Dragonage The Veilguard - Tween RPG

[Dreiko]

Yes this I agree with, they look dumb. I also was considering playing a Qunari until I saw their dumb faces, so I went with elf chick, which in retrospect seems to be my fantasy game default.

You know those stands they have in theme parks where it's a cutout of a popular character with a hole where his face goes and you can poke your head behind the hole and take a picture, this is what qunari look like. Like some normal human is poking his face where their normal face ought to have been.


I don't get how you mess this up, you had it already.

 

[BrawlMan]

​

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

I've now gotten far enough to get all the companions in the game, which took me about 16 hours. I would have talked about this sooner but I had a business trip which took away a week of my time with the game. There are a few things that really stand out to me about the characters and the writing that really make me wonder if there was anyone doing any editing or review of the content being made for the game.

Firstly all your companions join you without fail or question. Even the final two in which they seem to have their own lives and goals but just instantly drop everything without question to join you even without explanation. Additionally characters will talk to each other with questions like they've know each other for a while even with companions you've literally just met. And there is not a single companion that butts heads with any other one. They all get along, they are all very passive and nonthreatening (include the necromancer and the guy who has a demon inside him), everyone is very respectful and casual with each other immediately.

What do you mean without fail or question, and no explanation?

Spoiler

Emmrich says that he's been able to tell something was going on from far away due to whatever reactions in the Fade, and he was expecting to be approached by someone. After his iniitial mission, once in the Lighthouse, there's a conversation where you can ask him about leaving his teaching behind and if it's alright etc.

Taash is hired out by Isabella effectively, and ends up deciding they want to go along with you. I *believe*, the blighted dragons are mentioned at some point before the end of the mission and that is something that upsets them and seems to motivate them

And the problem with it is like....people don't talk to each other like that. These feel like robots, not characters, and none of the dialog does anything to question or undermine any character's personality or interests. It's honestly kind of toxic positivity that we heard about from within the studio at Concord.

Some truth in this, they're mostly too conflict avoidant, they do get along too easily, though for some of them that makes sense wrt their personalities. Though it's certainly not true that they never question or undermine

Spoiler

There's the Taash vs Emmrich thing, though it's concluded too neatly. Davrin and Lucanis get pretty heated.

To talk about the LBGT characters a little, more specifically Taash. Taash is non-binary, but the game doesn't keep this consistent. Taash is introduced as a she to the player, and several characters refer to Taash as she/her, despite the they/them pronouns of the non-binary. And it's very confusing because it is like the writers can't even keep their own rules and their own characters straight (no pun intended).

Oh now this is just you not paying attention and coming into the game with a preconception. Taash doesn't start out using they/them pronouns, Taash comes to terms with being non-binary within the course of their personal quest. You're only confused because you came in knowing beforehand and didn't just pay attention and see that they decide they're non-binary later.

That isn't even to mention that Taash's whole character arch seems to be based on not wanting her tribe or parental expectations to dictate their life. Taash gets very angry when someone tells them who to be, how to be, etc. Which makes the character's non-binary-ness feel a lot more like a "fuck you mom and dad" teenage tantrum than an actual thing. Combine that with the inconsistancy in the writing of regularly using she/her pronouns for the character and it's like nobody bothered to do any editing or keeping of consistancy in the writing, they just let whatever slide without even checking to make sure they were sending mixed messages.

Fuck this game sucks.

Considering you didn't even notice why they were using she for Taash at first, I really have a hard time seeing sincerity in this, especially in the stereotypical accusation that their identity issues are teenage rebellion.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Overall, game's writing definitely has issues, though I think there's a degree where it's overblown and some people are uh, seeking issues to focus on

Issues that I've noticed that seem valid are that the game is too... 'nice'. Slavery in Minrathous exists, but it's never something you have to deal with except through the Venatori, racism towards elves is pretty absent and not really addressed despite the fact it's elven gods messing shit up. The crisis of faith on display from any Dalish elves seems to be reduced to, "Oh no this is so confusing but the gods are clearly evil," with like no elves at all going to side with the gods. The evil factions that support them want power, but apparently we don't run into any elves who might seek power to like, you know, fix their place in the world. Companions are on the whole too nice, the way they handle conflicts leaves it so there's very little real animosity on display ever, most things that could lead to conflict are handled too kindly and too quickly. The chantry reaction to what's going on is non-existent, the chantry doesn't show up as an institution. Also just overall, any character that sides with the bad guys has very little character development, you never get to really see their motives etc

