Dragon Age DLC Makes a Million

[Danpascooch]

BI O WARE! BI O WARE!

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I WILL work there someday, so help me god

 

[mayney93]

i am thinking of gettting this game is it good? from the reviews i hear that its either amazing or shite depending on what u like genre wise

 

[Amnestic]

is it good?

Yes. That is all.

I picked up my copy of DA:O yesterday, not bought Warden's Keep yet because...well, I haven't had much cause to really. I'll pick it up when I feel the need to. It's not as if I don't have plenty of hours to go along with the main game plus Stone Prisoner as it is already.

 

[CanadianWolverine]

Our very own Virgil as an excellent and informative post about how software development actually works [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.154083#3719305] that I strongly suggest you read. It isn't so simple as "let's throw extra stuff into the game."

For those unwilling to click the link and read the post in all its glory, here ya go:

To me, the entire Warden's Keep (and Stone Prisoner, but at least that one's free) quest feel like they've just been ripped from the game just to create some DLC.

If you release DLC within a month of a game's release--much less on day one--then you have spent at least a portion of that game's development cycle on said DLC, meaning that you could have implemented into the game, meaning that by charging us additional money for it you are ripping us off.

Wait, this was released on the same day as the game. Uh, so why wasn't it included in the game?

I am always struck by exactly how ignorant many gamers are of how game or software development actually works. Let me try to explain this for you all:

First, any studio-developed game has a set time limit and budget for development. This should be common sense. All of the time that artists, writers, voice actors, programmers, and QA testers spend working on content is time that they are paid for.

Because of this, there is a set amount of content that can be included in a retail game (which pretty much has a fixed price). This is typically decided early on, and as the game development progresses things are added and removed depending on the difficulties the developer encounters. At each point, a decision is made as to whether X feature is important enough to increase the time/cost of the game development - if it's not, it can get cut from the game. Many of these features might be very cool, and developers can be sad to see them cut, but this happens with every game.

At some point in the development process, the designers have to stop adding new features and content. At this point, the programmers and QA become very busy testing, optimizing, and porting content. In the past, this is the stage where most of the writers, designers, and artists either get fired or get moved to another game.

Instead of firing the content creators, many newer games are deciding to instead have them make more content, to be tested and released separately from the game as DLC. This does not mean that the time that is used to create this is free, or that it is a part of the retail game. In some cases, the designers go back to stuff that was cut from the original game and rework it and fix the problems, because they really didn't want to see it removed in the first place.

While this is happening, the final "gold" version of the game is created. This is the version that first needs to pass the console manufacturers' certifications, and then need to be sent to manufacturing. This can take several weeks. During this time, the programmers and QA can test the DLC content that the rest of the team had been working on. Because they're working off the final version of the game now, and this is just extra content, this process goes a lot faster. It is easily possible that digital content can be tested and ready to be released before the retail versions of the game are even done being manufactured.

But all this time isn't 'free' - the assumption that the people working on this content would otherwise be being paid to add things to the retail game is just stupid. That game development time and budget has already been spent - they would either be working on something else entirely, or looking for a new job.

To create this new stuff, it has to be paid for somehow. For The Stone Prisoner, it's being paid for to see if it helps make up for used game sales - a particular problem for a mostly-linear story-based RPG. The Warden's Keep content, on the other hand, is a marketing promotion to sell the more expensive digital collector's edition (sans cloth map). If you aren't 'paying' for the content in one of those two ways, then you should expect to pay for it directly.

Since Funk used this as his informed response, I will address this post by highlighting a few parts and then saying this - I full on agree with Virgil's post, I get it, I really do.

It still doesn't make the question go away for the chosen platform I game with, PC. All my content these days is effectively DLC thanks in part to the retail experience being such a crappy experience; most places I walk into these days give so little premium shelf space to PC gaming that it is easy to miss in the ocean of console retail space.

And if I follow the time table as set out by Virgil's post, then why are PC gamers not getting the game in the form of DLC several weeks before the console gamers get delivered to their retail space? Then if several weeks later, when the game does get released retail, wham bam, here is some new DLC PC gamers! If the time table was that, I would be praising the content providers, not wondering why it wasn't in the original game. Would it really hurt them to have games be slightly more exclusive to the PC simply because it is easier to deliver content and support to the PC platform? Not unless it was a crappy game by gamers' estimates, hurting their word of mouth reviews.

These developers and publishers are just not supporting the PC platform and in Day One DLC it shows thanks to being informed of the various processes it is possible to develop the software. There are whole sections of console red tape that the PC platform jumps past leaps and bounds and they are just not utilizing it.

So I ask again with some clarification: Why wasn't this PC DLC content included in the original game if it can be delivered the same day as the original "gold" game framework itself?

 

[mechanixis]

And if they'd included all that content on the disk and raised the retail price of the game accordingly, the same players would have cried havoc.

