I couldn't exactly agree here...AllLagNoFrag said:As alot of you are aware, the "babe slapping" mode in Duke Nukem's multi player has been critisized about by a fair amount of people (not forgetting FOX). After thinking for a while, yes, it is sexist and yes, it is meant to be a total joke (its duke nukem ffs).
If you are even considering to buy a game like Duke Nukem, you should be able to accept the nature of the material.
Sexist: sexism (ˈsɛksɪzəm)
? n
discrimination on the basis of sex, esp the oppression of women by men
This bring me to my point: If these types of sexist games are created for males to play, why the hell are the people that dont want to play the game complaining?
Take this for example, smoking is bad for health, not only for those that smoke, but to those that don't smoke too as they get second hand smoke. Therefore it is valid that those that do not smoke complain and go against smoking. Whereas sexist games that are created which targets males (who are meant to be of mature age) are being criticized by those who do not play them. Yes, it is offensive material to some but, is being advertised as such to warn them. If people are afraid of their kids getting affected, them Im sorry but, look at the day and age we live in.
Discuss.
While I can't blame you for not going really in-depth on this, your argument saying "Duke is indeed sexist" has one very fatal flaw. No matter what Fox News would have you believe, Duke does NOT slap the babe in Capture the Babe. At least not in the way the word slap would imply. Rather, Duke just gives her a bit of a spank to calm her down. While Duke Nukem isn't exactly a role model, words like "Sexist" or "Misogynistic" don't really apply to him. If Duke thought that women were inferior to him or just plain hated women, he wouldn't go towards such lengths to save them.AllLagNoFrag said:As alot of you are aware, the "babe slapping" mode in Duke Nukem's multi player has been critisized about by a fair amount of people (not forgetting FOX). After thinking for a while, yes, it is sexist and yes, it is meant to be a total joke (its duke nukem ffs).
If you are even considering to buy a game like Duke Nukem, you should be able to accept the nature of the material.
Sexist: sexism (ˈsɛksɪzəm)
? n
discrimination on the basis of sex, esp the oppression of women by men
This bring me to my point: If these types of sexist games are created for males to play, why the hell are the people that dont want to play the game complaining?
Take this for example, smoking is bad for health, not only for those that smoke, but to those that don't smoke too as they get second hand smoke. Therefore it is valid that those that do not smoke complain and go against smoking. Whereas sexist games that are created which targets males (who are meant to be of mature age) are being criticized by those who do not play them. Yes, it is offensive material to some but, is being advertised as such to warn them. If people are afraid of their kids getting affected, them Im sorry but, look at the day and age we live in.
Discuss.
It's called favouritism.The_root_of_all_evil said:.tsixes si yllautca rehto eht naht tnelaverp erom gnieb eno gnitangiseD .gnidulcni tsuJ .yllaicepse toNAllLagNoFrag said:discrimination on the basis of sex, esp the oppression of women by men
Ok, then I'll address that instead. They were essentially being accused of perpetuating rape culture and thereby encouraging rape. If someone leveled that charge at me for such a harmless joke, I'd be shocked and offended. Evidently they were as well. They responded a bit flippantly, I suppose, but anyone who would so casually toss about such an accusation deserves a bit of ridicule. As for any reasonable-minded readers who were offended by the second comic, that's a shame (truly), but they weren't the intended audience.psyks said:Please. I said I was summarising a long argument and that was only to make the point that Penny Arcade aren't known for their sensitivity.
Why don't you use his picture, then? Surely that would be more appealing to you as it'd be more in line with your more mature taste in gaming protagonists?Hardcore_gamer said:Not fair, Doom was released in the early 90's where 90% of action heroes still looked like that. The Doom marine in Doom 3 (a remake of the first game) actually looks fairly normal.GrinningManiac said:Says the guy with a steroid-abusing dual-weilding mute space marine for an avatar?Hardcore_gamer said:Because it almost confirms the "all gamers are stupid immature teenage virgins" stereotype that gamers are trying to get rid off?
It doesn't really matter that its a parody, its still stupid and juvenile and not in the good funny way.
You forgot to add "/sarcasm" at the end of your post.Hardcore_gamer said:Because it almost confirms the "all gamers are stupid immature teenage virgins" stereotype that gamers are trying to get rid off?
It doesn't really matter that its a parody, its still stupid and juvenile and not in the good funny way.
I agree that these activists groups like NOW and GLAD spend too much time whining and not enough time affecting real change. There is, however, a difference between complaining and calling someone out. If Duke is indeed sexist, then the feminist organizations aren't doing their jobs if they aren't calling the developers out. There's a reason things like this don't happen on TV (ok, fine, outside of satire). On Family Guy, Peter may occasionally slap Lois just for the shock factor but they don't make a game of it. It's clear that it's a joke and not a virginal adolescent fantasy, which the Duke ass-smacking game clearly is.AllLagNoFrag said:As alot of you are aware, the "babe slapping" mode in Duke Nukem's multi player has been critisized about by a fair amount of people (not forgetting FOX). After thinking for a while, yes, it is sexist and yes, it is meant to be a total joke (its duke nukem ffs).
