Dragon Age Writer Calls BioWare Forums "Toxic"

[votemarvel]

"We fight or we die! That's the plan!"

I thought that line really suited the trailer for the game but when you see it in context in the scene it was written for, then it does raise the question of "that's the best they could come up with?"

I do visit the Bioware forum and it is possible to have a good discussion going. The big problem I see though is that the people who dislike something generally give reasons as to why, the people who like that something just say "I like it." They don't have to say anything more than that of course but it does make everything seem one sided.

Also I think a big part of the 'toxicity' of the forum also comes from Bioware's silence on things and when they do reply it is often in a dismissive or sarcastic manner. I don't think anyone would respond well to being spoken to in that way for any length of time.

In the end though both sides need to take a step back, re-read what they are about to post, and think on if it is really the best way to put across what they are wanting to say.

 

[Imbechile]

Oh dear.

Now this is interesting....

Will the mods give a low content post warning to a staff member?

On topic: You reap what you sow Gaider.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.274827-David-Gaider-says-Bioware-decides-what-dead-means-in-Dragon-Age-2?page=1 .......plus the whole "plugging your ears and going LALALALALA while someone criticizes your game" business bioware have been doing these past years.

 

[Kellen Touey]

No offence to the writer personally, but I can't remember the last time a Bioware game had a plot that felt like it had thought put into it. People have a right to complain about a sub-par product.

 

[weirdee]

ofc, shepard has always been the master of nonsequitur responses to your choices so i haven't really been fazed by the writing

the most fascinating thing about this is how people became so attached in the first place

 

[Imbechile]

Here is a quality post about fan feedback:
http://twofoldsilence.diogenes-lamp.info/2011/01/actually-some-developers-should-read.html

 

[medv4380]

Perhaps there is also something to be said about whether the games BioWare makes still satisfy our core fans.

They could, but they have to have learned from their mistakes. To me, Dragon Age 2 had a major problem with reusing maps. You'd enter a cave and find it's the same exact cave you just visited but with different doors blocked.

I can't say much about my opinion about the ME3 blowup. I bought ME2 and 3 because of the blowup about the ending of 3. If their was no outrage I wouldn't have even bothered with the series.

If they can stick with a coherent story and decent gameplay then DA3 should do fine. If they make it look like the rushed it, or where lazy then it'll be a rough ride.

 

[Saviordd1]

I'm not surprised the BioWare forums have become nothing more than a wretched hive of scum and villiany. To me the problem isn't really BioWare but it's EA. A lot of the problems that Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3 had I'm certain were the product of the rushed development needed in order to meet the strict deadlines publishers like EA mandate. There's a reason people hate on EA so much. They buy up all these talented dev studios only to bleed them dry until nothing is left but a named husk that they slap onto the box of their next product.

I don't blame you David, I blame EA. They took what talent and love BioWare had and killed it.

As I said, the blame is on both of 'em, just look at here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.274827-David-Gaider-says-Bioware-decides-what-dead-means-in-Dragon-Age-2?page=1] for how David Gaider treated the folks of the forums.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong but he has a point
He puts it in a douchey way but its there.

The idea that Leliana didn't die in the chamber because she was protected by the maker or shes simply good at faking makes sense, or that it leads into a later story.

But again, he didn't need to be a douche.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

According to veteran developer, David Gaider, the studio's forums have turned into such an unpleasant whine-festival that he's been forced to flee.

I assume that's even by Internet standards because Internet forums by their very nature are unpleasant whine festivals.

 

[Erttheking]

Well pal, maybe they wouldn't be so bad if you didn't piss them off so much. Stop calling people entitled when they don't lap up every last piece of shit you put out.

And to everyone else, exactly why are you telling everyone to shut up and get over the endings? I'm pretty sure that you told people to get over it when DA2 came out. It's very clear that Bioware doesn't learn from its mistakes if you just let them go, so frankly I see no reason to not to constantly be on their ass to make sure that they don't completely phone in ME4. Because if they can pull their heads out of their asses, I might, MIGHT but it. Quit calling people whiny and annoying just because they have legitimate complaints, you don't see me telling people to stop being whiny when they have complaints about Ubisoft's DRM, or how Call of Duty and Battlefield are Spunkgarggleweewee, or how stupid Nintendo's current consoles are or how stunted their franchises, are. People complain about that all the freaking time, and they never get any flak for that, but for some damn reason, people who complain about ME3 and the ending need to "get over it". Fuck that.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

Oh dear.

My theory is that David Gaider has an ultra secret crush on one of the Bioware public relations staffers, and he stirs the pot like this whenever upper management starts looking like it might let a few of them go.

 

[Beautiful End]

Well...all I can say is...welcome to the internet, where people are mean, they say random shit and are incredibly rude and dumb because they know they're safe from any harm.

Yeah, the Bioware forums are pretty bad right now and a lot of that could come from the fact that the quality of their games has decayed, according to some. But, again, it's the internet. The trolls and idiots tend to stick around longer than the nice guys, simply because the nice guys know better than that. :l

Also, is this the guy responsible for writing Dragon Age: Origins? Because if so, Glob bless his soul; this man is my hero. For many different reasons. If he's not...then never mind.