But I guess I'm just sensitized to game prices since I moved to Canada, where they slap another $10 onto the pricetag just for shits and giggles. It's our little taste of Australia!
Plus I still remember the days when a console game was never more than $50, so ever since it's gone above that it's felt like an unfairness.

 

[CanadianWolverine]

So I ask again with some clarification: Why wasn't this PC DLC content included in the original game if it can be delivered the same day as the original "gold" game framework itself?

Maybe you should forward that opinion to Bioware and they can email it to 2 years ago. And then they can make sure that the guy who decided to cry about a business decision in the distribution phase has plenty of say in their entire development process. Or perhaps you failed to notice that they are selling an extra adventure because they had to devote extra capital to creating it. Maybe we can just do it your way and stick it in the "gold" game framework and tack the cost onto the release price of the game. I mean it's not like that extra $10 is gonna drive people away.

I'm glad you're horse allows you to trot about so highly, expecting to get something for nothing. May I suggest you dismount it, though. Nosebleeds tend to occur at that elevation.

How exactly does this not descend into a flame war? High horse? Nose bleeds? How else can I put this with out calling for a plague on both your houses?

Not once did I mention any problems with paying for the content, unless you are suggesting that by somehow including it in the initial final product that is asking for something for free when you just shelled out for it ... what?!? Is that honestly how you see the question?

And yes, I am totally calling out Bioware, EA, Activision, Infinity Ward, or whoever else conducts any business practices that I do not see favorable as a possible customer. Letting a salesperson know why you are not seeing their product in a favorable light should hardly be a reason for you to level such bullshit against a well meaning question of a business practice. I am not proposing any significant change to their development cycle, just asking that if a product is tested and ready for release on PC but has to wait for approval by the consoles, why is that not seen as under-utilization of the strengths of the PC platform?

In conclusion to your reply, I would be more than willing to get off my high horse when you get out from under your bridge.

 

[CanadianWolverine]

Is anyone actually forcing you to buy the DLC?

Sure, this person with a balaclava and 9mm handgun pressed against my head. Oddly enough, he made no mention of the Dragon Age game itself or any other desired purchases with the contents of my wallet. Any other silly questions that actually don't address even remotely my concerns with Day One DLC for a PC game? No?

I see this as straight up Digital Delivery Timing versus Retail Delivery Timing.

Here's a few relevant questions for you and others, does console DLC have to pass the console manufacturers' certifications? If a PC game could arrive on Impulse or Steam "shelves" sooner than on consoles retail shelves, would you welcome that or get your nerd rage on?

 

[Johnnyallstar]

The DLC doesn't go through the same system that the rest of the game did. The last month or two of a game's pre-Gold life is mostly debugging and testing. All the programmers, artists, and other employees not essential to the debugging/testing phase are free to do whatever with their time. Much of the DLC was part of the original game, but had to be cut because the completion time would have been too long before debugging/testing started, because they have to remain on a schedule.

Bioware, and Gearbox have had their teams working on DLC during said times, rather than having them go on vacation, which is why the DLC was/is able to come out so soon after the game's release, having partly done content from the game cut, so their DLC was already well worked on. DLC, as of yet, doesn't go through a 60 day debug term.

So, I'm not upset about how sudden the DLC is.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

I only bought the DLC dealing with the exile of the Wardens from Ferelden, didn't really care about the companion you could get with the other DLC.

Spoiler

You lose him if you don't destroy the Anvil of the Void anyways

 

[Virgil]

Why wasn't this PC DLC content included in the original game if it can be delivered the same day as the original "gold" game framework itself?

If you are asking why there isn't a digital PC release as soon as the game is gold, the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of game sales are console games through retail channels. No game developer or publisher is going to do anything in the near future that would antagonize either retail outlets or console manufacturers, and thereby jeopardize their relationships with them. A lot of time these relationships are how they get better placement in stores, and free or reduced cost promotions (for example, all those commercials for console games that end with the Xbox logo/video - they're partially paid for by Microsoft). Releasing a highly anticipated title digitally on the PC in advance of either the retail or console release is a good way to piss off both, and the developer gets nearly no advantage for doing so except a few early sales on the least-successful platform.

It's only recently that we've started to see digital PC releases on the same day as the retail versions at all - in many ways we can thank Valve for pushing that with their own games. It will be years before we see digital release numbers start to overtake retail though, and first-day digital releases on consoles, and that's what it'll likely take before they get any preference.

If you're asking why the DLC wasn't included with the digital PC release, I pretty much covered that in the post you quoted. Just because it's a digital release doesn't mean it's not under the same development cost/time restrictions as the other versions.

 

[Virgil]

I only bought the DLC dealing with the exile of the Wardens from Ferelden, didn't really care about the companion you could get with the other DLC.

If you bought the game new, you should have had a code to get that one for free - every game includes it. I would think it's a bit early for people to be getting used copies, though I guess it's possible.

