Dragon Age Writer Calls BioWare Forums "Toxic"

[Subject7]

Man is that war still going? I was angry at Bioware for like a month, then I got over it. It's 2013 for pete's sake, move on.

 

[Atary77]

@stranamente I see what you mean. While I still blame EA for those games turning out as bad as they have thus creating so much distrust among consumers flaming the fires of trolling and forum hatred, David Gaider does act a bit on the unprofessional side. He should act better than that.

 

[LordLundar]

All I can really say to this is "you reap what you sow". He can't exactly say he's an innocent victim in all this considering what he's put out on the forums.

 

[Sixcess]

ME3 and SWTOR were both spectacularly bungled in multiple ways, so I can't say I'm overly surprised.

On the other hand I can't blame him for avoiding the forums. I've stopped browsing the forums of whatever MMO I'm playing several times due to the atmosphere being so poisonous that if I read too much of it it'd ruin my enjoyment of the actual game.

But this [http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/9/index/1669386/1] remains for me the definitive Bioware forums thread.

 

[Smooth Operator]

You eat what you cook, I have no doubt that it's other people who fuck with your products but when you keep on denying there is anything wrong and encourage an almost fanatic corporate defense force to boot... people will go ape-shit on you.

 

[Nantucket_v1legacy]

I have stopped going on the Bioware forums for this very reason.
I'm going to go out and say it:

I liked Mass Effect 3 & I liked Dragon Age II.

There were problems with both (especially the repetitive environments of Dragon Age II & the ending of Mass Effect 3) but perfection is hard to create. I enjoyed both games considerably and played them from beginning to end (more than once). Going onto those forums is just de-motivating. People will always complain, people will always bicker and one persons favourite part will be another person's least but everything is fire & brimstone on those forums.

Sometimes I think they complain just for the sake of complaining. If I've enjoyed the product why should I complain because I hated the ending? I hated the ending of 'Gambit' but I didn't get onto the Cohen Brothers & Colin Firth and demanded they change the ending. I enjoyed the ride and lets be honest-- it always sucks when you have to get off.

 

[OniaPL]

Perhaps the Dragon Age forums are more toxic than before because you actually released a good game, and then released a sequel which was utter shit, a complete embarrassment and an insult towards the fans.

 

[redknightalex]

BioWare's forums have gotten out of control and, even for the casual reader, it is disheartening to read some of the topics. The only place I venture is for the MP which, even there, you get constant complaints about random users and which gun NEEDS to be nerfed ASAP.

Then again, any discussion regarding BioWare/Mass Effect 3/Dragon Age II dissolves quickly into a caged match of those that have either moved on/liked the ending to ME3 and those that hate, perhaps just for the sake of hating, anything BioWare related. As others have said before me, can't we just move on? I'd love to see how Dragon Age III comes out, thank you very much, and I doubt all of this negativity is helping.

 

[Nemu]

It happens to the best of them. WoW's community is in the toilet, ToR's went there, CoH/CoV went there, so I can only imagine how Bio's went, especially after the ME end and ToR's firey crash.

I try to stay away from developer forums unless I need technical help or am testing, because more often than not, the community (even if it's a NEW one) is filled with utter garbage hiding behind the safety of a monitor.

 

[Fursnake]

A game comapny once considered legendary now makes games of questionable quality and design (SWTOR anyone?), ends a trilogy with a lame ending that needs a new DLC ending to compensate, hasn't come up with a good new franchise in years and let themselves end up in the hands of EA...and he's gonna copmplain about their forums? Sounds more like he's whining to me than anything.

Mass Effect 3 was ok, but I was getting a bit tired of the series by that point as the gameplay was getting pretty same ole same ole. Dragon Age 2 sucked huge dirty balls, I didn't even bother to finish it I was so bored with it. And SWTOR, ohhhh SWTOR you sad sack of shit.

Bioware, maybe it's time to take a break from ME, DA and SWTOR and make a nice new Jade Empire game.

 

[grigjd3]

I continue to see that the one group more entitled that gamers who take to the internet in rage are developers who feel their product shouldn't be judged by their customers. Yes, trolling is wrong. However, I think the gaming media has pointed this out with respects to Bioware to a far greater degree than they have with any other situation. Of course, this may have a lot to do with the gaming media having completely missed just how much the ending of ME3 would disappoint people and their absolute refusal to admit that 95% of the reviews written seemed completely oblivious to the fact. So, in short, everyone should stick to doing their job well and respecting the rolls they all play. At this point, everything else, all the meta-commentary (including the start of this statement), is, at best, meaningless and at worst, just trying to fuel the flames more so they can get more "hits" on their articles.

