Staal said:
For you to say this as a response, you must not properly understand the word. Perhaps you are the kind of fool who thinks noting bigotry is bigotry? Either way, you are vastly incorrect and I would say you know this and simply want to sing the word around in an empty attempt to make some point.
Wanting a romance option of your own race is completely natural.
So? That doesn't address the point.
You don't seem to have a problem that black people would require one of their race, in fact you seem support it.
I have said nothing to that effect, this is a red herring and a strawman.
If anyone is the racist, it is you.
This seems to be just like your failed use of the word "bigot" against me. Fort somebody who takes such, almost personal, offence to such words you don't seem to know how to use them correctly. I think that explains a lot.
People are entirely justified to not like the game
But to go beyond that and say it is wrong of the game? To demand that they get what they want? That is not ok, and that is what is the issue here, as you have been told many times.
But I doubt you troll their website going "racist, racist, bigot".
"their website" What website belonging to who?
And you're saying that I am simply trolling you here?
I have not called you a bigot a racist or a troll, you have called me all these things in a blatant attempt to offend me. You sir, are making an ass of yourself.
To be honest a lot of the people I saw posting back in 2009/2010 were expressing themselves just fine. I.e. I would like a white human female because that is my demographic, which also happens to be the majority.
That isn't what I saw. I saw very few people at all complaining that they didn't get their fetish met. But among those that did, many were bigoted.
How does that word apply to me?
Honestly, are you just throwing words I've used at me in the hope you'll use them correctly? Because you are not doing so.
climb into the debate of course and fling the term bigot around.
Only when the term can be applied. And even then I like to avoid it.
And you don't just use it for the tiny minority that don't want any mention of bi-sexuality in the game,
THose are not the only people who can be bigots. That you think they are is strange.
you use it to paint anyone that dares complain about anything.
This is a blatant lie (or prehaps you simply didn't read all I wrote), I have made clear people complaining about other topics are most definitely not bigots because of it.
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Instead of admitting that yes the bi-option should've been done better
Thats not what the complaint was about, sothat would have been a strange reply.
which as I have clearly proven it was not.
You have utterly failed to do so, you have made numerous mentions of other different arguments many of which I agree are not bigoted, but this is in no way the same.
Unless of course you ready to admit that gay people asking for a gay option is also bigotry.
Thats not even the same situation.
See if there's no gay option at all, they have nobody to romance at all no matter tastes. But straight or gay, options are present here and thus such a consideration is no longer relevant as the issue is resolved. The situations are in some ways similar, but they are functionally different for the purposes of this conversation. Its not as if there was nobody for a straight person to romance, if there was nobody then perhaps this line of argument should be followed. But as it stands this is simply another indication you do not fully understand the topics at hand.
I see you still haven't responded to that.
So that what your mangled question at the end of your post was about. Well I didn't answer it then because you had phrased it in such a way I couldn't understand.
As you can see, now that you have properly expressed yourself, the question is answered.
I maintain almost no one would have noticed or said anything if BioWare had done it properly without smearing it into every nook and cranny.
If you are attempting to say that they did such with bisexuality, then you are clearly wrong. As already noted, for two romance options you would never even know they were bi without repeat playthroughs. If you cannot even tell the bi characters are bi, then that's hardly putting it everywhere.
Your paranoia is interesting however.
But what pray tell would you have done better? You have not said what Bioware has done wrong, other than have the characters be bi at all. So what is the issue you would correct?
Which is what makes me suspect in hindsight that they do have an agenda they are pushing.
You previously said they are not pushing one in their games, now you say they are.
Which is it?
Hmm... we do know this? Because they said so? Right.
Because we can read their design plans and thoughts, how they go look at writing.
But if you do not trust anything they say at all, then your entire argument falls into itself as nothing they say can be viewed to have any meaning, including the things you rest your argument on.
For gods sake I asked how does it feel that way. Is there anything to suggest that this feeling is accurate?
No offence but your "feelings" alone mean jack shit, and a circular argument certainly isn't one you should use.
You previously said you were not.
Again this is not an argument, this is simply you repeating your opinion, with nothing to support it. And with nothing to support it, I can discard it with nothing.
This is how a discussion works.
Many people in the subsequent months expressed their disappointment in a much better way.
I have seen that and the way you describe them going is not what I viewed. There were still instances of demands and cries the game was worng for not scraching their sexual ich, and as already noted, that's not valid.
You are denying someone their right to identify with their own race
No I am not, for gods sake stop making stuff up about me.
Also, I find it very telling you think your race is "the core of your identity".
Someone that wants a white romance
Why do you persist in ignoring important details, it is not a simple want here, but also the demand and the cry that the game is wrong for not having it.
Besides all this bitching when there was a white person to romance in the bloody game. Not that physical appearance is the same as fucking gender. How you confuse the two I will never know.
Should I list the dozens, if not hundreds, of blogs and articles about women/blacks/gays etc complaining that they are not catered too? I don't think I will but we both now they are all over.
And utterly irrelevant. having a possible option and catering to your exact tastes is not the same thing, again, a very common mistake from you.
No, you have already indicated that anyone that is white and prefers a white romance option is racist.
No I have not, read every word I use next time.
Demand/request/complain is all semantics.
No it is not, there is a very clear and important differeance between saying you would like it if X happened, and demanding that others give you X.
This is so blindingly obvious I do not know how you wouldn't notice.
It appeared that way to me.
But since that is not how it is that appearance was not true. And this means nothing. This is why being able to have something other that feelings is important.
Many, many people shares this opinion.
This is yet another logical fallacy, one you have used many times but not so blatantly as now. Appeal to popularity.
How can the character be both straight and bi? You are either one or the other.
That doesn't follow as a response.
BioWare can have bi-characters but it makes no sense for them all to be bi.
They are not so no problem.
A minor issue but still it was a legitimate complaint and has nothing to do with bigotry.
It wasn't the complaint and isn't true if it was. So you are incorrect.
Since you cast the first stone with statements that white people are not allowed to prefer a white romance option or else they are racist the hypocrite tag is firmly on your forehead.
Except I never said that.
So quick to judge me when you know so little. And I'd said nothing to you.
It is exactly the same argument. How does it differ?
Because they are not demanding that more black people be put in, and they are also talking in general terms, not about their sexual tastes.
By your logic gay people are bigots for requesting a gay option in a game.
DA2 has straight options, thats the thing about bi characters they serve as both straight romance options and homosexual ones. You're not seriously trying to argue that it doesn't have anyone for a straight male to romance and this is the thrust of the argument are you? Because thats the only way half of what you say makes any sense, and its wrong.
No wonder you don't understand the words I use, you hardly seem to understand yourself.
EDIT:
Starke said:
I readily recognise this impact you speak of. However to have something in a work and for this impact to have some noticeable effect is not the same as anything being forced on anyone.
And when I asked that question my mind was framed in terms of the games, which Staal says he isn't talking about. He has since somewhat contradicted himself on that so I'm not longer sure even he knows what he meant.