Dubbed anime. Why is it so hated?

[Blade3dge]

I'm glad you told me to read your post back here cause you're definitely right. I missed it in my eagerness to scream about my crappy Berserk scanlations XD

Translators aren't the best writers in the world, and they have a hell of a job in trying to relay a story into a completely different language and for a completely different audience. And so much can be lost in translation that some anime just will not translate into English at all. Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei comes to mind...

That said, I just feel like fansubbers' pursuit of accuracy sorta has the same effect as the one you said about dubs. I don't feel like I'm getting award-winning writing when I see an almost-literal translation. In a professional dub I may be getting a less detailed account of a story, which isn't as detailed as the original. But in a fansub I feel like I'm seeing a more linguistically accurate, yet less dramatic version of the story, which is just as bad IMO.

Again, I'll use Spanish. A woman screaming at the top of her lungs, screaming "Salte de mi vida, maldito hipocrita, nunca te quiero volver a ver." sounds heartfelt...IN SPANISH.

When you translate it into "Get out of my life, you damn hypocrite! I never again want to see you!" (which is as close as I can give you without seriously wrecking the sentence.) you're still not getting the full range of emotions because honestly, the language is STILL too soft to convey it. You have to consider context IMO. Consider that this woman is distraught, heartbroken, and angry. Is she likely to use such...well-organized language were she speaking in English? The above sentence, in Spanish, I would translate as "You goddamn hypocrite, get the hell out of my life...I never wanna see you again!" I'm no professional, but I think that adding the stronger language and the extra fluff goes a bit of a longer way in retaining the intent of the character's emotions. No, it's not linguistically accurate, but it works better for me.

Another example...I was up last night while looking at this site playing Yakuza 2. At one point, Kiryu said "Sonna no bodigaado desu." or something close to that. I immediately knew that he was referring to the woman on the ground, being accosted by a group of men. The game chose to use the phrase "I'm her bodyguard." instead of "I'm that woman's bodyguard.", which is the more literal translation, and the one I expect fansubbers to choose. No, the former is not completely accurate, but it also doesn't insult my intelligence and wreck the tension of the scene, unlike the latter.

And your mentioning of "bald" as an insult...Perhaps I don't understand the true level of such an insult in Japan, but if a dub used the same insult, I will understand that it's an insult, and that's ENOUGH. I don't NEED to know that it's a seriously wounding insult in Japan; I already understand, by the sound of the speaker, that he didn't mean it in a nice way. Intonation is key. I don't feel like I lost anything out of it. Yeah, I'll think it's a bit juvenile to use that as a jeer, but then, I think anyone who's wounded by that word, be they Japanese or Western, is juvenile as well.

So I guess my point is that I'll prefer the original Japanese once I can SPEAK Japanese fluently. That way, I can get absolutely everything undiluted, without overly literal subs or truncated dubs wrecking everything. But for now, I'll take drama and fluidity over linguistic accuracy. Again, all of this assumes the dub is good to begin with, hahahah.

Well I find for a lot of subs I don't need that deep an understanding of Japan to comprehend what is being said and find the story much more deep than I do listening to dubs. Call me a purist but its always seemed to be an improvement to me. Also when you hear the emotion in a sentence it more or less overcomes the cheesy-ness barrier, I don't know something about subtitles to Japanese speaking brings the culture to life even if the translated dialogue is boring somehow "Get out of my life, you damn hypocrite! I never again want to see you!" means more with a Spanish woman yelling it than a well translated English line ever could without making serious writing changes.

And that's what I comes down to for me. I suppose I should apologize for making out that accuracy was all that mattered to me because it isn't. Literal translations are messed in the head but the point is fansubbers a writing subtitles for a different target audience than traditional translators for dubs. Fansubbers are not interested in direct translations (there are exceptions of course) but preserving the original text as best they can, in an attempt to retain the culture. Some fansubs would rather teach you the meaning of a word than give the nearest English equivalent, fansubbers would let you know that "baldy" is an insult rather than change it to "idiot", fansubbers do not rewrite the material so that it makes sense to a Western audience but instead try to translate the material in to English while doing as little damage to the original script, as people who watch fansubs want everything that Westernization takes out.

I suppose I just got very dreamy about fansubbers lol, to be honest yeah theres so much crap out there it's pretty pathetic but as a general rule I've found that I prefer subs/fansubs to the english dubbed scripts. Theres many horrible exceptions to this rule but I understand Japanese culture enough that I don't want to see Westernization of an original script, I don't expect literal translations but I prefer an honest effort in preservation which I feel dubs lack, subtitles are good enough, fansubs are a whole 'nuther level which is riddled with landmines of shit but hey =P I'll generally watch the dub and the subs and see which is more interesting then continue watching the anime with that setting...

Or if I love it watch both =P

 

[AyreonMaiden]

I suppose I just got very dreamy about fansubbers lol, to be honest yeah theres so much crap out there it's pretty pathetic but as a general rule I've found that I prefer subs/fansubs to the english dubbed scripts. Theres many horrible exceptions to this rule but I understand Japanese culture enough that I don't want to see Westernization of an original script, I don't expect literal translations but I prefer an honest effort in preservation which I feel dubs lack, subtitles are good enough, fansubs are a whole 'nuther level which is riddled with landmines of shit but hey =P I'll generally watch the dub and the subs and see which is more interesting then continue watching the anime with that setting...

Or if I love it watch both =P

I'm studying Japanese, and I'm getting into the habit of watching subs more just so that I can get used to hearing Japanese words and such. And you know, it's not the practice that bugs me as it is all the small things that bad subbers do that take me out of the experience, like what I've mentioned before. But I've been watching Panty and Stocking, and so far I absolutely love it. And I also enjoyed A.F.K.'s sub of Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei a lot. It committed a couple of the things I said I hated, but I had to forgive it because there really was no other way to get the picture. It's just too Japanese.