 

[J Tyran]

"I think there's something to be said there about the level of rhetoric and entitlement among online gamer communities in general,"

We gamers have a fully legitimate entitlement, as customers and consumers we have the rights to quality products. There is nothing wrong with not liking a game and story but when game and story that's nothing less than an omnishambles is released the whole quality issue raises its head. As customers and consumers we deserve better, if a company fails to provide better the fans will be angry.

What Mr Gaider needs to realize is that the fans getting angry and complaining is only the first step, if Bioware keeps dumping on its fans the next step is a wallop to the sales as fans just go beyond angry into not caring and not buying Biowares products.

 

[sindremaster]

Anyone who's been there once knows he isn't wrong.

 

[Legion]

He makes a very valid point, and he actually brings up the reasons for why I stopped visiting them. If you praise Bioware in any shape or form you are a sheeple or a biodrone. If you dislike anything at all then you are a hater or a troll. It's almost impossible to have a reasonable discussion on the forums.

That said:

"Perhaps there is also something to be said about whether the games BioWare makes still satisfy our core fans."

This is also a very good point, and it is also where a lot of the hate comes from. Bioware do not seem to be trying to make games that appeal to the "core fans" even by their own admission. To them they want to appeal to as many people as possible, but the way they go about it seems to be to take all the unique things that stand out about their previous titles and try and appeal to the lowest common denominator.

I am not going to bring up the ending or anything like that, but can anybody really say that they liked the lines Shepard gave at the beginning of Mass Effect 3?

"We fight or we die! That's the plan!"
"This isn't about strategy or tactics. It's about survival!"

It's like a cheesy action movie one-liner but it doesn't even make any sense.

I mean seriously, who did they expect to hear that dialogue and think anything else other than "What the fuck?"

 

[Arcadian Legend]

Honestly, I'm a regular at the BSN going on about 3 years now and I'm inclined to believe Gaider too. The people there, espescially in the ME3 boards are downright ridicullous in the way they behave to each other. Most of the threads are the same tired shit that's been argued to death already and never ends civilly, and I honestly never post there anymore unless I see a friend post in a thread that seems genuinely interesting (which is very rare nowadays I'll admit) from my recent activity feed. BSN never used to be like this, at least not before ME3 was near release. (though DAII garnered some outrage, it was more subdued)

On the bright side, Off Topic there has been consistently awesome with a great little community around it for the most part, and a very large amount of the rabble you'll find in the bigger sections is almost nonexistant there. Probably because the BioWare General section is way near the bottom of the forum list.

Anyway, there was a thread about the blog on the BSN itself. Sit back, and enjoy.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/15501229/1

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

"Perhaps there is also something to be said about whether the games BioWare makes still satisfy our core fans."

And the answer to that metaphorical question (for me at least) is no.

 

[ms_sunlight]

I consider myself a "core fan" in that I buy almost everything BioWare puts out, and I have since Neverwinter Nights, and I've also gone back and played the Baldur's Gate games. I consider some of their titles amongst my all-time favourites. I enjoyed Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3, and if they had problems, well I think the fallacy is to think that earlier titles didn't have problems at least as big.

I want to see them try different things, and I think they've still retained their core committment to choice and storytelling. This "core fan" at least is not alienated by BioWare. By their forums and the absurd, overblown hatemongering on there? Yes, that alienates me, that is the one thing I do not want to associate with.

 

[The White Hunter]

Oh dear.

Are you even allowed to ninja people on your own threads? O-o

OT: Meh, in my experience some BioWare fans are complete tools about the pettiest of things, and at least this guy tells it like it is rather than bullshitting people with EAspeak.

 

[Diana Kingston-Gabai]

I enjoyed Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3, and if they had problems, well I think the fallacy is to think that earlier titles didn't have problems at least as big.

I don't think that's the way to look at it, though - even the most ardent BioWare fan would concede that Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire and Neverwinter Nights have flaws. But you could at least see a trend of marked improvement back then: BG2, ME2 and the NWN expansion packs are substantially better than their predecessors, ostensibly because BioWare's greatest strength as a game developer was its ability (and willingness) to recognize past mistakes and try to avoid repeating them.

By contrast, DA2 and ME3 are poorly looked upon because for all their individual strengths, they represent a step backwards. DA2's companions are wonderful and engaging, but the fragmented plot lacks a strong throughline (a problem DAO didn't have); ME3's endgame doesn't even come close to the complexity and emotional high stakes of the ME2 Suicide Mission.

I think that's where all this anger and venom is coming from: it's the perception that rather than continue to push the envelope and strive to correct their missteps, BioWare is now content to release substandard games while crying "artistic integrity" in the face of any criticism.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

You know Gaider, I might find you an arrogant asshole, but you made a good move here. The BSN is like a 4Chan board without the occasional glimpse of brilliance.