"dumbed down for the console gamer"
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funny i hear that about Halo instead of half life from console gamersOhJohnNo said:
that halo is the most awesome made gamer EVA! and half life series suck... tho i got nothing against the ppl who are calm about it, ive played halo 1&2 on PC wich i think is okay so i understand the halo fans. Halo is a universe of its own so you could never compare it to half life.i got a PC and a PS3, my PC is my primary gamer platform, mostly because of all the programs and my addiction to Anime's and keeping updated on them
and also because i prefer the controls for some games on my PC, for instane FPS, Strategy etc.. for PC, and adventure, action(depends on camera angle, 3rd, 1st - if its 1st its on PC, 3rd console), driving, fighting(tekken..) its on my PS3 Like Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, imo it belongs to a console Xbox/PS because there arent many controls, and its easier to do the insanely long combo'es, than imo on a keyboard.. (i tried the PC version... the gfx's might be slightly better... but the controls *ugh*)
im not a fanboy of either, i just play on the platform that is for my part that is the best for the controls in the game.
Im just getting tired of the dumped down version of a "game" if you could say it, like in GTA4 you need a freaking monster of a computer to run it on high(i can run it on high settings...but thank god for EFLC wich got the gfx/physcis engine to work better on PC), because they just converted the console versions to a pc version tho with a bit of work... but you can defo feel it. Aswell as Flatout 2 one of the most awesome car games, even played it on PC nothing wrong at all.... get Flatout(3): carnage wich had freaking Xbox controls in the PC version i mean what the hell... no matter what you did it had xbox controller buttons in the menu. and i could list some more games but i wont.. just hope you guys got the picture
the "dumbed" down goes both ways of a game being ported to the other platforms and can turn out shit because of it, wich is very sad, Resident Evil 5 PC version is nothing like the console version wich is awesome. /EV1L
*sigh*Midnight Crossroads said:
At the risk of sounding redundant, my example of Dragon Age is a fantastic example of multiplatform development. The console version gets the game suited to the console, and the PC version gets a version suited to that platform (Higher resolution textures, completely different control scheme, different UI, different camera angle). That is a great multiplatform release.
Developers need to take the time to realize what they are developing for. Now whether it's laziness, pressure from publishers, or budget issues, some simply don't. And that's the developer's fault/problem, not the console's fault.
That's my over-all point here: Consoles aren't responsible for crappy PC ports. Developers are.
Wow, where do people get the "gaming PCs cost thousands of dollars" - the last multi-thousand dollar PC my family had was a 486 back in 1992, and that machine did cost something like $5000.
Every computer I've had since then have been in the 150-350 range, and they have handled games just fine. Sure, I need to upgrade ever 5 years or so to be able to run the latest stuff, but they've generally been able to handle the latest stuff at acceptable graphics quality levels for at least 2 or 3 years after purchase.
Are people confusing PCs with Macs or something? The only expensive thing about PCs is the damned Windows license, which costs as much as the computer itself if you build it yourself. Pre-built PCs have the license included in the price, and obviously are more expensive than what you build yourself, but still certainly not in the thousands of dollars range unless you want ridiculous amounts of useless bling.
Every computer I've had since then have been in the 150-350 range, and they have handled games just fine. Sure, I need to upgrade ever 5 years or so to be able to run the latest stuff, but they've generally been able to handle the latest stuff at acceptable graphics quality levels for at least 2 or 3 years after purchase.
Are people confusing PCs with Macs or something? The only expensive thing about PCs is the damned Windows license, which costs as much as the computer itself if you build it yourself. Pre-built PCs have the license included in the price, and obviously are more expensive than what you build yourself, but still certainly not in the thousands of dollars range unless you want ridiculous amounts of useless bling.
What this guy says, almost to the letter.Serenegoose said:
I'd add though that with console developement comes a greater emphasis on graphics having to be a certain standard. Games with simpler or sub-par graphics are often slammed and many won't look at the game unless it stands up to Oblivion. So if a Baldurs Gate was released multi-platform these days using the old Infinite Engine, it would fail on everything except the pc. I don't doubt that some console players would buy it and love it. But not enough to make it worthwhile, leading to publishers dropping developers.
I liked DA and ME a lot, but the conversations were a massive disappointment. A fact reinforced just recently when I played through Neverwinter Nights 2 again. Now that game has some complex conversation trees filled with traps and tricks when trying to gain influence with people. MoTB made this even better.
