Dragon Age Writer Calls BioWare Forums "Toxic"

[JediMB]

Well, that's something from his tumblr that I didn't expect to be made into news. He's written a lot of much more interesting posts regarding writing, working with voice actors, etc., and I really think those deserve some attention. Oh, sensationalism!

And despite claims of avoiding the forums, Gaider's a lot more active and forthcoming there than any of the developers are on the SWTOR forums. Funny that.

Lastly, personally I've barely posted there since the ME3 ending fallout, mostly because the only thing BioWare I'm the least enthusiastic about is Dragon Age 3... and there's just not enough information going around for there to be any point in posting and speculating about that.

 

[bigfatcarp93]

I can't say I blame him. Every since the middle of the year, it seems like someone's bitching about the ME3 ending around every damn corner. I mean, yeah, the ending sucked, sure, but it's been fucking months and people are still banging on about it.

So, yeah, I would avoid those forums too.

I see, so it's ok for them to continue selling the game months or years after release but there should be no criticism after a certain period?

Wow, that is SO not what I said.

My point is that nobody has shut up about the fucking ending since the game came out, so at the end of the day: YES. WE GET IT, IT WAS BAD. That's not "criticism" anymore, it's puking up a point that everyone has already pointed out countless times.

And next time you decide to try to put words in someone's mouth like that, refrain from doing so.

That is exactly what you said. "Waaah people are still criticizing ME3 and they shouldn't be allowed to!"

Since when do YOU get to decide what is and isn't criticism? You know what's worse than critics? People whining about the critics.

Yeah, you keep intentionally misconstruing everything I say, and misenterpreting something which basically amounts to "I'm sick of hearing it" as "People should stop saying it."

So, I think I'm done having this conversation.

 

[lacktheknack]

Well, the Tali's Sweat thread did reveal multiple toxins that Tali would secrete, so I guess that's one proof.

 

[Terminal Blue]

To be honest.. yeah.. that's exactly the word I would use.

Criticising a game is fine. In fact, observe:

"Dragon Age: Origins was a clunky, plodding beast with awful game balance."

"Dragon Age 2 was a disappointing rush job."

"The Mass Effect series are all sub-par shooters with tacked on role-playing elements."

"Mass Effect 3 was let down by a disappointing ending".

See. No thunderbolts from heaven.

Where it ceases to become fine is when you continue to hang around on the official message forum of a game developer endlessly parading your hate for everything they've released in the last decade and wishing actual harm upon the people who work there while still bleating about how you're a "twoo fan" and have somehow been abandoned and betrayed.

It's not fine when you treat a game dev as if you're in an abusive relationship with them. It's creepy.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

I can relate to that. I stopped going to the Religion/Political forum here because of those same reasons. Just couldn't take it anymore.

Still, it must be hard to watch fans who adored you suddenly turn on you and constantly rip you down, no matter how hard you try. Still, this guy's part of the Dragon Age crew, and in my opinion that means that he listens to fans and tries to correct mistakes. Looking at the two DLCs for Dragon Age is proof enough for me. I will still be buying Dragon Age III for sure, but my faith in BioWare has been shaken slightly.
Still, this man seems reasonable at least. He's at least admitting that there may be a problem with the way BioWare's been doing things lately, and at the same time he's calling out the insane amount of backlash that has been hitting BioWare nonstop for months now. I wonder what it would take to make the fans stop? Would an apology be enough? "We're sorry. We admit that we screwed up the ending to one of your favorite series. We tried to fix it as best we could, but it was already too late. Please forgive us."
Would fans let it go if they came out with another ending? A 'better' one? We may never know.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

I
BioWare were previously the undisputed masters of the RPG. As I grew, so did BioWare and the games they made. They got better, more sophisticated, mature and deeper storytelling.

It doesnt sound like you have played very many Bioware games. The storytelling in their games had been getting shallower and less mature for the last twelve years or so.

Well regardless of how it sounds, I've played every one, multiple times and on multiple platforms (where possible) over the years. KotOR and Jade Empire were story-telling masterpieces. NWN SP campaign was probably the weakest and most underwhelming. But even ME1 and DAO were deep, rich and interesting, unlike 90% of what've had since from them and any other developer.

 

[Full]

I have to advise to mostly avoid the story boards. The Off-Topic and Multiplayer forums there are fun, though. Sometimes.

Just tread in with warning.

 

[grey_space]

Since when do YOU get to decide what is and isn't criticism? You know what's worse than critics? People whining about the critics.

or possibly people whining about the people whining about the critics?

Or even the likes of me, who are whining about the people whining about the people who are whining about the critics.


Personally, I stopped even reading the Bioware forums after the ME3 ending. Way too much vitriol and emotion there and that was months ago.

And I didn't like the ending.

 

[Epona]

Since when do YOU get to decide what is and isn't criticism? You know what's worse than critics? People whining about the critics.

or possibly people whining about the people whining about the critics?

Or even the likes of me, who are whining about the people whining about the people who are whining about the critics.


Personally, I stopped even reading the Bioware forums after the ME3 ending. Way too much vitriol and emotion there and that was months ago.

And I didn't like the ending.

Well, those whining about the critics tend to act like they are the gatekeepers of valid criticism. Some fair minded person has to come along and inform them that they aren't the judge of such matters.