That said, I think some of the characters are pretty enjoyable. Emmrich's fun, and getting lore from Nevarra is interesting. Davrin isn't too bad and his interactions with Assan are fun, Lucanis is... mostly alright though I take issues with his personal quest's handling. Harding's personal quest also have issues with though. Neve is alright though not my thing, I think her whole detective shtick would need its own game etc to sell itself properly to me, this game just is too actiony and too simple with its quests to really sell a good detective kind of character here. Bellara idc about much, but she's ~fine. Taash I get why some legitimately don't like them, they're kind of bratty, their personal quest can lay some of it on a bit thick, though I think they're not too bad overall and like how their personal quest ends. Specifically

Spoiler

in a game where it feels like everyone gets too saved and too little is lost, I like that their mother dies before they can reconcile on matters, that adds emotional impact that I think you mostly do not get in the game

I've heard random silly complaints about lore online, but I think it's been good to see a lot of it finally revealed. Most of it there's a lot of obvious hints to from prior games and personally find it satisfying to see it finally revealed and tied together. Some flaws here or there, but most seemed pointed in the direction it led.

 

[Hades]

The tone does seem to be a bit disappointing. Tevinter was by far the most interesting nation precisely because it was such a complete hellhole. As such sanitizing it takes away a lot of charm. This extend to the protagonist too who can't seem to get even mildly shady. Roleplaying as a Tevinter supremacist would have been a fun evil run.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

I played a bunch this weekend and I'm towards the back half, having a completed a few companion quest lines.

It's still pretty much what I expected in terms of tone and story in that none of it is particularly good or bad. I had earlier compared it to Guardians of the Galaxy but really it's this year's Final Fantasy 16- starts off strong, is fun to play, but overstays its welcome as the story doesn't do anything interesting with its premise and the mechanics aren't interesting enough to avoid it feeling tedious after a while (I have already dropped the difficulty level- no because I couldn't win fights, but I just got tired of how long they dragged on. I now switch to easiest during side questing and switch back to one of the normal ones for main missions).

I did get up to the stuff with "pronouns" (lol I love that this what people now talk about it, a grammatical term, we are so dumb), and it's all confined to one companion character. And yes it is handled clumsily, stupidly, and my eyes were rolling extremely hard. But no more than any other sub quest line.
While the characters are talking about which pronouns to use and terms like "non-binary," it does feel incredibly odd to see fantasy RPG characters with horns and magic talk like they're on Hulu dramedy. But that is also consistent with the rest of the game. For me, the silliest moment of "fantasy people talking like they're Manhattan millenials" is when the Spanish character is talking about cooking paella. I mean, he's not Spanish, but come on. I think it's more silly and kinda funny that paella exists in Thedas than the term non-binary because the first is a specific dish while the latter is a modern term for a concept that is actually cross-cultural and ancient.

The good side of the story is anything to do with Solas. Yes they confined him (literally) to be more like a Hannibal Lecter role but I really enjoy the side quests that dig into his past.
I also really like Emmerich, his skeleton buddy, and I'm a sucker for the idea of a gentlemanly kind necromancer.

But my romance choice has been Neve- I wasn't gonna do it, it's too obvious, but I can't help it. Tall mystery investigator with a big nose? I mean that is my kinda woman.

Back to the gameplay- it is pretty mixed. The core controls are smooth so putting it on easy to stomp through hordes of enemies can be a good de-stresses and spending a few hours the other day after a pretty brutal morning/afternoon of personal crap was nice. Another highlight was a big important boss fight where I had the default difficulty setting and it was multiple waves of increasing difficulty and I scraped by, which felt good and rewarding.
But then there are these dragon fights which are supposed to be the hardest challenges and they can f*** off because it's that thing I hate- flying around, I can't see where anything is, there's too much crap, and it's all flashing lights and a huge health sponge. *yawn* It's not interesting challenge it's just... volume.