There are good subs and there are shit subs, just like with dubs.

 

[y1fella]

Anime dubs are usually haphazard, largely because they're being Americanized by those dubbing and are sometimes receive a half-@$$ed job as a result. To be fair, not all anime are like that and are just as interesting to see in both English or Japanese. But not everything translates well and, because of that, usually result in quirks. People pick up these quirks and it turns them off.

But that's the least of it. Another problem is that people dubbing this have this problem. To them, the term child means the same as idiot, and based on that alone, they think they can get away with anything, or at least make the mistake of treating children as idiots and handle anime with a level of maturity that shows in their work. However, even a child knows if you're cut, you bleed. (Various anime) They'll pick up on things that people will think are too subtle for them to pick up on and talk about it. Worse yet, people who aren't child who are fans of the shows (or at least the Japanese dubs) will see it and think it an insult to the viewers. It is, to be blunt, seen as a degradation of the intelligence of the viewers as a whole and a good way to ruin what some people view as a work of art.

And trust me, some companies do go out of their way to Americanize something once they get their hands on it. 4kids is an example of the extreme. They've replaced Japanese food terms with donuts or sandwiches, or otherwise replacing the foods completely. (Pokemon) They'll take Japanese jokes and turn them into extremely corny and not all that intelligent puns, even on kid standards. (One Piece) They've even on some cases taken characters' reactions and turned them into something that is completely out of context. (Naruto and One Piece) They'll gloss over Japanese cultures, replacing their values with ours. One could argue that this is just to make the material easier to relate to, but at the same time, I think it's a bad idea not to expose kids to other cultures, especially since they're going to be awash in the American culture anyway for what could be most of if not all their lives. 4kids got so bad they even earned the disapproval of the Japanese. You know you've gone too far when you've pissed off another country in the process.

Funimation is also an offender, though they seem to be changing recent years. Still, their older projects show signs of problematic Americanization, sometimes going as far as replacing Japanese locations to completely unrelated ones (Case Closed/Detective Conan). Being a Canadian, I find it embarrassing to see memorable locations from Kyoto being passed of as a part of Alberta.

Voice acting is a problem, too. Sometimes, the actors or actresses will read their lines and sound wooden as a result, just barely trying to sound into the material. (Sailor Moon) Or they'll convey their roles in a way that makes the characters sound cheesy or unintentionally strange. (Kenichi: The Strongest Disciple) And truly, there are voice actors who take great characters and replace their voice boxes with a diesel engine or a squeaky toy. (Disgaea) In it's own way, it's kind of sad, because many of these characters can be truly likable, too.

Race is sometimes a tricky issue as well, because there are plenty of people who all too easily take offense at the slightest quirk. People sued the ones dubbing Pokemon because of Jinx's coloring alone. And once this occurred it started a chain effect that resulted in a lot of recoloring in other animes, including Dragonball Z's Mr. Popo and that one Buggy Pirate from One Piece. Now, I have to admit that African Americans have had hard times in the U.S. They've earned a great deal of respect with what they've endured here. However, I believe that it's not helping the issue if we tiptoe too much around the matter. I mean, what's the point in putting them in anime at all if every instance of them is just going to be glossed over by painting them a different color? Is that not racism as well? I have to wonder.

Getting back to the matter at hand, there are some great dubs out there. Such examples are Inuyasha, Dragonball, Gundam Wing, etc. But sadly, when a person encounters bad or lackluster dubbing it can easily turn them off. It can turn what could've been a good experience into a severely watered down one. Because of this happening on too many occasions for some people to stomach, dubs have gotten a bad reputation. That's why we have so many complaints about it.

(P.S.: I'm not racist!)

Thank you for the long and detailed answer.

 

[MulticolorCharizard]

Dubs have not been noticably worse since the late 90s. Even in the late 90s they were getting good, ever seen Cowboy Bebop? Rurouni Kenshin? Trigun? They have amazing dubs! Bebop and Triguns are even better than the Japanese voice acting.

And these days, Planetes, BECK, Baccano!, When they Cry, Black Lagoon, Darker then BLACK, TMoHS, Hellsing, goddamn Samurai Champloo!

Dubs are GREAT, they are the most useful thing in the world to anime fans, if you do not like dubs is is because youre close minded, a weeaboo, or only watching 90s anime.

(I should note 4kids is the ONLY exception to this rule, they got worse over time, the original Yu-Gi-Oh dub was good and so was the original Pokemon despite JELLY FILLED DONUTS!)

 

[Jesus Phish]

Yet again I post this video because it's so damn funny:

That was epic.

I don't watch much anime anymore, so I don't have much of an opinion on it. However, I'll put one example of why subs are better than dubs with the whole "voice acting" is better thing.

The Neon Genesis movies, the second one. When the EVA goes beserk and Shinji starts screaming, the japanese actor does a much much much better scream than the english guy.

I would like to add, an advantage dubs have is it's easier to get into. Without starting a fight about "well if you cant read subtitles while watching a movie you shouldnt watch it", having dubbed shows lets anyone watch it with ease.

 

[WayOutThere]

I have no idea. I've taken a few forays into subs lately and they have revealed as many positive changes made as negative ones and additionally the voice acting is generally quite good or at least competent. With the exception of children's show (or shows we turn into children's shows) the dub and subbed versions of an anime are mostly the same thing. The anti-dubber's rhetoric is hollow and bizzare and I'm quite sick of it.