I'm mainly a pc gamer and I played through Demon's Souls.... was there a point to that?Stabby Joe said:
OT: I'm really not a pc fanboy or anything but it is increasingly heart breaking to see companies try to "appeal more to console markets".
I'm not trying to make this a dig at any console players but whenever I hear this I know a franchise I love is about to be ruined.
In fact I would like to see mature console players demand the same features a pc exclusive would get rather than just call us elitist pricks for getting angry when a potentially good game is shafted by it's developers.
It means that gameplay is simplified. Not because of console gamers, but because of consoles itself and their controller limitations. Just look how awful Dragon Age is on consoles. That's because you can't dumb it down without ruining the whole game. And if you don't dumb it down it wont be playable on consoles. At least not as good as it can be played on PC. Most console gamers I know hate Dragon Age on consoles. But now with DA2 that will be gone because Bioware will dumb down the gameplay mechanics to suit console controllers. When you have a device such as keyboard and a mouse you can add so much more gameplay elements and mechanics. Best examples are pure RPG games like Dragon Age and The Witcher (to mention the more recent ones). It really has nothing to do with console gamers. There are games that are better played on console like God of War and Devil May Cry. Those games take the full advantage of controllers.
Ok I'm a predominantly PC gamer and even I think this is BS. Fallout 3 is the Fallout Series made through Bethesda's eyes and style if you knew Bethesda were making it and thought you were getting the same experience you really didn't think it out.bue519 said:
Also games are dumbed down for consoles. Although the term does not mean console gamers are stupid. The games are dumbed down because consoles require must simpler graphic options and options in general and require a more rigid control scheme. Although if this follows through to the PC version it is the devs fault and not the consoles.
console gamers are gamers just like pc gamers. so saying "dumbed down for console gamers" is really stupid. however, dumbed down for consoles is appropriate for a few select genres. mainly, rts. consoles are not made for rts at all. its very difficult to be fast when you are restricted by the hardware. also some rpgs, you cannot do as fast transitions from one act to the other when you have to select skills with a d-pad.
however, as a pc gamer moving into being a console gamer, im saying this with love. there are some things consoles just cant do well.
however, as a pc gamer moving into being a console gamer, im saying this with love. there are some things consoles just cant do well.
i have never understood this (i understand the different control schemes arguement, but in dragon age's case) i have beaten to living hell and back dragon age and all its expansions on the xbox and the computer, and honestly im going back to plugging in my 360 controller to the pc so i can use the interface, i dont see what is so bad about it, its streamlined, and if you know where everything is, im a billion times faster with it because i dont have to drag the mouse across the screen, everything in snapped in menu's/enemies/magics/wheel/etc..ImprovizoR said:
what is so bad about it? most of the time im doing 3-4 button taps/clicks per second on my controller since i know where everything is, hell morrigan and my main can't keep up with me most of the time (and this is all done with the xbox interface)
now im not saying that its better in any way, but i seriously dont get what is so bad about it? like i said i've played both versions and when i played the pc version everyone talked it up how much better it was and i saw little to slight difference besides a few hotkey changes and actually having to drag my mouse across the screen to click on an enemy or a menu/choice.
Lets say, oh.. the famed Mass Effect and Dragon age. If you played the Previous Rpg games that Bioware released you would notice the games are alot Grander. Has more content as in items, damagesystem and talent trees etc. Lots of different kinds of enemies with Different abilities and Spells and tricks. Short and to the point dialouge.
So now however bioware is going for multiplatforming for cash cow milking, and i won't be buying any more games of them. It seems to me those games get popular because the console crowd were pretty inexperienced in the world rpg's and probably never tried any of the JRPGs. And i suspect a game like wow has peaked peoples interrest in anything remotely Rpg like that isn't difficult to learn.
So well atari, i hope you make some brilliant DnD game soon.
But well it seems to be the Crossplatform games that are always dumbed down, exclusive console titles like Final Fantasy and Dark Alliance seem pretty huge and intricate with decent inventory+ economy, GOOD rpgs like the pc ones. Also the non Console Crossed PC rpgs are pretty excellent like Risen, Neverwinter Nights, Divinity 2.
So now however bioware is going for multiplatforming for cash cow milking, and i won't be buying any more games of them. It seems to me those games get popular because the console crowd were pretty inexperienced in the world rpg's and probably never tried any of the JRPGs. And i suspect a game like wow has peaked peoples interrest in anything remotely Rpg like that isn't difficult to learn.
So well atari, i hope you make some brilliant DnD game soon.