I can't imagine after this game being interested in another "real time + party" combat system, I find the whole thing contradicting itself. It's supposed to be strategic by letting you give commands to other characters which also pauses the action while you scroll through your wheel, but it's also real-time so it feels like neither? I dunno... I had the same issue with the FF7 remakes. Kind of a classic example of maybe it's better to just pick one thing. That's why I did appreciate FF16 actually just committing to straight-up action, even though I had problems with how it handled balance.

 

[BrawlMan]

dunno... I had the same issue with the FF7 remakes.

FF7R at least lets you control the characters even when you give them commands. Not to mention that they have their own fulll and dedicated moves sets. I take it, that's something that this game lacks. FF16's Main issue is that it's a 10 hour action game stretched to a 40+ hour campaign. Then there's the fact that the challenge just drops off. When you're more than halfway through the game and you can't make it more difficult until you beat it the first time around.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

FF7R at least lets you control the characters even when you give them commands. Not to mention that they have their own full and dedicated moves sets. I take it, that's something that this game lacks. FF16's Main issue is that it's a 10 hour action game stretched to a 40+ hour campaign. Then there's the fact that the challenge just drops off. When you're more than halfway through the game and you can't make it more difficult until you beat it the first time around.

That was one of the first big complaints when the gameplay was revealed, that you don't actually play as the other characters. So it's basically an additional ability wheel- you can select actions for them to do as extra weapons.
So that's why I didn't react negatively because I honestly don't even remember if you could do that in Inquisition, so it wouldn't have been something I missed. I prefer just taking each game on its own- like, ok, I can only control my character, which is most games I play anyway- just make it work then. And it basically does in Veilguard. It just limits the skill ceiling/player expression aspect of that game. How much that matters is up to the individual. FF7remakes of course have that as a feature- different party compositions but also the whole materia system, which is one I never been fan of personally and it's more annoying than interesting but lots of folks dig it so.. *shrug*.

Veilguard is doing that thing... RPG "elements" and the combat party is just another example of that.

 

[BrawlMan]

FF7remakes of course have that as a feature- different party compositions but also the whole materia system, which is one I never been fan of personally and it's more annoying than interesting but lots of folks dig it so.. *shrug*.

The material system isn't that hard to figure out from what I've seen. I could be wrong, but I think it's actually easier to do in Rebirth, because they streamlined the system even more.

 

[CriticalGaming]

The material system isn't that hard to figure out from what i've seen. I could be wrong but I think it's actually easier to do in Rebirth, because they streamlined and even more.

It's easier to break.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

My issue with the materia isn't the difficulty, it's just that it's lame and uninteresting. You go to a menu and put different colored circles in things and either try combinations by fighting more of the same fights you're doing 1000x just to get through the game or you do what I suspect most people do with any game- look up how to make a "build" on line and follow instructions. I just find that sort of thing uninteresting.

 

[BrawlMan]

My issue with the materia isn't the difficulty, it's just that it's lame and uninteresting. You go to a menu and put different colored circles in things and either try combinations by fighting more of the same fights you're doing 1000x just to get through the game or you do what I suspect most people do with any game- look up how to make a "build" on line and follow instructions. I just find that sort of thing uninteresting.

Exactly why most people love doing the system. You're always gonna have your first timers try things out on their own or do crazy builds for the sake of it and a challenge. Then you have those online that always wants to compare and contrast different load outs or do things with no items.

 

[BrawlMan]

​

 

[Dreiko]

My issue with the materia isn't the difficulty, it's just that it's lame and uninteresting. You go to a menu and put different colored circles in things and either try combinations by fighting more of the same fights you're doing 1000x just to get through the game or you do what I suspect most people do with any game- look up how to make a "build" on line and follow instructions. I just find that sort of thing uninteresting.

Bro it's just a skill tree that's itemized instead of being locked in place. Just imagine the skill tree as your item menu and slot things accordingly. And nobody should be looking up anything, that is indeed lame but to imply that people do this is just crazy to me lol. You're supposed to try out different things and figure out what works with the unique triangle actions of each char.

And if you don't enjoy playing the same fights multiple times to figure out how to optimize your builds and just...learn the game in a classical sense, learn how to play better, if you don't enjoy that, this game is definitely not for you. Though I can't figure out what action rpg type game is for you if you can't enjoy something as spectacular and high production value as rebirth.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Bro it's just a skill tree that's itemized instead of being locked in place. Just imagine the skill tree as your item menu and slot things accordingly. And nobody should be looking up anything, that is indeed lame but to imply that people do this is just crazy to me lol. You're supposed to try out different things and figure out what works with the unique triangle actions of each char.

