference between it and Mass Effect.Nihlus2 said:
Rough sales numbers of both games on both consoles (PC not included):
Dragon Age Origins: 3.85 million (an amazing number for a new IP)
Dragon Age II: 1.58 million
How is catering to a "broader audience" working out for you, EA? Let Dragon Age be Dragon Age and let Bioware be Bioware.
I don't trust Bioware all that much anymore. I trust it'll be fun, but I don't trust it to be Bioware quality. Especially with Muzyka and Zeschuk gone. It's basically EA's ***** now.