But well it seems to be the Crossplatform games that are always dumbed down, exclusive console titles like Final Fantasy and Dark Alliance seem pretty huge and intricate with decent inventory+ economy, GOOD rpgs like the pc ones. Also the non Console Crossed PC rpgs are pretty excellent like Risen, Neverwinter Nights, Divinity 2.
ive never played halo so the only reason I would say something of that nature is cause I have played hl2
and im sure if I could have about $350 more money to fork out I would find Halo awesome aswell
[sub]or a decent emulator to play it on *GRUMBLE GRUMBLE GRUMBLE*[/sub]
and im sure if I could have about $350 more money to fork out I would find Halo awesome aswell
[sub]or a decent emulator to play it on *GRUMBLE GRUMBLE GRUMBLE*[/sub]
Concerning bioshock vs System Shock.
I'm not sure if I'd call what Bioshock did as "dumbing down". They're both FPS/RPG hybrids with "dumbed down" RPG elements. Bioshock was much more focused on the action element and ditched the more complex inventory elements. Fallout has a more complex inventory system than SS2 and even that's "dumbed down".
I used Bioshock as an example that consoles could match the controls (minus the aiming, of course) because it brought a depth of gameplay options in excess of the typical shooter and pretty close to the most complex schemes of games like the Jedi Knight series. FPS tend not to be overly complex, apart from the weapon selection (which, personally, I think is overly complex). Most of what I see if the mainstreaming of the genre, making them simple enough for the average player (the divide in skill level pre-console was becoming problematic with FPS veterans demanding greater challenges and novices complaing games were way too hard). The bigger budgets these games required meant they were going to pursue the wider audience. The consoles certainly amplified the trend but I was seeing these issues surface prior to the launch of X-Box.
I'm not sure if I'd call what Bioshock did as "dumbing down". They're both FPS/RPG hybrids with "dumbed down" RPG elements. Bioshock was much more focused on the action element and ditched the more complex inventory elements. Fallout has a more complex inventory system than SS2 and even that's "dumbed down".
I used Bioshock as an example that consoles could match the controls (minus the aiming, of course) because it brought a depth of gameplay options in excess of the typical shooter and pretty close to the most complex schemes of games like the Jedi Knight series. FPS tend not to be overly complex, apart from the weapon selection (which, personally, I think is overly complex). Most of what I see if the mainstreaming of the genre, making them simple enough for the average player (the divide in skill level pre-console was becoming problematic with FPS veterans demanding greater challenges and novices complaing games were way too hard). The bigger budgets these games required meant they were going to pursue the wider audience. The consoles certainly amplified the trend but I was seeing these issues surface prior to the launch of X-Box.
this term is used because PC gamers assume, that because the keyboard is able to carry out more complicated functions, and PC games are able to use more complex control schemes, and keyboards have a lot more buttons, meaning the games can have a more abilities, like using the hotkeys in Starcraft.
The mouse is also a more complicated instrument than an analogue, capable of many more movements, and having three buttons, all of which can be accessed by one hand, using the other hand for keyboard commands
on a console controller, most of the fingers are used to hold it, with a maximum of 3 fingers per hand on the buttons, with the thumb being used for most of the buttons.
overall, the term was made because you are capable of doing many more things at a time on a PC then a console, which implies that console gamers aren't smart enough to use a keyboard/ mouse interface.
to make my viewpoint non biased, i felt that I should mention that i am a PC and console gamer, using my PC to play RTS, and single player FPSs and RPGs
i will play an online FPS, TPS, or platformer on console, because there are many more players, and because mouse control sucks for TPSs, and because the control schemes for many FPSs are better suited for console than PC, and using one mouse button for iron sight aiming SUCKS
The mouse is also a more complicated instrument than an analogue, capable of many more movements, and having three buttons, all of which can be accessed by one hand, using the other hand for keyboard commands
on a console controller, most of the fingers are used to hold it, with a maximum of 3 fingers per hand on the buttons, with the thumb being used for most of the buttons.
overall, the term was made because you are capable of doing many more things at a time on a PC then a console, which implies that console gamers aren't smart enough to use a keyboard/ mouse interface.
to make my viewpoint non biased, i felt that I should mention that i am a PC and console gamer, using my PC to play RTS, and single player FPSs and RPGs
i will play an online FPS, TPS, or platformer on console, because there are many more players, and because mouse control sucks for TPSs, and because the control schemes for many FPSs are better suited for console than PC, and using one mouse button for iron sight aiming SUCKS