If you are even considering to buy a game like Duke Nukem, you should be able to accept the nature of the material.
Sexist: sexism (ˈsɛksɪzəm)
? n
discrimination on the basis of sex, esp the oppression of women by men
This bring me to my point: If these types of sexist games are created for males to play, why the hell are the people that dont want to play the game complaining?
Take this for example, smoking is bad for health, not only for those that smoke, but to those that don't smoke too as they get second hand smoke. Therefore it is valid that those that do not smoke complain and go against smoking. Whereas sexist games that are created which targets males (who are meant to be of mature age) are being criticized by those who do not play them. Yes, it is offensive material to some but, is being advertised as such to warn them. If people are afraid of their kids getting affected, them Im sorry but, look at the day and age we live in.
Discuss.
i'm not going to start brow-beating, but let's assume there was a game out there where you played a female and part of the game was feminizing men, maybe only a capture the flag thing (bring the enemy 'flag' or male, back to your base and when 'captured' he is dresed up like a girl)awesomeClaw said:I agree. Personally, i find it hilarious!
Seriously, getting offended by it is just stupid and just proves that you need to grow thicker skin. Duke Nukem is a parody. A tasteless parody? Perhaps. But must everything be filled with taste and story nowadays? Can´t we just enjoy a game that doesn´t even pretend to portray the opposite sex in a tasteful fashion?
Is that too much to ask?
You get the ninja award for the day. OP, that's not exactly an airtight analogy anyway. Duke Nuke'em isn't a public health concern, doesn't start fires by the highway and doesn't cause the streets to be filled with litter (calm down, flamers, I'm a smoker).ThatDaveDude1 said:snipAllLagNoFrag said:Take this for example, smoking is bad for health, not only for those that smoke, but to those that don't smoke too as they get second hand smoke. Therefore it is valid that those that do not smoke complain and go against smoking
Um, the concern isn't whether Duke Nukem the character is sexist or not. The concern is the game positively rewards/reenforces/encourages players for actions the complainants view as sexist.Triforceformer said:While I can't blame you for not going really in-depth on this, your argument saying "Duke is indeed sexist" has one very fatal flaw. No matter what Fox News would have you believe, Duke does NOT slap the babe in Capture the Babe. At least not in the way the word slap would imply. Rather, Duke just gives her a bit of a spank to calm her down. While Duke Nukem isn't exactly a role model, words like "Sexist" or "Misogynistic" don't really apply to him. If Duke thought that women were inferior to him or just plain hated women, he wouldn't go towards such lengths to save them.AllLagNoFrag said:As alot of you are aware, the "babe slapping" mode in Duke Nukem's multi player has been critisized about by a fair amount of people (not forgetting FOX). After thinking for a while, yes, it is sexist and yes, it is meant to be a total joke (its duke nukem ffs).
If you are even considering to buy a game like Duke Nukem, you should be able to accept the nature of the material.
Sexist: sexism (ˈsɛksɪzəm)
? n
discrimination on the basis of sex, esp the oppression of women by men
This bring me to my point: If these types of sexist games are created for males to play, why the hell are the people that dont want to play the game complaining?
Take this for example, smoking is bad for health, not only for those that smoke, but to those that don't smoke too as they get second hand smoke. Therefore it is valid that those that do not smoke complain and go against smoking. Whereas sexist games that are created which targets males (who are meant to be of mature age) are being criticized by those who do not play them. Yes, it is offensive material to some but, is being advertised as such to warn them. If people are afraid of their kids getting affected, them Im sorry but, look at the day and age we live in.
Discuss.
You know why Duke was in this situation in the first place? You know why he doesn't just cut some corners to save the babes and keep his own hide safe? Because the aliens stole the women and are essentially raping them for shits and giggles.
http://cdn.gearboxsoftware.com/dukenukemforever.com/assets/audio/DUKE_Map03_Line_04.mp3
Would a guy who truly discriminates against women show such genuine rage when they're kidnapped? That shit will just not fly.
Oh, I guess it will fly.
It would get some men pissed off, but they need to grow thicker skin. It´s the same as with my previous argument. People who are offended are too sensitive. Actually, that "man" idea would actually be pretty good in a game with a female Duke Nukem! Think about it, you´ll haveto capture the man to bring him home and play to your bizarre sexual fantasies while at the same time spouting one-liners!chinangel said:i'm not going to start brow-beating, but let's assume there was a game out there where you played a female and part of the game was feminizing men, maybe only a capture the flag thing (bring the enemy 'flag' or male, back to your base and when 'captured' he is dresed up like a girl)awesomeClaw said:I agree. Personally, i find it hilarious!