And if you don't enjoy playing the same fights multiple times to figure out how to optimize your builds and just...learn the game in a classical sense, learn how to play better, if you don't enjoy that, this game is definitely not for you. Though I can't figure out what action rpg type game is for you if you can't enjoy something as spectacular and high production value as rebirth.

That is part of the reason why I think the FF7 Remake/Rebirth combat system is so brilliant. You can absolutely break the game with combinations of materia to just nuke the fuck out of stuff. But you can also completely ignore materia and get godly good at the core combat. There are videos all over the place of people beating X boss using only Tifa, no magic, no damage, flawless victory, simply from raw gameplay skill.

The system provides so much ways for a player to approach it, people who say it's bad blow my mind because what more could you possible want from a combat system? It's just hate based on ignorance or hating on FF7 because it's cool to hate on FF7 thanks to it's popularity.

 

[BrawlMan]

It's just hate based on ignorance or hating on FF7 because it's cool to hate on FF7 thanks to it's popularity.

Great, it is the early to mid 2000s all over again.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

I wasn't saying it's BAD... can we please distinguish between making a judgement call and expressing a subjective experience/opinion? Thanks.

 

[BrawlMan]

I wasn't saying it's BAD... can we please distinguish between making a judgement call and expressing a subjective experience/opinion? Thanks.

Not trying to rag on you nor correct you, but when you say it like this:

My issue with the materia isn't the difficulty, it's just that it's lame and uninteresting.

Even after you explain yourself, most are gonna assume that's another language for bad.

 

[BrawlMan]

​

 

[Dreiko]

I wasn't saying it's BAD... can we please distinguish between making a judgement call and expressing a subjective experience/opinion? Thanks.

Oh yeah I never said you said it was bad, I just don't understand your criticism unless it's coming from a point where you just don't enjoy games with action gameplay that you play repeatedly to get better at them so you can win in more stylish, unique, extravagant or original ways. Like to me it sounded as though you didn't really care to learn how the system works and just wanted to "get through" the game like it was a walking sim or something and not one of the coolest action rpgs out there.

That is part of the reason why I think the FF7 Remake/Rebirth combat system is so brilliant. You can absolutely break the game with combinations of materia to just nuke the fuck out of stuff. But you can also completely ignore materia and get godly good at the core combat. There are videos all over the place of people beating X boss using only Tifa, no magic, no damage, flawless victory, simply from raw gameplay skill.

The system provides so much ways for a player to approach it, people who say it's bad blow my mind because what more could you possible want from a combat system? It's just hate based on ignorance or hating on FF7 because it's cool to hate on FF7 thanks to it's popularity.

Me, I'm partial to Yuffie, she by herself has enough unique traits that she could be an entire other game's worth of gameplay features all by herself. And she's a ninja too. All hail Wutai!



And hell I was always an VIII > VII person from back in the day, but I do this thing of actually giving games an earnest shot when I first play them even if I'm skeptical, and the original remake actually surpassed my expectations significantly. So while I get the sentiment of wanting it to still be turn based, I just kinda reoriented my thinking and just decided to compare it to at the time their most recent FF which was XV, so in that context it was actually an incredible game lmao. I think most of the hate nowadays comes from two camps, the people who only like turn based games and don't like action games at all, and from people who hate on sony exclusives. Cause VII is not THAT popular any more. The equivalent of VII from the 90s in modern context would be something like Genshin Impact or Fortnite.




Funnily enough, I think this game is also encountering the problem fighting games do, where you have so much complexity and depth that is optional, so a lot of people barely scratch the surface since you can still "win" by just doing only that much, and never delve deeper into exploring all the unique traits each char has and how to make the most of them. People find a crutch and rely on it for their entire playthrough and then complain the game is boring, not realizing their own lack of inquisitiveness made the game boring for themselves. At least with fighters, you see the other people who use your char out there, and so you notice them doing stuff you haven't yet begun trying to do. Here the AI just controls the enemies so it's entirely up to you to figure out a lot of stuff and a lot of people nowadays don't care to actually explore a gameplay system. They just wanna beat the game, not win with style and glory.