 

[grey_space]

[

Well, those whining about the critics tend to act like they are the gatekeepers of valid criticism. Some fair minded person has to come along and inform them that they aren't the judge of such matters.

No they certainly are not. I would agree most wholeheartedly with you there.

However, they are just as entitled to their opinions on the fan rage against Bioware as the fans who are still enraged with Bioware are of theirs.

Particularly since it's almost impossible to have a reasonable discussion/thread about anything in the Bioware universes without one or more of these detractors popping in with some kind of negative jibe.

Some issues with the latest Bioware games were not so great.

I am sure even in dimmest bulb in the Bioware marketing and development department have grasped that.

My own personal point is; how about we all move on now?

And again, Speaking for myself Didn't like the ME3 ending. and couldn't even bring myself to finish DA2. Returned it after making it as far as the first few missions in the city.

 

[Epona]

[

Well, those whining about the critics tend to act like they are the gatekeepers of valid criticism. Some fair minded person has to come along and inform them that they aren't the judge of such matters.

No they certainly are not. I would agree most wholeheartedly with you there.

However, they are just as entitled to their opinions on the fan rage against Bioware as the fans who are still enraged with Bioware are of theirs.

Particularly since it's almost impossible to have a reasonable discussion/thread about anything in the Bioware universes without one or more of these detractors popping in with some kind of negative jibe.

Some issues with the latest Bioware games were not so great.

I am sure even in dimmest bulb in the Bioware marketing and development department have grasped that.

My own personal point is; how about we all move on now?

And again, Speaking for myself Didn't like the ME3 ending. and couldn't even bring myself to finish DA2. Returned it after making it as far as the first few missions in the city.

Well whatever, Bioware is dead to me. Hell, even the founders left the company. If I had any confidence left in Bioware before they left, I would have lost it.

 

[PirateRose]

The reasonable, polite people have left that forum do to not liking the current games. Those nicer people have said what they do not like and have moved on. Why stay in a community of something that you've lost appreciation for? Why stay a fan of something so disappointing besides the stupid endings? These people have left those forums to find better games and forums to occupy their time. They have moved away from the dissatisfaction and now spend their time and money on something more satisfying. So all that is left are a group of bitter people who can't let go and do spend their day to day being jerks.

 

[grey_space]

Well whatever, Bioware is dead to me. Hell, even the founders left the company. If I had any confidence left in Bioware before they left, I would have lost it.

Another good point as to the possible ultimate success or failure of Bioware as a company.

And I can definitely understand your feelings on this matter.

In my own opinion, it will all depend on DA3, really.

I'll see what they do with that.

 

[Gitty101]

Can't say I disagree with him. It seems that whatever BioWare do, somebody is going to *****, whine and complain to the point of lunacy. However, I do completely agree with his closing statement. Whilst the community is subject to catatonic behavior, it wouldn't do so if the games being produced completely satisfied the core fans. There's lessons to be learned on both sides.

Stay on the fence people, it'll be interesting to see how the next releases from BioWare are received and what it'll mean for the company.

 

[putowtin]

It has been getting nasty over there for awhile.

The smallest thing get's blown out of all proportion, I remember in my last post over there I said that I prefered Fenris to Anders and getting so much grief, I could have continued posting and try to explain my choice...
but then I though Why bother? Life's too short

I think DA3 is gonna be a make or break deal for alot of Bioware fans, David Gaider is speaking the truth, if people listen, well that's a different matter.

 

[Epona]

Well whatever, Bioware is dead to me. Hell, even the founders left the company. If I had any confidence left in Bioware before they left, I would have lost it.

Another good point as to the possible ultimate success or failure of Bioware as a company.

And I can definitely understand your feelings on this matter.

In my own opinion, it will all depend on DA3, really.

I'll see what they do with that.

Last I heard about DA3 is that they have taken great influence from Skyrim. Not being a fan of Skyrim (it's less RPG than it should be) I am not looking forward to that. Besides, they can't out-Bethesda...Bethesda.

 

[Aureliano]

I know it sucks to realize, but Bioware (by which I mean EA) is trying to sell their games to everybody, not just the internet effete. Until and unless emotionally unstable people stop being the main population of the vocal internet public, Bioware's just going to have to deal with it or risk losing their consumer base.

Either that or stand up to the big wigs and make a game that simply kicks so much ass that the haters get shouted down by the fans themselves. But there's no money to be made in games like that. Right, EA?

 

[Strazdas]

Maybe they should start to make decent games....

they do. granted its not for everyone, no game is, despite how much COD tries, but there is a group of people that like their games.

And no doubt that the forums turned into bad place. it always does when fans feel mistreated. thats why i often go to fansite forums rather than official ones, much better atmosphere. a good exeption is Paradox forums, it seems that everyone and even the devil wants to help you there.

 

[marurder]

He isn't wrong. It seems that the only way people think they can be heard on the internet is to dive into an extreme.

 

[Pebkio]

I think he's whining a bit. It's like when a child complains that he's got a limit to data on the super-powered smartphone. I recommend Mr. Gaider go spend a full week posting on 4chan, Youtube... or even the League of Legend forums. He could maybe voice chat with BOPS2 players during a match.

And I don't think that voicing our wants on internet forums qualifies as entitlement...