The Warden's Keep is by far the better DLC though - I thought it was a lot of fun to play through, and both the story and rewards were very good. Shale is absolutely hilarious though - he's the Dragon Age version of HK-47, and is pretty much just as bitter, caustic, and enthusiastically violent towards humans.

 

[CanadianWolverine]

Why wasn't this PC DLC content included in the original game if it can be delivered the same day as the original "gold" game framework itself?

If you are asking why there isn't a digital PC release as soon as the game is gold, the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of game sales are console games through retail channels. No game developer or publisher is going to do anything in the near future that would antagonize either retail outlets or console manufacturers, and thereby jeopardize their relationships with them. A lot of time these relationships are how they get better placement in stores, and free or reduced cost promotions (for example, all those commercials for console games that end with the Xbox logo/video - they're partially paid for by Microsoft). Releasing a highly anticipated title digitally on the PC in advance of either the retail or console release is a good way to piss off both, and the developer gets nearly no advantage for doing so except a few early sales on the least-successful platform.

It's only recently that we've started to see digital PC releases on the same day as the retail versions at all - in many ways we can thank Valve for pushing that with their own games. It will be years before we see digital release numbers start to overtake retail though, and first-day digital releases on consoles, and that's what it'll likely take before they get any preference.

If you're asking why the DLC wasn't included with the digital PC release, I pretty much covered that in the post you quoted. Just because it's a digital release doesn't mean it's not under the same development cost/time restrictions as the other versions.

Thank you, what I was asking about was addressed in your first two paragraphs and that is perfectly reasonable from their business point of view, its just too bad it doesn't jive with me because I'm not as big into consoles as I am the PC platform, and I eagerly await years to pass to were we are at that point of acceptance in digital content distribution - by then the gap will have effectively closed somewhat between the differences in console and PC, if we even call it that by then (Starts singing: "In the year 3000!").

Perhaps that is part of why I like Indy PC titles, they don't seem as beholden to consoles' archaic retail shelf space, brick and mortar model. *shrug*

Interesting enough, I don't think I would have even bothered posting had I read this Escapist news article and comments beforehand, color me more informed, thanks again Virgil: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.154083

 

[RanD00M]

Well it a for a Bioware game.Anything from Bioware is great and usually sell in high numbers.

 

[Nurb]

dammit, this means more publishers are going to remove content for more releases and make more day-one DLC! do you kids remember not even 10 years ago when DLC was free and expansion packs were 30 bucks? now the consolers who use their parents credit card to be nickled and dimed for every item pack and 2 multiplayer levels made DLC a dangerous addictive drug for the companies to keep abusing, and worse, like MS, charge full price for a halo 3 expansion (ODST).

A little history on the "stone prisoner" quest:

Shale's character (and associated quests) was originally intended to be a joinable NPC in the shipped game, Shale was cut by developers who wanted to concentrate on further polishing the game prior to release in 2008. When the game release date was pushed back to Q4 2009, developers spent time re-integrating Shale back into the game. Although still not included in the shipped version of the game. This means the publisher (EA) made the developers remove the content INTENDED TO BE IN THE RELEASE VERSION after the release date was pushed pack and spent time putting him back in, so they could make money off of day-one DLC if anyone buys it used down the line. Warden's keep should have been in the game for sake of storage and story, instead we get NPCs pitching it in game.

OH excuse me, EA, I assumed paying full price ment the game itself was 'premium content'. I didn't pay for horse armor in Oblivion and I'm not paying extra for content removed from the release. Bless the pirates, and damn the consumers for encouraging companies to nickle and dime us further after paying full price for a game.

Raaaaage!

 

[Icehearted]

DAMN.

All these horrible trends like lack of Dedicated Servers, no LAN and Day one DLC keep making more fucking money!

Indeed, but I imagine that while game makers that withhold content (lookin at you, Capcom) for things like DLC will find that success stories like this are few and far between.

 

[Amnestic]

I only bought the DLC dealing with the exile of the Wardens from Ferelden, didn't really care about the companion you could get with the other DLC.

If you bought the game new, you should have had a code to get that one for free - every game includes it. I would think it's a bit early for people to be getting used copies, though I guess it's possible.

I saw a Pre-owned copy of DA:O for the 360 on the shelves of my local games retailer when I bought my PC version yesterday, next to a pre-owned copy of MW2 for the 360.

A little history on the "stone prisoner" quest:

Shale's character (and associated quests) was originally intended to be a joinable NPC in the shipped game, Shale was cut by developers who wanted to concentrate on further polishing the game prior to release in 2008. When the game release date was pushed back to Q4 2009, developers spent time re-integrating Shale back into the game. Although still not included in the shipped version of the game. This means the publisher (EA) made the developers remove the content INTENDED TO BE IN THE RELEASE VERSION after the release date was pushed pack and spent time putting him back in, so they could make money off of day-one DLC.

Wait, what?

Stone Prisoner is the free DLC which every game comes with. They're not making any money off SP to my knowledge.