Oh dear.
-snip-

Now this is interesting....

Will the mods give a low content post warning to a staff member?

My exact thoughts. Grey, you're cool but...you can't tell me that's not low content.

 

[Beautiful End]

Double post. :/

 

[Epona]

I can't say I blame him. Every since the middle of the year, it seems like someone's bitching about the ME3 ending around every damn corner. I mean, yeah, the ending sucked, sure, but it's been fucking months and people are still banging on about it.

So, yeah, I would avoid those forums too.

I see, so it's ok for them to continue selling the game months or years after release but there should be no criticism after a certain period?

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

I feel a little guilty after reading this. Though I've never taken part in mud-flinging and the apparent vileness spewed by the community, I've not had much nice to say (or think) of BioWare post-EA. The trouble is that I was one of the aliented fans.

A fan of anything BioWare did...the name alone was enough for me to buy anything they made. Every thing they produced, on every platform since before the millenium. Then they sold themselves to EA, who (and I feel little guilt in saying this) have ruined almost every good franchise and studio they've bought. Westwood, Pandemic and BioWare among them. They employ every dirty tactic, from nickel-and-diming DLC, Day 1 DLC, on-disc DLC, online passes, etc. But the worst thing EA does, and this is why BioWare were so affected, is that they only want to target "mass-market" audiences.

BioWare were previously the undisputed masters of the RPG. As I grew, so did BioWare and the games they made. They got better, more sophisticated, mature and deeper storytelling. The one company I could rely on to make only polished gems of games (individual foibles excepted). BioWare were happy to make the best game they could to cater to the people who wanted to play those games. But EA put the brakes on that and instead turned Mass Effect from an intelligent sci-fi RPG into CoD in space. They took the multi-threaded Dragon Age, a sprawling tale and turned it into a linear copy-pasted action game with so little actual RPG. It was the turnabout, the sudden brakes on BioWare's direction to bring them screeching ack to the level of 14 year old american console kids who want to shoot shit.

But I don't "hate" BioWare. I despise EA for turning video games into "products", removing their games from Steam, turning survival horror games like Dead Space into TPSs, dumbing down everything possible and stripping BioWare from it's position as King of RPGs to maker of mediocre shooters. My previous devotion and "fanboyism" for BioWare may have been violently extinguished, but I still have a some fondness for them. I will see what they're up to and at least consider what they produce. But I won't buy any Origin exclusives so...

 

[Loethlin]

Bah. There's a reason this hive is called Bioware Sociopathic Network.
This guy is not wrong for criticising it.
It's nauseating, being compared to the regular denizens of that site, just because I like several of BW games.

 

[Erttheking]

Bah. There's a reason this hive is called Bioware Sociopathic Network.
This guy is not wrong for criticising it.

But they're wrong for criticizing him?

 

[Loethlin]

But they're wrong for criticizing him?

Noone likes to be criticized.
As much as I agree with the guy, I get why they're even more frenzied than usually.

 

[Little Gray]

I see, so it's ok for them to continue selling the game months or years after release but there should be no criticism after a certain period?

There is nothing wrong with criticizing a game you just played regardless of when it came out but criticizing a game for eight months straight just makes you look like you have mental problems.

I
BioWare were previously the undisputed masters of the RPG. As I grew, so did BioWare and the games they made. They got better, more sophisticated, mature and deeper storytelling.

It doesnt sound like you have played very many Bioware games. The storytelling in their games had been getting shallower and less mature for the last twelve years or so.

 

[bigfatcarp93]

I can't say I blame him. Every since the middle of the year, it seems like someone's bitching about the ME3 ending around every damn corner. I mean, yeah, the ending sucked, sure, but it's been fucking months and people are still banging on about it.

So, yeah, I would avoid those forums too.

I see, so it's ok for them to continue selling the game months or years after release but there should be no criticism after a certain period?

Wow, that is SO not what I said.

My point is that nobody has shut up about the fucking ending since the game came out, so at the end of the day: YES. WE GET IT, IT WAS BAD. That's not "criticism" anymore, it's puking up a point that everyone has already pointed out countless times.

And next time you decide to try to put words in someone's mouth like that, refrain from doing so.

 

[The Hungry Samurai]

This is how the Internet works.
1. Like minded people get a chance to communicate with people who created something they enjoy.
2. Seeing the positive exchange between creators and fans attracts massive amounts of like minded people.
3. As the amount of Like minded increase people lose a sense of perspective, little issues become catastrophes and the progress made in the earlier steps fosters entitlement.
4. Extremists begin to surface. Unable to keep up with the demands of the fans, or unwilling to put up with the extremists abuse, the creators abandon the exchange of ideas.
5. Rational fans abandon the exchange, since progress is impossible without the ear of the creators.
6. Extremists further lose perspective without anyone to curb their demands, as well as their temper with no one hearing them.
7. Extremists get tired of screaming in empty rooms, lolcats are posted.
8. Creators make something new, go back to stage 6.

This is why we can't have nice things.