Seriously, getting offended by it is just stupid and just proves that you need to grow thicker skin. Duke Nukem is a parody. A tasteless parody? Perhaps. But must everything be filled with taste and story nowadays? Can´t we just enjoy a game that doesn´t even pretend to portray the opposite sex in a tasteful fashion?
Is that too much to ask?
now tell me THAT woulnd't get men pissed off? It would, big time. Do you think that the 'it's a parody' arguement would hold water? Honestly?
I kinda think that it's a bit of a double-standard tbh.
As to the first point: Yes that blanket statement would still apply, though it would receive far less sympathy and support. In the end, however, what is being discussed is DIGITAL REPRESENTATIONS. Any "person" being butt-slapped (or lynched) would ultimately be a computer-generated fantasy.psyks said:I nearly agreed with you up until this bit. This is a terrible blanket statement to make. What about if there was a game where you played a white supremacist and just lynched black guys? Would that statement of - it's not aimed at black guys so why are they complaining? - still apply? Probably not.AllLagNoFrag said:This bring me to my point: If these types of sexist games are created for males to play, why the hell are the people that dont want to play the game complaining?
That's a terrible false equivalency that Penny arcade have made before. Simply put, misogyny is something that everyone can be influenced to partake in. Killing people on the battlefield isn't.DeadlyYellow said:This seems to be the popular reply that's circulating the other topics.
Time to mooch.
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If anyone's aware of the dickwolf thing, these dudes displayed rather conclusively that they didn't care to understand feminism when they offended rape victims and didn't feel the need to act diplomatically (to summarise a long argument).
THAT SAID. It's incredibly fucking hypocritical for FOX news to come out against discrimination of any sort and I haven't played the game. I get that Duke Nukem is a joke but I don't think that sexism that can be seen as unironic like I've heard this game mode described isn't funny or good for anyone.
I remember that episode, and found it interesting. So I read up on their claim that the study that showed that Second Hand smoke caused cancer was poorly done. And they were right. So another, robust, peer reviewed, reliable study was done. It showed that second hand smoke caused cancer. I do enjoy Penn and Teller, but they go out to prove their point, not to find the truth. Because of that, I enjoy them more when they are debating something that is obviously bullshit, like Astrology or New Age medicine.ThatDaveDude1 said:AllLagNoFrag said:Take this for example, smoking is bad for health, not only for those that smoke, but to those that don't smoke too as they get second hand smoke. Therefore it is valid that those that do not smoke complain and go against smoking![]()
I feel that for better or for worse, it's still a form of art that contributes influence to society. It's the responsibility of each member of that society to make sure the influence isn't negative, and I feel, as I assume you do, that racism and sexism contributes negatively to society. The question then resolves itself to "does this game contribute to that influence?". Neither of us can know that for sure, partly because we haven't played the game yet, and partly because we're not omniscient. That's why debate and enquiry exists.Espsychologist said:As to the first point: Yes that blanket statement would still apply, though it would receive far less sympathy and support. In the end, however, what is being discussed is DIGITAL REPRESENTATIONS. Any "person" being butt-slapped (or lynched) would ultimately be a computer-generated fantasy.
That's not really a straw man and you really just backed up my claim. Casual sexism displayed in popular culture translates much more easily to real world actions than war does. As you said, everyone can be influenced to participate in war, but it was a huge propaganda campaign, as well as nationalistic tensions which were left over from the first world war that polarised people during the second world war. Now, whether or not war games make people violent or polarise them in the same way we saw during the first half of the 20th century is really a moot point since it has little bearing on the argument and isn't at all equivalent to misogyny.As to the second point: You have nice scarecrow [straw-man] there because killing people on a battlefield is, indeed, something in which "everyone" can be influenced to participate. Actually getting "everyone" to do so would require a sociological mastermind, but it could be done. Hell, WWII was as close as we, as a species, have come to doing just that, and that was only 70 years ago! And everyone involved felt completely justified if their side should win!!!
I don't think I mentioned anything particular about the dickwolves thing and I most certainly didn't claim that rape doesn't concern men. Indeed, statistics show that on average, 1 in 33 men are sexually assaulted in their lifetime. The figure for women is 1 in 6. Not that it becomes a less important crime for men, simply that feminist groups are more closely involved.As to the third point: Penny Arcade is so obviously a joke website that anyone who believes the creators of it to be serious needs to get themselves informed, and fast! That said, since comedy MUST have no boundaries placed upon it in order to be ethical, apologizing for anything they have done in the past would be not only unethical but hypocritical. And apparently you think only women can be raped by men, and that men, somehow and for some reason, do not rape other men.
Bottom line: If murder of any sort can be lampooned, then so can anything and everything else.